Wow, these changes rock. They've made combat a lot faster and more fun. I'm actually casting at my cap in PvE in Test where I rarely do in prime, and I feel like less of a mage since I can do other things while prepping halt/SF/shatter than harness, charge camb, etc. Also, mana management is a breeze compared to prime.
Were cyclics supposed to be slashed as well? Not that I'm complaining. The fact that I can actually cast TR at my personal best and maintain it while casting other spells is damn nice. I'm really hoping that's intended, but it feels like one of those too good to be true things.
TM findings were:
10 100 mana SMH (23 sec target) = 230 seconds and 1000 mana to kill 4 drakes
5 50 mana rebukes (15 sec target) = 300 seconds and 1000 mana to kill 4 drakes
5 50 mana FST (10 sec target) = 200 seconds and 1000 mana to kill 4 drakes
The takeaway: SMH kills faster than rebuke, but even then I found it less satisfying killing with SMH than rebuke. Maybe it's the long target time or the fact that I can kill 4 targets faster by other means (FST or weapons). Maybe it was that rebuke also knocks down, so it adds that extra fun element. Not sure, but... That's really the only negative I have for the stuff that saw changes. I may still pick up SMH since it's 1 slot now, but that's only because I have slots to spare. If I didn't, I'd probably take a feat over SMH.
Everything else felt great. I'm very excited for when augmentation spells get the same mana reevaluation.
2DUMBARSE
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/27/2016 03:48 PM CDT
>>Wow, these changes rock. They've made combat a lot faster and more fun.
Glad to hear it.
>>Were cyclics supposed to be slashed as well? Not that I'm complaining. The fact that I can actually cast TR at my personal best and maintain it while casting other spells is damn nice. I'm really hoping that's intended, but it feels like one of those too good to be true things.
I dropped the base cost for augmentation/utility/warding cycles (vs debilitation or TM). Are the numbers finalized? No. Might specific spells need adjustment one way or another as far as pulse frequency and whatnot? Yes.
Would I like to do some major changes to cyclics down the line (fairly far down the line...) because I'm not a fan of the current system? Yes.
Those caveats aside, yes, this is absolutely intended.
>>I'm very excited for when augmentation spells get the same mana reevaluation.
Unless you mean the paladin specific issue I've been discussing in another thread (Where Paladins have a lot of 1 slot buffs) there's no further plans to adjust the mana costs of non TM/Debil spells. TM and Debil were dropped because they're spells you're intended to cast MUCH more frequently than a buff spell.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Glad to hear it.
>>Were cyclics supposed to be slashed as well? Not that I'm complaining. The fact that I can actually cast TR at my personal best and maintain it while casting other spells is damn nice. I'm really hoping that's intended, but it feels like one of those too good to be true things.
I dropped the base cost for augmentation/utility/warding cycles (vs debilitation or TM). Are the numbers finalized? No. Might specific spells need adjustment one way or another as far as pulse frequency and whatnot? Yes.
Would I like to do some major changes to cyclics down the line (fairly far down the line...) because I'm not a fan of the current system? Yes.
Those caveats aside, yes, this is absolutely intended.
>>I'm very excited for when augmentation spells get the same mana reevaluation.
Unless you mean the paladin specific issue I've been discussing in another thread (Where Paladins have a lot of 1 slot buffs) there's no further plans to adjust the mana costs of non TM/Debil spells. TM and Debil were dropped because they're spells you're intended to cast MUCH more frequently than a buff spell.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/27/2016 03:55 PM CDT
Raesh - I played with the changes and overall I really like the feel. I fired up my 'standard' training script, which does constant debils/TM/Cyclics, while keeping buffs up and it looked/felt very solid.
The change to Debil costs felt like they might be a little too much, BUT, Paladins ONLY have single target Debil spells so we're playing with the cheapest of the cheap there. The TM changes felt okay, though I was surprised SMH stayed at 100 mana (not complaining, just expected it to be 150). Rebuke and FST (and Geyser) seemed about right cost/effect wise.
The change to our cyclics was a shock. I did not expect them to get cheaper, but between the change to mana (especially on the tert end of the scale) as well as the lower mana cost, I actually felt like using TR over min (for the balance bonus) wasn't a bad choice. In light of the history of paladins complaining about this spell, this goes a LONG way to making it feel more viable, thank you.
