Hello friends,
I'm trying to create a background for my celestial elven character that incorporates her coming from a noble elven family. The question is where do elves hold noble titles? Currently I have her family’s residence as being in Shard. However Shard is ruled by Elotheon houses.
From what I understand the last time the Elves ruled any formal goverment or land was during the era of Teiro and the Empire. And of course they were displaced from Throne City which was razed and then abandoned over 300 years ago. So could their still be any form of elven nobility still in existence (maybe non-formal)?
I'm also curious about the hierarchy within the celestial Elven culture? Are there any formal houses still in existence? In that vein of thought, what would be the center of Celestial elven culture? Shard, Leth, or maybe some other place?
What I'm planning so far as a background is for my characters family to have escaped the sacking of Throne City 3 centuries ago and relocated to Shard with a portion of their family wealth. There they maintained their titles and continued their traditions (though titles from a dead elven dynasty probably wouldn't matter much in an Elotheon ruled land.)
Does anyone see any major glaring problems in this background? I want to keep it as accurate and loyal to DR history as possible.
Also is it a stretch to assume that such a family would maintain ties to other displaced noble families and work towards the establishment of a new Elven state?
Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated in helping me flesh this background and family history out.
Thanks,
Player of Aspasia Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the Undojenpelci family, Recruiting Officer of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
PTAH
SHADESLAYER2
Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:25 PM CDT
Is it possible a PC elf could role play the founding of a new clan? Yes, no and why would that be frowned upon if the answer is no.
MOOK1
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 09:11 PM CDT
Celestial Elves aren't really a culture in the way that other Elven sub-types are. Its more of a handy designation for Elves who no longer have ties to their ancestral culture. Many such Elves don't even call themselves Celestial. I've always viewed it as an academic label meant to clarify when talking about Elves that aren't tied to a clan and Elves in general.
This means no there is no "King/Queen of the Celestial Elves" for example.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
This means no there is no "King/Queen of the Celestial Elves" for example.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
YAMCER
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:30 PM CDT
It would be just like any other PC "family" group I'd imagine.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
SHADOW7988
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 09:13 PM CDT
I find this very interesting to read about, and as I haven't heard or read much in new history of the elves, and most of the elven source material I can find was released back when DR first was released.
I'd say go and make something, and maybe create a book and see if it can get published, maybe you'll get some RPAs for it, and you'll definetely get praise from me.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I'd say go and make something, and maybe create a book and see if it can get published, maybe you'll get some RPAs for it, and you'll definetely get praise from me.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
SHADESLAYER2
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:34 PM CDT
Yes, but that's not how I mean. I mean in the official capacity, such as River elves, Sand elves, Mountain Elves... ect. Were not just talking about a family group but an entire culture that has to be developed.
SHADOW7988
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 09:16 PM CDT
Evran that is all very true, however nobility and royality (which is what King and Queen are) are very different in terms of classes.
The very few things I've seen for Celestial Elves suggest it was an after thought, or a oh yeah we should have. I'd like to see more, and possibly a different account. (Just nothing drastically different).
So no go on Royalty, but I'd still think nobolity and a minor culture would be possible, even if they are one of the shortest made groups.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
The very few things I've seen for Celestial Elves suggest it was an after thought, or a oh yeah we should have. I'd like to see more, and possibly a different account. (Just nothing drastically different).
So no go on Royalty, but I'd still think nobolity and a minor culture would be possible, even if they are one of the shortest made groups.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:38 PM CDT
<<Yes, but that's not how I mean. I mean in the official capacity, such as River elves, Sand elves, Mountain Elves... ect. Were not just talking about a family group but an entire culture that has to be developed.<<
Too me that is kind of like trying to roleplay your a king or something... I imagine you could try to pull it off, but most people would probably chalk you up as being an insane person.
Too me that is kind of like trying to roleplay your a king or something... I imagine you could try to pull it off, but most people would probably chalk you up as being an insane person.
HULDAHS-PAL
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 09:26 PM CDT
I'm fairly sure all the clan information was released around the same time, so I don't think it was really an afterthought at all.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
DR-JAEDREN
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:38 PM CDT
That would be outside the scope of Elven lore.
