Hey guys,

I'm very happy to be helping to take care of Elves. I have a lot of love for the race, and a lot of ideas floating around.

Like Persida, though I'm not quite ready to tip my hand on the ideas I've got floating around in my head, but I would adore to hear your feedback on things you'd like to see for Elves.

We've got a fairly fleshed out lore and history going on, but there may be things you'd like to see. What are they?

And you know what I would like to see? Even though we don't have a support system for it, I'd like to see more Elves take up clans for themselves. When I do see players aligning themselves with an Elven Clan, it's generally Mountain Elf. And that's totally cool -- but we have a handful of clans that it seems no one likes or wants to belong to. Any thoughts on why this is?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Basim.

~Evike

Wind elves seem to be fairly well represented. Having a place like horse clan and NPCs and events will always attract players to one affiliation over another. Post titles would be great so fellow players can find like minded RPers or just as conversation starter.

Yamcer

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"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF

I would think Forest Elves are fairly represented as well. Since Leth Der'iel is near Crossing, but I don't see the fortess as a clan per se.

Regards,

Sortny/Braunwen

I'm not familiar with the GS CM but, even if the options themselves can't be added, maybe optional information could be added instead?

It might also be interesting to see more developed for Celestial/city Elves since, whether by default or by choice, I'd guess the majority of the game's Elves fall into that group. My current main character wouldn't really consider herself one, but as an Elf from the islands there's not much else she could be.

PUNS!
What do elves have to learn before they can read? The elfabet.

I suspect people tend to like mountain elves because they're the most unique of the Clans. In a world where the PCs are the unique adventurers that walk among the peasants, you're not drawn in by community and conformity. If you're looking to place an identify on your character, you want to be that cunning, devious, all-powerful being that wins at all costs; not some nomadic clan or one that hides off in the trees.

I want my PC to be exciting and edgy. That's the kind of image of my PC that I want in my head.

Clans as a collective help to create a large atmosphere within the game, even if people do exactly align themselves with them. Without having all these other clans, there's no base to work your ideals. There's no setting. So any further development that you can place into the other clans I think would be beneficial to the entire race, and I'd like to encourage that..

Scanning through Elanthipedia, sand, snow, and celestial elves seem rather non-descript. Sand and snow live in their particular biomes. Those biomes are harsh. That somewhat fails to create a rich atmosphere. And tbqh, I'm really unsure what a celestial elf is. I'm no racial expert (I can name three off the top of my head who are far more versed than me), but I do think this kind of lore really adds to the value of the game.

Nikpack

MOAR PUNS! If you owned 11 elves, and another one came along, what would he be? A twelf.

The only player I ever encountered that identified her elf as a Snow elf, was Jenealle. I dunno about an NPC's but she was/is the only one I ever knew.

as a suggestion, perhaps something could be thrown in the treasure system or something, wherein short snippets of lore could be introduced (maybe a paragraph or two at most in length). perhaps you find a small book or a note that tells you a bit about X elf clan, or a particular person within X elf clan, or whatever the case might be, but outside of what can currently be found in the books of the libraries. Small lore flavorings I suppose. Perhaps these could be put in the loot of non-combat stuff as well, like perhaps, maybe when foraging you have a chance to find these snippets along with whatever you foraged for. Maybe while mining, you knock an artifact out of the wall that has some lore attached to it.

I think before we start talking about adding options in to the CM, we should at least better define what some of those options are, and why someone would want to choose it. From the start of this thread so far though, it seems like we're heading that way already, which is great. I hope it shapes up nicely.

Blackguard Danoryiel

"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"

>as a suggestion, perhaps something could be thrown in the treasure system or something, wherein short snippets of lore could be introduced (maybe a paragraph or two at most in length). perhaps you find a small book or a note that tells you a bit about X elf clan, or a particular person within X elf clan, or whatever the case might be, but outside of what can currently be found in the books of the libraries. Small lore flavorings I suppose. Perhaps these could be put in the loot of non-combat stuff as well, like perhaps, maybe when foraging you have a chance to find these snippets along with whatever you foraged for. Maybe while mining, you knock an artifact out of the wall that has some lore attached to it.