Samsaren
The change to Debil costs felt like they might be a little too much, BUT, Paladins ONLY have single target Debil spells so we're playing with the cheapest of the cheap there. The TM changes felt okay, though I was surprised SMH stayed at 100 mana (not complaining, just expected it to be 150). Rebuke and FST (and Geyser) seemed about right cost/effect wise.
The change to our cyclics was a shock. I did not expect them to get cheaper, but between the change to mana (especially on the tert end of the scale) as well as the lower mana cost, I actually felt like using TR over min (for the balance bonus) wasn't a bad choice. In light of the history of paladins complaining about this spell, this goes a LONG way to making it feel more viable, thank you.
Samsaren
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/27/2016 04:02 PM CDT
>>The TM changes felt okay, though I was surprised SMH stayed at 100 mana (not complaining, just expected it to be 150).
You must have missed that I dropped the costs of AoEs a bit earlier - it was mentioned over on the Warrior Mage forums.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
You must have missed that I dropped the costs of AoEs a bit earlier - it was mentioned over on the Warrior Mage forums.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/27/2016 04:57 PM CDT
>>Warrior Mage forums.
That explains it, haven't checked them today.
Samsaren
That explains it, haven't checked them today.
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/27/2016 06:52 PM CDT
>Unless you mean the paladin specific issue I've been discussing in another thread (Where Paladins have a lot of 1 slot buffs) there's no further plans to adjust the mana costs of non TM/Debil spells. TM and Debil were dropped because they're spells you're intended to cast MUCH more frequently than a buff spell.
Ahh, gotcha. I misread a post in another forum. That makes sense; buffs do last a lot longer, and the changes to mana regen help with buffing, too, indirectly.
Ahh, gotcha. I misread a post in another forum. That makes sense; buffs do last a lot longer, and the changes to mana regen help with buffing, too, indirectly.
LENNONJON
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 03:22 AM CDT
I popped into test to play with the changes a bit.
Overall the current changes were really great. I was able to maintain each of the cyclic spells and still cast other spells with no problem. I do, however, echo Samasaren's view about SMH vs. Rebuke. If the prep time of SMH were dropped a bit it might be a more useful spell. Is there a reason it's prep time isn't on-par with Rebuke? Is it because it's AOE?
I do want to mention that it seems as if either the rate of mana regen is too fast, or the pulsing of the cyclics are too slow. I was able to keep HOW up and cast all my normal buffs without my attunement dropping below 92%. With TR up and just standing there my attunement would only drop to 99% with each pulse then be back to 100% a second later. While I am likely toward the upper end of the spectrum and I like these results, I'd hate to get excited about these changes only to find that there was some calculation mistake somewhere.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
Overall the current changes were really great. I was able to maintain each of the cyclic spells and still cast other spells with no problem. I do, however, echo Samasaren's view about SMH vs. Rebuke. If the prep time of SMH were dropped a bit it might be a more useful spell. Is there a reason it's prep time isn't on-par with Rebuke? Is it because it's AOE?
I do want to mention that it seems as if either the rate of mana regen is too fast, or the pulsing of the cyclics are too slow. I was able to keep HOW up and cast all my normal buffs without my attunement dropping below 92%. With TR up and just standing there my attunement would only drop to 99% with each pulse then be back to 100% a second later. While I am likely toward the upper end of the spectrum and I like these results, I'd hate to get excited about these changes only to find that there was some calculation mistake somewhere.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 08:01 AM CDT
>>If the prep time of SMH were dropped a bit it might be a more useful spell. Is there a reason it's prep time isn't on-par with Rebuke? Is it because it's AOE?
Yes. AoE spells have a longer prep time.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Yes. AoE spells have a longer prep time.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 08:19 AM CDT
I didn't think to mention it before, but would you guys be willing to reconsider the cost of battle buffs since they don't last nearly as long as their 40 minute siblings. A 100 mana cap renders the battle feature of the spell useless (it really becomes more of a hindrance) because you can't straight prep that amount.
Although I'd prefer if the spell were normal duration, I would be content with it staying a battle spell if it capped at, say, 33 mana like halt.
Although I'd prefer if the spell were normal duration, I would be content with it staying a battle spell if it capped at, say, 33 mana like halt.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 10:01 AM CDT
>>I didn't think to mention it before, but would you guys be willing to reconsider the cost of battle buffs since they don't last nearly as long as their 40 minute siblings. A 100 mana cap renders the battle feature of the spell useless (it really becomes more of a hindrance) because you can't straight prep that amount.
Not at this time, no.
Might I suggest pre-charged cambrinth or casting below the cap?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Not at this time, no.