GM Jaedren
GM Jaedren
MOOK1
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 09:31 PM CDT
I suppose you could claim lineage from the nobility of the Seven Starred Empire.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
SHADESLAYER2
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:41 PM CDT
>>That would be outside the scope of Elven lore.
That's exactly what I thought it would boil down to but I guess what I'm asking, is it not possible for PC's to expand on lore?
That's exactly what I thought it would boil down to but I guess what I'm asking, is it not possible for PC's to expand on lore?
HULDAHS-PAL
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 09:34 PM CDT
That. And while the Elven people are set up on a clan system, I don't think its ridiculous to assume they don't have a nobility within the clan. Most clans or tribes have some sort of hierarchy.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:46 PM CDT
PC's expand on lore all the time, creating it from whole cloth however isn't done.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
RANTHIL1
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 10:41 PM CDT
It also may be worth looking into Ralel, and the L'Kirm as well, at least in terms of background and some more "recent" elf-based events for ideas.
On the book publishing end, I have done the same on the dwarven side, and while it is a time consuming affair (can take a while once you have something appropriate to get through all the QCs), its a great feeling to help build the IG lore.
Moon Mages who get hit with HULP should indulge in their Survival Secondary side and run away.
-Armifer
On the book publishing end, I have done the same on the dwarven side, and while it is a time consuming affair (can take a while once you have something appropriate to get through all the QCs), its a great feeling to help build the IG lore.
Moon Mages who get hit with HULP should indulge in their Survival Secondary side and run away.
-Armifer
DR-JAEDREN
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:49 PM CDT
Players can (and do) constantly expand upon known lore. In some cases they even create brand new lore. However, spiriting into being a brand new Elven clan on the scale you're thinking is a bit beyond 'expanding'. The response from the current clans would likely be to simply lump you into the Celestial category with a subset of 'unbalanced'.
GM Jaedren
GM Jaedren
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 11:00 PM CDT
This is the primary information I'm going on from two sources....
<<Celestial Elves are who helped build Leth Deriel and who initially ruled Shard. Celestial Elves commanded the Empire when the Empire still stood. Since they come from many varied clans, they do not have any particular appearance. Celestial Elves are fairly recent, having existed officially since approximately fifty years before the arrival of the Seven Star Empire, a blink of an eye to an Elven Lorethew. Their leader is Nelix..... Elanthipedia-celestial elves >>
From what I've read about the Elf clans, it seems that the Celestial elves, (correct it is more of a designation than a bloodline) are really those elves who have shed their more free-spirited, naturalistic ways in preference for a more cosmopolitan and modern style of life adopted from the various traditions of a multi-cultural world.
They came into existence around the birth of the Seven Star Empire, and were most likely born from those Elven family's who came to rule it and establish noble Houses. Thus logically this would preclude the falling away of old clan identities into a new social order. IE A Celestial Clan.
It seems logical to me that these Celestial elves who ruled the Seven Starred Empire would most likely have developed a system of nobles and royalty similar to those of other races. While I can understand that most of the more traditional/purist clans, probably would never want to adopt something like this, I contend that if ever a faction of elves did it would most definitely be the Celestial elves.
For more interesting information about Celestial elves check out this website dedicated to elven weddings. It has allot of fascinating facts I have yet to find anywhere else.
http://www.royalweddings.net/DR/celestial.htm
But yes, if no one would be offended or take issue with it, I would be willing to put together a book on Celestial elves and present it for approval to the powers that be.
It would definitely be of help in my attempts to pen a backround. :)
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the Undujenpelci family, Recruiting Office of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
<<Celestial Elves are who helped build Leth Deriel and who initially ruled Shard. Celestial Elves commanded the Empire when the Empire still stood. Since they come from many varied clans, they do not have any particular appearance. Celestial Elves are fairly recent, having existed officially since approximately fifty years before the arrival of the Seven Star Empire, a blink of an eye to an Elven Lorethew. Their leader is Nelix..... Elanthipedia-celestial elves >>
From what I've read about the Elf clans, it seems that the Celestial elves, (correct it is more of a designation than a bloodline) are really those elves who have shed their more free-spirited, naturalistic ways in preference for a more cosmopolitan and modern style of life adopted from the various traditions of a multi-cultural world.