Okay, in this vein of thought what kind of things would you like to see about the clans that don't exist already? I feel we already have a decent base to work from, so I want to hear from you guys what you think could be built upon.

~Evike

It would be nice to have clear-cut descriptions of the appearances of the various clans as well. Some are very well laid out and others are much more vague.

My wishes are similar to those of others, but I'm going to list them here anyway so you have an idea of what is popular. This is in order of importance to me.

- Appearance. More info in the CG about what elves of the clans look like. Ideally options for choosing clan in the CG itself.

- Naming guide. Have I mentioned I always wanted one of these in the CG too? As much as I love to look at the random options now just for giggles.

- Clan Affiliation. Particularly: Soandso of Zoluren, a Forest Elf. Though I'd accept Soandso of the Forest Elves, an Elf. The latter is just clunkier.

- Clan Locations. More lore on the locations of the clans. If you're an elf from X place, what clan are you likely to be?

- Celestial Elves. More about what the heck these really are.

Finally, for what it's worth, I think people would play more of the non-Mountain clan if there were more events that weren't centered around, well, cities. I first mean that Muspar'i and Horse Clan are just not hotbeds of activity. But also, ALL events I can think of are "let's meet in X city". There are no tribal meetings, dances, musical performances, etc.


-- Player of Eyuve

<I was always basically under the impression that Celestial elves were basically elves of any clan who basically don't follow the clan's traditions anymore and just kind of live in mixed-race, non-elven cities or towns like everyone else.>

It would seem that way, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, this idea jives a little oddly with the fact that Celestial Elves supposedly have a leader (why? what are his duties and responsibilities, exactly?) not to mention quite specific and elaborate marriage rituals (how did a diffuse, non-centralized catch-all elven group spontaneously adopt these practices universally?)

Also, I'd like to echo all of THIS:

<- Appearance. More info in the CG about what elves of the clans look like. Ideally options for choosing clan in the CG itself.

It might be overwhelming or cumbersome for a new player, but yes. I think it should be an option, but not a requirement to choose a clan. Maybe an option to choose later, as well?

<- Naming guide. Have I mentioned I always wanted one of these in the CG too? As much as I love to look at the random options now just for giggles.

This would be helpful. It was only after creating my character and playing for years did I stumble across some lore that the th sound in my character's name doesn't actually occur in Ilithic. Like, at all. Whoops.

<- Clan Affiliation. Particularly: Soandso of Zoluren, a Forest Elf. Though I'd accept Soandso of the Forest Elves, an Elf. The latter is just clunkier.

This would be neat, though concerning the first example, someone who is not as familiar with elves, such as members of other races, might not to be able to tell the difference between a forest elf and a wind elf just by looking at them. (Honestly, titles have always kind of confused me for this reason - which is why they should remain optional; in other words, I'd like to be able to APPEAR to be just "an Elf," and not be forced to choose "forest" or "snow", etc.) In terms of the second option, it could be something like: Soandso of the Forest Clan, an Elf.

<- Clan Locations. More lore on the locations of the clans. If you're an elf from X place, what clan are you likely to be?

<- Celestial Elves. More about what the heck these really are.

Also, it would be cool to have:

- Clan specific racial titles, denoting societal role, occupation, marriage status, parental status, etc.

- More detailed information about clan locations, politics, and interactions. My character plays an elf from near Leth Deriel who is of mixed parentage - his mother was a defector from Mountain Clan but his father is a Forest Elf. He considers himself to be more Forest Elf then anything because he spent almost his entire life in the Endrus. Plausible? I don't really know, but I'm running with it.

- Is Ilithic a common language for all clans? If so, is that plausible, given the geographic history of all the clans? Why is it called Ilithic, anyway?

- What is the forest-elf community and habitat like, OUTSIDE of Leth Deriel? I know they're just supposed to kind of blend into the trees...but really, what goes on out there? Are there villages, towns, communities? Or just thousands of solitary tree-houses all over the place? Obviously other clans need more detail on community structures, too.

- Official, language-specific clan names, perhaps? Like, do forest elves call themselves "Forest Elves"? Would a guy from northern Alaska call himself a "Snow Human"? Maybe he would in his native language? I don't know. Just a thought.

Anyway, I'm psyched to see elves getting some more attention and that GM's are thinking about them. As they are such a popular choice for characters and are so numerous in the realms, they need some extra-robust lore as a platform for RP.