Might I suggest pre-charged cambrinth or casting below the cap?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 11:13 AM CDT
I pre-charge ~350 mana worth of cambrinth every spar (I don't bother with AS in PvE), but I blow through it in a few debilitation casts. The changes to debilitation cost and attunement recovery will obviously make that better, but I won't know how much until I really get to use it in Prime.
With the amount of hit-and-run in PvP, anything less than ~50 mana is often a waste of mana because the spell will fall off before my opponent prepares and moves in for the next stun; I'm also then subjecting myself to a much longer stun due to the potency drop and, depending on the stun (i.e. diminished or full duration), the stun might just fall off before the spell breaks it. If I can't afford a full potency AS, I usually take my chances, hoping for a diminished stun or a protect self if I really need to break a stun.
Admittedly, I'm a little bitter re: Anti-Stun specifically because it can be kept up pretty much forever at full potency by the other holy guild, and it's not even their spell whereas the chief complaint for paladins on the same spell is its duration.
With the amount of hit-and-run in PvP, anything less than ~50 mana is often a waste of mana because the spell will fall off before my opponent prepares and moves in for the next stun; I'm also then subjecting myself to a much longer stun due to the potency drop and, depending on the stun (i.e. diminished or full duration), the stun might just fall off before the spell breaks it. If I can't afford a full potency AS, I usually take my chances, hoping for a diminished stun or a protect self if I really need to break a stun.
Admittedly, I'm a little bitter re: Anti-Stun specifically because it can be kept up pretty much forever at full potency by the other holy guild, and it's not even their spell whereas the chief complaint for paladins on the same spell is its duration.
LENNONJON
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 11:46 AM CDT
>Admittedly, I'm a little bitter re: Anti-Stun specifically because it can be kept up pretty much forever at full potency by the other holy guild, and it's not even their spell whereas the chief complaint for paladins on the same spell is its duration.<
I thought it was nerfed so they can't use our spells like that anymore.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
I thought it was nerfed so they can't use our spells like that anymore.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
MAGE-WARRIOR
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 11:51 AM CDT
It was changed. Cleric spells only in the orb.
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Clerics/Game%20Master%20and%20Official%20Announcements/view/236
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Clerics/Game%20Master%20and%20Official%20Announcements/view/236
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 11:59 AM CDT
Thank you. My mistake. I never saw the announcement.
Bitterness gone. I'll wait and see how it feels in prime.
Bitterness gone. I'll wait and see how it feels in prime.
ISHARON
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 05:37 PM CDT
>>Lennonjon: I do want to mention that it seems as if either the rate of mana regen is too fast, or the pulsing of the cyclics are too slow. I was able to keep HOW up and cast all my normal buffs without my attunement dropping below 92%. With TR up and just standing there my attunement would only drop to 99% with each pulse then be back to 100% a second later. While I am likely toward the upper end of the spectrum and I like these results, I'd hate to get excited about these changes only to find that there was some calculation mistake somewhere.
How many ranks do you have, and how much mana were you using? Were you maintaining any other buffs at the time?
>>DR-Raesh: Not at this time, no. Might I suggest pre-charged cambrinth or casting below the cap?
What about the duration of battle spells? The 2-10 minute duration may be acceptable in some PvP applications, but for hunting, it is effectively useless. The best-case scenario is that I use a ton of mana and have to re-cast in 10 minutes. If you use less mana, the attunement cost is not as high, but then you spend too much time re-casting the spell, since mana affects duration.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
sortable list of all Trader-owned shops and inventory: http://www.elanthia.org/TraderShops/
armor and shields: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_and_shield_player_guide
How many ranks do you have, and how much mana were you using? Were you maintaining any other buffs at the time?
>>DR-Raesh: Not at this time, no. Might I suggest pre-charged cambrinth or casting below the cap?
What about the duration of battle spells? The 2-10 minute duration may be acceptable in some PvP applications, but for hunting, it is effectively useless. The best-case scenario is that I use a ton of mana and have to re-cast in 10 minutes. If you use less mana, the attunement cost is not as high, but then you spend too much time re-casting the spell, since mana affects duration.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
sortable list of all Trader-owned shops and inventory: http://www.elanthia.org/TraderShops/
armor and shields: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_and_shield_player_guide
DR-ARMIFER
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 05:45 PM CDT
I'm willing to concede that "battle buffs" didn't pan out like I hoped and we might need to reassign them as regular buffs across the board.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
LENNONJON
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 05:53 PM CDT
>How many ranks do you have, and how much mana were you using? Were you maintaining any other buffs at the time?<
Two situation, let me explain in more detail. Let's say 1k+ in all relevant magic skills, all mentals 100 (sans charisma at 98).