They came into existence around the birth of the Seven Star Empire, and were most likely born from those Elven family's who came to rule it and establish noble Houses. Thus logically this would preclude the falling away of old clan identities into a new social order. IE A Celestial Clan.
It seems logical to me that these Celestial elves who ruled the Seven Starred Empire would most likely have developed a system of nobles and royalty similar to those of other races. While I can understand that most of the more traditional/purist clans, probably would never want to adopt something like this, I contend that if ever a faction of elves did it would most definitely be the Celestial elves.
For more interesting information about Celestial elves check out this website dedicated to elven weddings. It has allot of fascinating facts I have yet to find anywhere else.
http://www.royalweddings.net/DR/celestial.htm
But yes, if no one would be offended or take issue with it, I would be willing to put together a book on Celestial elves and present it for approval to the powers that be.
It would definitely be of help in my attempts to pen a backround. :)
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the Undujenpelci family, Recruiting Office of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
SHADESLAYER2
HULDAHS-PAL
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/27/2011 11:19 PM CDT
The books from the Library (quoted in that site) are basically all the information there is - and its the same information on Elanthipedia (all the Elven marriage books are).
The way I view Celestial Elves are Elves that have either moved from their clan recently, to a more "fast paced city life" or who have been born into it, as children from Elves who have moved into that clan.
I think an Elf could identify with Celestial Clan, while still remaining their "birth" clan as well.
I'm not sure where the talk of Celestial Clan ruling the Seven Star Empire is coming from though. It wasn't ruled by any specific group, as the races took turns ruling - and while I don't think we have all the particulars on how the voting worked Elves from many different clans would have been elected. (For example, Morganae's son, Lenvuc, a Mountain Elf, was Emperor twice)
I'm truly not sure what you're looking for. In my opinion a Celestial Elf can be a mishmash of several different bits and pieces of other Elven clans. There are, as we see from books, some traditions they've started on their "own" terms but I think by and large they would choose part and parcel of what they WANT to be identified with/as.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
The way I view Celestial Elves are Elves that have either moved from their clan recently, to a more "fast paced city life" or who have been born into it, as children from Elves who have moved into that clan.
I think an Elf could identify with Celestial Clan, while still remaining their "birth" clan as well.
I'm not sure where the talk of Celestial Clan ruling the Seven Star Empire is coming from though. It wasn't ruled by any specific group, as the races took turns ruling - and while I don't think we have all the particulars on how the voting worked Elves from many different clans would have been elected. (For example, Morganae's son, Lenvuc, a Mountain Elf, was Emperor twice)
I'm truly not sure what you're looking for. In my opinion a Celestial Elf can be a mishmash of several different bits and pieces of other Elven clans. There are, as we see from books, some traditions they've started on their "own" terms but I think by and large they would choose part and parcel of what they WANT to be identified with/as.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
ANOUSHKA
Re: Clans and stuff
07/05/2011 06:52 PM CDT
If you were to attempt it, it seems to me that beginning with a family-sized clan would be one method. If you've been reading about the various clans, you'll see that they all splintered off at various points of history. If you cannot get a small, family-sized group to agree to customs that differ from those of existing clans, it seems your success of a new clan is unlikely as well.
MOOK1
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 01:31 AM CDT
The previous snippet about celestial elves being part of the founding of the empire is likely the source of the confusion.
I've always viewed Celestial Elves as having no political or cultural structures of their own, instead integrating themselves into the political and social structures around them.
Re: dual clans: My elf is celestial with river elf heritage. He doesn't actively identify himself as either, for different reasons, but accepts both labels.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
I've always viewed Celestial Elves as having no political or cultural structures of their own, instead integrating themselves into the political and social structures around them.