>>Is Ilithic a common language for all clans? If so, is that plausible, given the geographic history of all the clans? Why is it called Ilithic, anyway?

1- Clearly it is, since all Elves speak it.

2- Yes. Keep in mind Elves live a very long time and Elanthia has the capacity for magical long-distance communication instantly. There's no reason the language would have a great geographic divergence, the same as English is actually becoming more standardized across the world as communication has gotten more efficient. Also consider a language like Chinese, where the same written symbols are used to communicate the same messages by people whose spoken version of the language might be heavily influenced by geography.

3- Probably a bastardization of the Haakish (Dwarven) word for Elf: Liitha. Given that most names for things tend to have been given by humans, and dwarves were closer to humans than elves were in the past, humans most likely borrowed that word and it got mangled over time into Ilithi since it was easier on their tongue or some such.

Edit: Reposted because grammar nazis.

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Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus

I would really love to have more clan information out there, as I have always been hesitant to call myself anything other than an Elf without having a more complete back story. I even made sure to buy some clothing and items from the various clans to wear once I figured out exactly where my Elf came from. :)

The idea about having it in our look would also be wonderful.

I haven't looked at our dictionary since my last alteration, but I remember at the time it seemed a bit lacking and really old. Is there anything we can do to update it?

I would like to see some kind of development for Bone Elves... Aside from a shamans rattle. :p At least there are other clans/cities out there to travel to.

Beast Elec Drister

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb

MM1-USN 1999-present

I wasn't sure how to address this. Because I wasn't sure if ... well anyway.

Bone Elves. Are they real? Eh. They are real in the sense that if you believe in something hard enough it will exist.

Bone Elf stuff (clothing, books on rituals) are really more either in the line of propaganda or just "Well, they are kind of a dark clan so let's just make some stuff up and throw it in a book/shop." (I mean really, the stuff in A Cultured Attire in the HE Spider, if I was a self-respecting sorcery-y Bone Elf would I wear ripped tights and stuff from Hot Topic?)

~Evike

>Should I click my heels three times first?

Let me know after you've killed a witch.

~Evike

I wasn't asking for more Bone Elf fluff... That would be a bit counterproductive to the whole blending in thing. I would just like some kind of development. We have necros now... that's part of their storyline right there. It was a simple request. That's all.

Shadow's Hand Elec Drister

"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb

MM1-USN 1999-present

If anything, I feel the opposite and would prefer to see more specific information on how clans look. I can see allowance for overlap, particularly since many characters seem to have parents of different clans. That said, I think it's more interesting for the clans to have real differences in appearances, culture, personality traits, and so on.

I'm not advocating for every clan to have only one look ever. I would like to see less of "they look like any other Elf. I do think that having a general idea of "this is how X clan typically looks" is useful.

At the same time, I think it could be interesting to see why a character doesn't look like the rest of his or her clan and how it affected the character.

On the flipside, it could also be argued that leaving the home village to become a world-renown adventurer won't change one's hair, eye, skin and other physical features so that they no longer resemble the clan back home. But it's not a big deal. As Evike pointed out, the emphasis is on playability instead of rigid guidelines.

I do completely agree that the different looks make the clans more interesting. I've just known of some people in the past who avoided some clans because they didn't feel their character fit a certain look very well. I'm sure it's not a huge reason some clans aren't as popular, but it does happen. I just thought I'd toss it out there since Evike was asking for some possible reasons for it in the OP.

>>Clan Affiliation. Particularly: Soandso of Zoluren, a Forest Elf.

I thought this title idea idea was excellent. Did it seem like the above approach might be a possibility? It looks like that is the best way to do it to avoid something contorted like:

>>Soandso of the Forest Elves, an Elf.

>>Nikpack: And tbqh, I'm really unsure what a celestial elf is. I'm no racial expert (I can name three off the top of my head who are far more versed than me), but I do think this kind of lore really adds to the value of the game.

There is some additional description of the Celestial Elves in Marriage Among the Elves. Its primary focus is, of course, the marriage rituals, but it does give some insight into their outlook on the world.

http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Marriage_Among_the_Elves,_Volume_9_(book)

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Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!

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