Currently, on the prime server if I want to put all the buffs I normally use up, I have to drop HOW prior to casting or I run out of mana. This is 10-buffs, where I prep each at 15, charge a camb at 15, five times, then cast.
On test last night. I was able to keep HOW up at max (20 now) and go through the above buffing routine. My attunement didn't drop below 92% the whole time.
With TR, on the prime server right now a 20 cast of TR takes 5% attunement each pulse. Slowly it drops my attunement down over time (after 4 minutes, I'm currently at 61%).
On test, with the 20 cast of TR each pulse only takes 1% of my attunement, so it's never dropping below 99%
Of course I like these changes. However, they almost seem too powerful (something I never thought would be said about Paladins). I just want to make sure this is intended and not a bug somewhere.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
Two situation, let me explain in more detail. Let's say 1k+ in all relevant magic skills, all mentals 100 (sans charisma at 98).
Currently, on the prime server if I want to put all the buffs I normally use up, I have to drop HOW prior to casting or I run out of mana. This is 10-buffs, where I prep each at 15, charge a camb at 15, five times, then cast.
On test last night. I was able to keep HOW up at max (20 now) and go through the above buffing routine. My attunement didn't drop below 92% the whole time.
With TR, on the prime server right now a 20 cast of TR takes 5% attunement each pulse. Slowly it drops my attunement down over time (after 4 minutes, I'm currently at 61%).
On test, with the 20 cast of TR each pulse only takes 1% of my attunement, so it's never dropping below 99%
Of course I like these changes. However, they almost seem too powerful (something I never thought would be said about Paladins). I just want to make sure this is intended and not a bug somewhere.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 06:39 PM CDT
>>Of course I like these changes. However, they almost seem too powerful (something I never thought would be said about Paladins). I just want to make sure this is intended and not a bug somewhere.
A LOT of that is we're on the magic prime regen now, the difference is..tragic on Prime.
Samsaren
A LOT of that is we're on the magic prime regen now, the difference is..tragic on Prime.
Samsaren
LENNONJON
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 06:44 PM CDT
>A LOT of that is we're on the magic prime regen now, the difference is..tragic on Prime.<
If that's really all it is, then we really were at a huge disadvantage. Just wow...
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
If that's really all it is, then we really were at a huge disadvantage. Just wow...
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 07:14 PM CDT
>>A LOT of that is we're on the magic prime regen now, the difference is..tragic on Prime.
That's a fairly generous characterization of the difference.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
That's a fairly generous characterization of the difference.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 07:31 PM CDT
>>That's a fairly generous characterization of the difference.
The big clue to me is listening to my fellow terts in the 800-1k+ range saying "It's gotta be broken, it's too good" and primes of a similar circle (so 3-500 more magics) saying "Meh, kinda sucks". Such is EYE OPENING.
Samsaren
The big clue to me is listening to my fellow terts in the 800-1k+ range saying "It's gotta be broken, it's too good" and primes of a similar circle (so 3-500 more magics) saying "Meh, kinda sucks". Such is EYE OPENING.
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 10:07 PM CDT
I seriously love TR now (in Test).
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/28/2016 11:46 PM CDT
>The big clue to me is listening to my fellow terts in the 800-1k+ range saying "It's gotta be broken, it's too good" and primes of a similar circle (so 3-500 more magics) saying "Meh, kinda sucks". Such is EYE OPENING.
Given that I know the before and after numbers I think a lot of this is odd really a product of how people maintained themselves on the mana curve.
That said, earlier today I did slightly increase the base mana pool size for primary and secondary casters, so they should see a little better performance.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Given that I know the before and after numbers I think a lot of this is odd really a product of how people maintained themselves on the mana curve.
That said, earlier today I did slightly increase the base mana pool size for primary and secondary casters, so they should see a little better performance.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
BADGOPHER
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 08:01 AM CDT
If it helps Raesh, the magic p Kmart players I've spoken to have been unthrilled, the secondaries weren't either, and the terts were quite happy. Mostly in the 600-1000 range.
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 08:35 AM CDT
Man, I knew there was a difference in mana regen across magic skill set classifications in spite of lots of player protesting that there was no difference between magic primary and tertiary casting early in M3.0. Still, I didn't know the difference was quite as pronounced as it seems it was (or is since the changes aren't live).