Re: dual clans: My elf is celestial with river elf heritage. He doesn't actively identify himself as either, for different reasons, but accepts both labels.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 11:00 AM CDT
<<I've always viewed Celestial Elves as having no political or cultural structures of their own, instead integrating themselves into the political and social structures around them.>>
I think that is a reasonable assumption about many Celestial elves. In reality many more are probably added to the Celestial elf numbers every year. All you need to do is no longer identify or align yourself with your blood-clan.
I'm just suggesting that a hierarchy of nobility and title could have easily evolved among the Celestials in the period of the Empire, due to their willingness to adopt and assimilate foreign ways. After all they were the ones who commanded it.
I would think most of the other clans probably found the ways of the Celestials distasteful, and crass due to their cosmopolitan lifestyles and apparent rejection of a nature based manner of life. Which could be the reason why only the Celestials seemed to dominate the Empire.
Those from the other clans who chose to be a part of this would mostly likely be considered Celestial elves themselves.
Player of Aspasia Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith
I think that is a reasonable assumption about many Celestial elves. In reality many more are probably added to the Celestial elf numbers every year. All you need to do is no longer identify or align yourself with your blood-clan.
I'm just suggesting that a hierarchy of nobility and title could have easily evolved among the Celestials in the period of the Empire, due to their willingness to adopt and assimilate foreign ways. After all they were the ones who commanded it.
I would think most of the other clans probably found the ways of the Celestials distasteful, and crass due to their cosmopolitan lifestyles and apparent rejection of a nature based manner of life. Which could be the reason why only the Celestials seemed to dominate the Empire.
Those from the other clans who chose to be a part of this would mostly likely be considered Celestial elves themselves.
Player of Aspasia Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith
DRTYPRIOR
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 02:54 PM CDT
As was already mentioned, the Empire wasn't really run by celestial elves...
The way I see it, these elves were born outside of a clan, or perhaps were born in a clan and chose to leave it for the cities.
The very idea of a celestial elf, to me, precludes the thought of a hierarchy. These elves most likely assimilate to the society they choose to live in.
For example, elves who choose to live in Shard would most likely serve the Ferdahl. Perhaps they might still hold some homage to the Elven Council.
The player elves you see in Theren, holding titles and positions in the Guard, or the Calvary, are celestial elves whether they claim to be or not. They, one would think, serve the Baron.
You see, there really is no lineage of nobility for a celestial elf.
The way I see it, these elves were born outside of a clan, or perhaps were born in a clan and chose to leave it for the cities.
The very idea of a celestial elf, to me, precludes the thought of a hierarchy. These elves most likely assimilate to the society they choose to live in.
For example, elves who choose to live in Shard would most likely serve the Ferdahl. Perhaps they might still hold some homage to the Elven Council.
The player elves you see in Theren, holding titles and positions in the Guard, or the Calvary, are celestial elves whether they claim to be or not. They, one would think, serve the Baron.
You see, there really is no lineage of nobility for a celestial elf.
SORTIK
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 03:54 PM CDT
I hope this is not terribly off topic, but it addresses some of the comments made in the thread:
A strong argument could be made that the most political clan of Elves is the Mountain Clan. In addition, they have royalty, nobility, et cetera.
A strong argument could be made that the most political clan of Elves is the Mountain Clan. In addition, they have royalty, nobility, et cetera.
DRTYPRIOR
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 04:14 PM CDT
>> A strong argument could be made that the most political clan of Elves is the Mountain Clan. In addition, they have royalty, nobility, et cetera.
This is true, and it is said Morganae is the true leader of the elves, despite the Elven Council's claim.
This is true, and it is said Morganae is the true leader of the elves, despite the Elven Council's claim.
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 04:23 PM CDT
<<As was already mentioned, the Empire wasn't really run by celestial elves...>>
If what you're saying is true... then why do the sources say otherwise?
Player of Aspasia Aluris Darkbrook
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
If what you're saying is true... then why do the sources say otherwise?
Player of Aspasia Aluris Darkbrook
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
DRTYPRIOR
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 04:34 PM CDT
>> If what you're saying is true... then why do the sources say otherwise?
I would assert that those sources are wrong. The same source states that they initially ruled Shard - yet the city was built by an Elothean and Morganae -for- Elotheans. An elf has never ruled Shard.
