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DRFREAK
Necro soul hits
09/24/2013 07:10 PM CDT
This is Awesome! And makes absolute sense.
Any chance we could get Protect fixed? It's real bad...
-Zerreck
ASHAMAN1
ASHAMAN1
ZULJIN
ANOUSHKA
SHADOW7988
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 06:42 AM CDT
Totally great new way.
Thanks!
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Thanks!
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
MCMILLANR
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 10:12 AM CDT
The changes make perfect sense specially with the no first strike penelty to attacking.
I am nearly in tears over not being penalized twice during thievery. Any idea when the Guildleadership won't be holding it agains't us?
- Deadly Shadow Walcar Seord.
I am nearly in tears over not being penalized twice during thievery. Any idea when the Guildleadership won't be holding it agains't us?
- Deadly Shadow Walcar Seord.
ZULJIN
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 02:44 PM CDT
Armifer,
Something you mentioned in this thread gave me an idea. You said that GMNPCs could be flagged as evil and have associated consequences with that. Do you think it would be possible for PCs to flag themselves as evil or good? You mentioned how being flagged as evil would affect interactions with paladins and I'm sure we could brainstorm to get other ideas for both sides. This could be huge system to create but it could add some additional richness to NPC and PVP interactions. If this resembles the DnD system too much and wouldn't fit the game, I can understand but I figured it might be a good idea to discuss.
Something you mentioned in this thread gave me an idea. You said that GMNPCs could be flagged as evil and have associated consequences with that. Do you think it would be possible for PCs to flag themselves as evil or good? You mentioned how being flagged as evil would affect interactions with paladins and I'm sure we could brainstorm to get other ideas for both sides. This could be huge system to create but it could add some additional richness to NPC and PVP interactions. If this resembles the DnD system too much and wouldn't fit the game, I can understand but I figured it might be a good idea to discuss.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 02:54 PM CDT
>>Do you think it would be possible for PCs to flag themselves as evil or good?
Might be looking too deeply into it, but I wonder if a non-necro PC could get that level of sufficient outrage by wearing any of that gear that generates Social Outrage.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Might be looking too deeply into it, but I wonder if a non-necro PC could get that level of sufficient outrage by wearing any of that gear that generates Social Outrage.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-RAESH
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 03:08 PM CDT
It's unlikely with the current system. It's not a robust system but a simple GM flag to prevent you from being arrested for killing Karosti when he's blowing up town and so forth.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ELFVERHAN
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 03:16 PM CDT
>>It's unlikely with the current system. It's not a robust system but a simple GM flag to prevent you from being arrested for killing Karosti when he's blowing up town and so forth.<<
I once brought up the idea of paladins being able to inflict greater damage on corrupt and evil people, and was ask how to measure this. What about using the level of Sorcery know versus the Paladins level?
if the Target has more knowledge than it receives more damage if the Paladin knows more than the Paladin receives a back lash.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
I once brought up the idea of paladins being able to inflict greater damage on corrupt and evil people, and was ask how to measure this. What about using the level of Sorcery know versus the Paladins level?
if the Target has more knowledge than it receives more damage if the Paladin knows more than the Paladin receives a back lash.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
OLSONM6
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 03:40 PM CDT
>What about using the level of Sorcery know versus the Paladins level?
Sorcery is not inherently evil.
Sorcery is not inherently evil.
ELFVERHAN
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 03:46 PM CDT
>>Sorcery is not inherently evil.<<
The Gods frown on it evil enough.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
The Gods frown on it evil enough.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
GRIM45
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 03:53 PM CDT
>>The Gods frown on it evil enough.
No, they don't.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
No, they don't.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 04:18 PM CDT
>>It's unlikely with the current system. It's not a robust system but a simple GM flag to prevent you from being arrested for killing Karosti when he's blowing up town and so forth.
Does the perverse flag for necros being jerks and the perverse flag for wearing SO-generating items run on the same rail? I don't have any idea how things work on the system-side, but having Bob wear his SO-generating necklace of baby toes and get flagged evil for it sounds like it would accomplish the goal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Does the perverse flag for necros being jerks and the perverse flag for wearing SO-generating items run on the same rail? I don't have any idea how things work on the system-side, but having Bob wear his SO-generating necklace of baby toes and get flagged evil for it sounds like it would accomplish the goal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-RAESH
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 04:23 PM CDT
>>Does the perverse flag for necros being jerks and the perverse flag for wearing SO-generating items run on the same rail? I don't have any idea how things work on the system-side, but having Bob wear his SO-generating necklace of baby toes and get flagged evil for it sounds like it would accomplish the goal.