It's hard to understand in these shoes how anyone could feel underwhelmed with the overall change. The only spells that didn't get their costs slashed significantly were buffs, and now cambrinth is much more efficient so throwing up buffs has probably gotten faster at high skill. Was the extra regen bonus for primary and secondary guilds THAT good?
The camb change alone has made buffing a good bit faster for me in prime. The mana regen change is just icing on the buff cake; delicious icing with surprisingly tasty fondant.
It's hard to understand in these shoes how anyone could feel underwhelmed with the overall change. The only spells that didn't get their costs slashed significantly were buffs, and now cambrinth is much more efficient so throwing up buffs has probably gotten faster at high skill. Was the extra regen bonus for primary and secondary guilds THAT good?
The camb change alone has made buffing a good bit faster for me in prime. The mana regen change is just icing on the buff cake; delicious icing with surprisingly tasty fondant.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 09:01 AM CDT
>>> If it helps Raesh, the magic p Kmart players I've spoken to have been unthrilled, the secondaries weren't either, and the terts were quite happy. Mostly in the 600-1000 range.
I just did a quick test using my buff script on my MM and Cleric.
The MM (760 attunement) had no issues, but he had blinding mana in most books. I didn't bother testing in prime.
Spells: AUS, Shadowling, Seer, PG, GaF, Thoughtcast, CV
The cleric (380 attunement) ran out of mana before casting the final buff. Prior to these changes he would have been able to cast the whole stream and still have mana for POM. Then I moved into prime and ran the same script and the same thing happened. I think part of the problem is that with the reduced cambrinth RT he casts spells faster since before I would have delayed casting while charging cambrinth. The regen changes would have had an impact since I would have needed to wait to cast POM (and maybe PFE and Bless for an undead hunting trip).
Spells: MPP, MaPP, Benediction, Auspice, Centering
I just did a quick test using my buff script on my MM and Cleric.
The MM (760 attunement) had no issues, but he had blinding mana in most books. I didn't bother testing in prime.
Spells: AUS, Shadowling, Seer, PG, GaF, Thoughtcast, CV
The cleric (380 attunement) ran out of mana before casting the final buff. Prior to these changes he would have been able to cast the whole stream and still have mana for POM. Then I moved into prime and ran the same script and the same thing happened. I think part of the problem is that with the reduced cambrinth RT he casts spells faster since before I would have delayed casting while charging cambrinth. The regen changes would have had an impact since I would have needed to wait to cast POM (and maybe PFE and Bless for an undead hunting trip).
Spells: MPP, MaPP, Benediction, Auspice, Centering
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 10:27 AM CDT
To put some perspective on this...
In the old system base mana regen was (at the bottom of the mana curve) 4%-5% per pulse. Terts would always be at 4%, secondaries could get to 4.5% (with 600 ranks) and primaries could get to 5% (with 800 ranks).
As your mana pool recovered this would curve downward directly proportional to your missing mana until it hit a constant floor that was roughly 1-2% of your pool depending on how large your pool had grown (skill set placement didn't matter so this arrangement actually favored terts.)
The new system is a flat 3% right now. So it really does depend more on where you were use to operating than where your skill set placement was.
(This is all setting aside Deep Attunement, which is a powerful enough flat boost that it's on my radar for a possible nerf.)
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
In the old system base mana regen was (at the bottom of the mana curve) 4%-5% per pulse. Terts would always be at 4%, secondaries could get to 4.5% (with 600 ranks) and primaries could get to 5% (with 800 ranks).
As your mana pool recovered this would curve downward directly proportional to your missing mana until it hit a constant floor that was roughly 1-2% of your pool depending on how large your pool had grown (skill set placement didn't matter so this arrangement actually favored terts.)
The new system is a flat 3% right now. So it really does depend more on where you were use to operating than where your skill set placement was.
(This is all setting aside Deep Attunement, which is a powerful enough flat boost that it's on my radar for a possible nerf.)
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 10:56 AM CDT
>>>> The new system is a flat 3% right now. So it really does depend more on where you were use to operating than where your skill set placement was.
This is an interesting thought. I think where you are operating in the curve probably depends on what you are doing at the time. When buffing my plan is to get up what I need as fast as possible. That strategy is going to tank attunement and these changes will likely make buffing more difficult for every class and paladins will likely be most affected. In combat I will generally be in the upper end of the curve since I every character I play in a serious way has weapons and amour less than magic and therefore I am generally not casting spells or casting TM spells at low mana to avoid killing things. I wonder if paladins play in the lower end of the curve since they may need higher mana casts to learn their tertiary skill faster.