I would assert that those sources are wrong. The same source states that they initially ruled Shard - yet the city was built by an Elothean and Morganae -for- Elotheans. An elf has never ruled Shard.
HAPLO82
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 04:41 PM CDT
A lot of the original lore has been modified/developed/explained better. The Elven Folk is certainly not the end all be all, nor is it remotely the authority.
Like a previous poster stated, if you would like to claim ties to an imaginary noble house of Celestial Elves, you're going to have to do it within the confines of the pre-established governments. Pick your province/city and go from there.
The easier route and probably the one with richer sources and more verity is to choose an actual clan and build from their current structure. Wind Elves have a Chief as do some others and Mountain Elves have an extensive political structure.
Good luck.
-Coralin
Like a previous poster stated, if you would like to claim ties to an imaginary noble house of Celestial Elves, you're going to have to do it within the confines of the pre-established governments. Pick your province/city and go from there.
The easier route and probably the one with richer sources and more verity is to choose an actual clan and build from their current structure. Wind Elves have a Chief as do some others and Mountain Elves have an extensive political structure.
Good luck.
-Coralin
DR-JAEDREN
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 07:55 PM CDT
<<I've always viewed Celestial Elves as having no political or cultural structures of their own, instead integrating themselves into the political and social structures around them.>>
^ This. That said, assuming you don't go crazyspaceangel on it, I don't think you'd be out of line with a reasonable backstory explaining the nobility.
GM Jaedren
^ This. That said, assuming you don't go crazyspaceangel on it, I don't think you'd be out of line with a reasonable backstory explaining the nobility.
GM Jaedren
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/28/2011 10:43 PM CDT
<<As was already mentioned, the Empire wasn't really run by celestial elves...>>
If what you're saying is true... then why do the sources say otherwise?
Player of Aspasia Aluris Darkbrook
From "The Empire of the Seven-Pointed Star, also known as the Fallen Empire" book, written specifically about the rise and fall of the Empire states:
History of Empire
There were seven ruling Houses, one of each race. Each House ruled in its turn for seven years and then the scepter passed to the next House in peace and good order.
As someone said, at least twice when it was the elven house’s turn to rule it was Mountain clan, and they went so far as to move the seat of power to Mountain Clan, during Arcadius' rule.
Perhaps as Celestials claim origins in all the clans they extrapolated that they were therefore mostly in charge when it was the elven house turn.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 01:37 PM CDT
<<Perhaps as Celestials claim origins in all the clans they extrapolated that they were therefore mostly in charge when it was the elven house turn.>>
Good point. One would assume that those of the Mountain clan who came to govern the Empire would have to leave their old lands and ways of life behind to sit and rule. This would indeed seem to imply that many of them, and probably there descendants became "Celestial-ized", to coin a term. Thus leading to the idea that Celestials ran the Empire and governed on behalf of the Elven people.
Really a Celestial is an elf of any clan who no longer identifies with or adheres to the lifestyle of their former clan. Adopting instead, a more modern, metropolitan lifestyle; kinda what you'd expect from an elf turned Emperor... So these Mountain elf rulers may very well have been considered to be Celestial by their kin, by the end of their reign.
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the the Darkbrook Family, Recruiting Officer of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
Good point. One would assume that those of the Mountain clan who came to govern the Empire would have to leave their old lands and ways of life behind to sit and rule. This would indeed seem to imply that many of them, and probably there descendants became "Celestial-ized", to coin a term. Thus leading to the idea that Celestials ran the Empire and governed on behalf of the Elven people.
Really a Celestial is an elf of any clan who no longer identifies with or adheres to the lifestyle of their former clan. Adopting instead, a more modern, metropolitan lifestyle; kinda what you'd expect from an elf turned Emperor... So these Mountain elf rulers may very well have been considered to be Celestial by their kin, by the end of their reign.
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the the Darkbrook Family, Recruiting Officer of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 01:42 PM CDT
Is there anything known, or written about how Elven nobility would be set up? If not I can whip something up that would be unique to an Elven social hierarchy and submit it. But I don't want to contradict or infringe on something already understood or designed. Also anyone know of any good background sources I could consult for this project?
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the Darkbrook family, Recruiting Officer of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook, Defender of the Faith, Master Paladin of the Darkbrook family, Recruiting Officer of the Theren Guard
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
SORTIK
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 03:22 PM CDT
It may or may not be unique to the Mountain Clan, but there is a book in the Shard library about the Mountain Elves, which explains nobility in the clan.
ANOUSHKA
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 04:53 PM CDT
The Mountain Elf who ruled the Empire was, as I believe has been said, a son of Queen Morganae. It seems unlikely that a prince of the Mountain Elves would abandon his culture and former lifestyle.
It's also worth noting that not all of the clans are "close to nature" and that their members would not necessarily become more modern and metropolitan by leaving their clans.
It's also worth noting that not all of the clans are "close to nature" and that their members would not necessarily become more modern and metropolitan by leaving their clans.
HULDAHS-PAL
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 05:04 PM CDT
| The Mountain Elf who ruled the Empire was, as I believe has been said, a son of Queen Morganae. It seems unlikely that a prince of the Mountain Elves would abandon his culture and former lifestyle. |
| It's also worth noting that not all of the clans are "close to nature" and that their members would not necessarily become more modern and metropolitan by leaving their clans. |
Definitely. Just because an Elf goes out "into the world" does not mean they leave anything of their former clan behind. Just like if I went to France, I'd still be American (kind of a poor example, but kind of the idea, at least).
Think of it as being sort of like an "emissary" of their clan/people. They want to go out into the world. For whatever reason, and they still adhere as much as possible to their clan ties, structure and hierarchy.
Nor do I think all Elven clans are going to have the same structure, or nobility, so if you are going to try to write a book on it, it should focus on either one clan or take into account that clan structures are different. For example, River Elves would have a completely different power structure, tiered hierarchy (if really, any) than Mountain Elves just because of the nature of how both clans work.
Additionally, I don't think you're going to get much in the way of Yes or No from a GM on what you should or shouldn't write. In my experience you write it and if it screws with some back end lore they tell you or it gets changed and/or omitted.
__
AIM: Ysselt
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Dragon's Breath [db] from a scroll and must maintain at least somewhat less than half your normal attunement to keep it.
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 09:24 PM CDT
This is a very helpful discussion, and I like that everyone here has allot of background on this subject. But I will have to respectfully disagree with a few of you
<<The Mountain Elf who ruled the Empire was, as I believe has been said, a son of Queen Morganae. It seems unlikely that a prince of the Mountain Elves would abandon his culture and former lifestyle.>>
Not intentionally no. However as we can see in RL, when a person leaves his roots and goes on to fame and fortune, they tend to change. Their views align and conform to the realities of their new place. Their habits, way of thinking changes too.
Keep in mind this King would be leaving his homeland to rule from Throne city. And his reign would theoretically be centuries long due to the lifespan of an Elf. I would contend this could indeed change him and his family, not to mention the children that may be born and raised there, he may not willingly reject his clan or culture. But he may find himself slowly assimilating trends and traditions from various other cultures and eventually watch his strict adherence to his own ways slowly fade and die away as their importance become irrelevant in the giant melting-pot of Throne City.
<<It's also worth noting that not all of the clans are "close to nature" and that their members would not necessarily become more modern and metropolitan by leaving their clans.>>
From what I've read of elf culture, the Celestial's are called "City Elves" for a reason... As an example, I think we may be talking about the difference between Amish and Mennonite, within the Elf clans. Mennonite's are much more 'modern' than Amish, but still a far cry from your common Metropolitan New Yorker.
<<Definitely. Just because an Elf goes out "into the world" does not mean they leave anything of their former clan behind. Just like if I went to France, I'd still be American (kind of a poor example, but kind of the idea, at least).>>
Yes but if I were to live in France for centuries, I'm certain I would change quite a bit. Eventually these Kings may have spent more of their lives in Throne City than in their own homeland. Not to mention their families may have chosen to remain in Throne City, particularly after the passage of centuries and possibly having established a home and way of life there.