>>>> This is all setting aside Deep Attunement, which is a powerful enough flat boost that it's on my radar for a possible nerf.
Hmmmm. My MM, Cleric and Necro all have that feat. Perhaps that is a comment on how effective it is, but I know I will miss ii if it gets crushed too much.
This is an interesting thought. I think where you are operating in the curve probably depends on what you are doing at the time. When buffing my plan is to get up what I need as fast as possible. That strategy is going to tank attunement and these changes will likely make buffing more difficult for every class and paladins will likely be most affected. In combat I will generally be in the upper end of the curve since I every character I play in a serious way has weapons and amour less than magic and therefore I am generally not casting spells or casting TM spells at low mana to avoid killing things. I wonder if paladins play in the lower end of the curve since they may need higher mana casts to learn their tertiary skill faster.
>>>> This is all setting aside Deep Attunement, which is a powerful enough flat boost that it's on my radar for a possible nerf.
Hmmmm. My MM, Cleric and Necro all have that feat. Perhaps that is a comment on how effective it is, but I know I will miss ii if it gets crushed too much.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 10:57 AM CDT
>It's hard to understand in these shoes how anyone could feel underwhelmed with the overall change. The only spells that didn't get their costs slashed significantly were buffs, and now cambrinth is much more efficient so throwing up buffs has probably gotten faster at high skill. Was the extra regen bonus for primary and secondary guilds THAT good?
Extra regen, larger mana pool to begin with... as a magic primary you could comfortably buff themselves down to their regen floor and then operate in that 2% mana range indefinately. PvP experience might have been different. Magic primaries complaining about "running out" of mana were usually not understanding the system. My understanding of these changes are that they're in part to make mana a relevant balancing resource again.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Extra regen, larger mana pool to begin with... as a magic primary you could comfortably buff themselves down to their regen floor and then operate in that 2% mana range indefinately. PvP experience might have been different. Magic primaries complaining about "running out" of mana were usually not understanding the system. My understanding of these changes are that they're in part to make mana a relevant balancing resource again.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 12:11 PM CDT
>>The new system is a flat 3% right now. So it really does depend more on where you were use to operating than where your skill set placement was.
I suspect that's why the Paladins are enjoying this so much. If we're actively casting (or me during my hunting script/pvp) we're usually at 20% or less attunement. Getting the 'full' regen at 100% mana will feel even bigger to us. PVP wise I'm so used to not being able to straight prep over 30 due to limited mana pool reading logs of primes prepping spells at 100 boggles the mind. And thats with 1k+ in most of my magics as a Tert.
Samsaren
I suspect that's why the Paladins are enjoying this so much. If we're actively casting (or me during my hunting script/pvp) we're usually at 20% or less attunement. Getting the 'full' regen at 100% mana will feel even bigger to us. PVP wise I'm so used to not being able to straight prep over 30 due to limited mana pool reading logs of primes prepping spells at 100 boggles the mind. And thats with 1k+ in most of my magics as a Tert.
Samsaren
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
03/29/2016 12:12 PM CDT
>>Extra regen, larger mana pool to begin with... as a magic primary you could comfortably buff themselves down to their regen floor and then operate in that 2% mana range indefinately.
You have it backwards. The lower your mana pool the faster it recovered. You were rewarded (strongly) for tanking your mana.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
You have it backwards. The lower your mana pool the faster it recovered. You were rewarded (strongly) for tanking your mana.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
2DUMBARSE
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
04/05/2016 10:35 AM CDT
>Smite Horde: Weighted damage towards slice.
I didn't notice a change against drakes. It still takes 10-13 SMH casts to kill 4 drakes (that last drake was stubborn) in Test.
I didn't notice a change against drakes. It still takes 10-13 SMH casts to kill 4 drakes (that last drake was stubborn) in Test.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: ON TEST - Magic Changes [Paladins]
04/05/2016 12:02 PM CDT
>>I didn't notice a change against drakes. It still takes 10-13 SMH casts to kill 4 drakes (that last drake was stubborn) in Test.
AFAIK, you wouldn't notice much of a difference unless it was a critter with more impact resistance than slice resistance (or more slice resistance than impact resistance, I suppose!).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AFAIK, you wouldn't notice much of a difference unless it was a critter with more impact resistance than slice resistance (or more slice resistance than impact resistance, I suppose!).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