Also I don't think the rejection of a strict adherence to their old culture requires that they forget and choose to disavow their heritage. I am fourth generation American and just a regular person, but I still know that I'm of Scottish/Irish descent and while I don't identify with that heritage, I still know it and find some pride in it.
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook,
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
<<The Mountain Elf who ruled the Empire was, as I believe has been said, a son of Queen Morganae. It seems unlikely that a prince of the Mountain Elves would abandon his culture and former lifestyle.>>
Not intentionally no. However as we can see in RL, when a person leaves his roots and goes on to fame and fortune, they tend to change. Their views align and conform to the realities of their new place. Their habits, way of thinking changes too.
Keep in mind this King would be leaving his homeland to rule from Throne city. And his reign would theoretically be centuries long due to the lifespan of an Elf. I would contend this could indeed change him and his family, not to mention the children that may be born and raised there, he may not willingly reject his clan or culture. But he may find himself slowly assimilating trends and traditions from various other cultures and eventually watch his strict adherence to his own ways slowly fade and die away as their importance become irrelevant in the giant melting-pot of Throne City.
<<It's also worth noting that not all of the clans are "close to nature" and that their members would not necessarily become more modern and metropolitan by leaving their clans.>>
From what I've read of elf culture, the Celestial's are called "City Elves" for a reason... As an example, I think we may be talking about the difference between Amish and Mennonite, within the Elf clans. Mennonite's are much more 'modern' than Amish, but still a far cry from your common Metropolitan New Yorker.
<<Definitely. Just because an Elf goes out "into the world" does not mean they leave anything of their former clan behind. Just like if I went to France, I'd still be American (kind of a poor example, but kind of the idea, at least).>>
Yes but if I were to live in France for centuries, I'm certain I would change quite a bit. Eventually these Kings may have spent more of their lives in Throne City than in their own homeland. Not to mention their families may have chosen to remain in Throne City, particularly after the passage of centuries and possibly having established a home and way of life there.
Also I don't think the rejection of a strict adherence to their old culture requires that they forget and choose to disavow their heritage. I am fourth generation American and just a regular person, but I still know that I'm of Scottish/Irish descent and while I don't identify with that heritage, I still know it and find some pride in it.
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook,
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
SORTIK
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 10:04 PM CDT
>>Keep in mind this King would be leaving his homeland to rule from Throne city. And his reign would theoretically be centuries long due to the lifespan of an Elf.
Emperors had terms of seven years, according to the timeline.
Emperors had terms of seven years, according to the timeline.
DRTYPRIOR
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 10:05 PM CDT
Your entire argument seems to be predicated on the a lifelong holding of the Empire's seat, when in fact it only lasted seven years per race.
A drop in the bucket for an elf, and hardly enough time to make them forget their clan.
A drop in the bucket for an elf, and hardly enough time to make them forget their clan.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/29/2011 10:13 PM CDT
As earlier explained, the ruling house only ruled for 7 years, not centuries.
The emperor was appointed as a representative by their deligation. The political machinations behind the scenes of each clan, as underlined by various incidents with Morganae and the Mountain Clan, indicate that during the rule of each Emperor there was heavy influence for everything in their own clan's best interest.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
PTAH
Re: Help with celestial Elven backround
03/30/2011 06:08 PM CDT
<<As earlier explained, the ruling house only ruled for 7 years, not centuries. >>
Oh sure bring the facts into a discussion, that's fair! Thbbbttttt!!!
Okay I concede the point on that. Everyone has been very helpful. I'll keep looking into things, and see about submitting something that conforms to pre-existing history. Thanks for the help everyone!
As an aside what source would be considered the primary authority on Elves in DR?
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
Oh sure bring the facts into a discussion, that's fair! Thbbbttttt!!!
Okay I concede the point on that. Everyone has been very helpful. I'll keep looking into things, and see about submitting something that conforms to pre-existing history. Thanks for the help everyone!
As an aside what source would be considered the primary authority on Elves in DR?
Player of Aspasia E'Aluris Darkbrook
<<Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.>>