Not even remotely.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Not even remotely.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 04:34 PM CDT
>>Not even remotely.
Darn. :(
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Darn. :(
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ELFVERHAN
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 06:23 PM CDT
>>No, they don't.<<
sor·cery noun \-rē\
: the use of magical powers that are obtained through evil spirits
Full Definition of SORCERY
1
: the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining : necromancy
2
: magic 2a
<in olden times people suspected of sorcery were often put to death>
Origin of SORCERY
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
sor·cery noun \-rē\
: the use of magical powers that are obtained through evil spirits
Full Definition of SORCERY
1
: the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining : necromancy
2
: magic 2a
<in olden times people suspected of sorcery were often put to death>
Origin of SORCERY
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
GRIM45
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 06:49 PM CDT
>>ELFVERHAN
Haha.. It's cute you think a random dictionary definition has any relevance to this discussion.
Here, these will be more relevant: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=sorcery&fulltext=Search
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Haha.. It's cute you think a random dictionary definition has any relevance to this discussion.
Here, these will be more relevant: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=sorcery&fulltext=Search
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
ELFVERHAN
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 06:52 PM CDT
>>Haha.. It's cute you think a random dictionary definition has any relevance to this discussion.<<
The more perverse you become the easier it is to cast a mixed mana spell so yes is very relevant. Just because you don't agree is your opinion. Which you are entitled to.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
The more perverse you become the easier it is to cast a mixed mana spell so yes is very relevant. Just because you don't agree is your opinion. Which you are entitled to.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
GRIM45
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 07:06 PM CDT
It's very clear from your continued posts you have no idea what sorcery in DragonRealms is, nor it's interaction with the Immortals. Have fun with your delusions.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 07:38 PM CDT
>>Full Definition of SORCERY
That's not DR's version of sorcery.
In DR, lowercase s sorcery is bad in the sense that it's just dumb. You're trying to force a round peg into a square hole and it's just not healthy for you. Society is cool with this, mainly because it's generally incapable of telling when someone explodes themselves because they used the wrong mana or because they're just terrible mages.
In DR, capital S Sorcery is bad in the sense that it's a threat to the stability of magic as a whole. You're mixing things that should not be mixed according to the rules of magic and it's not only dangerous to you but it's dangerous to the very structure of how things work. Mages are wary of Sorcery less because exploding is a bad thing and more that if someone else uses it incorrectly it can severely harm their ability to access magic. Society is wary of Sorcery because it's notably more terrifying than normal magic by the very nature of how it works. Immortals generally don't care about Sorcery either way, because for whatever reason they're cool with the idea of whatever fallout would happen from Sorcery.
In DR, Necromancy is a specific subset of Sorcery that the Immortals explicitly hate for their own reasons. It appears to have little to do with Sorcery being so dangerous to the stability of everything, since they're cool with Sorcery in general. So there's something else that makes Necromancy particularly bothersome to them.
And that's your crash lesson on how sorcery and Sorcery works in DR.
>>The more perverse you become the easier it is to cast a mixed mana spell so yes is very relevant. Just because you don't agree is your opinion. Which you are entitled to.
While I've heard that Necromancers have a general bonus toward sorcery (along with a general inability to use holy magic at all), I've never heard that they get a bigger one based on how Perverse they are. Especially since the Immortals don't really care how Perverse Necromancers are. If you meant high end Divine Outrage instead of high end Social Outrage, I'm still not sure when that was ever said.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
That's not DR's version of sorcery.
In DR, lowercase s sorcery is bad in the sense that it's just dumb. You're trying to force a round peg into a square hole and it's just not healthy for you. Society is cool with this, mainly because it's generally incapable of telling when someone explodes themselves because they used the wrong mana or because they're just terrible mages.
In DR, capital S Sorcery is bad in the sense that it's a threat to the stability of magic as a whole. You're mixing things that should not be mixed according to the rules of magic and it's not only dangerous to you but it's dangerous to the very structure of how things work. Mages are wary of Sorcery less because exploding is a bad thing and more that if someone else uses it incorrectly it can severely harm their ability to access magic. Society is wary of Sorcery because it's notably more terrifying than normal magic by the very nature of how it works. Immortals generally don't care about Sorcery either way, because for whatever reason they're cool with the idea of whatever fallout would happen from Sorcery.
In DR, Necromancy is a specific subset of Sorcery that the Immortals explicitly hate for their own reasons. It appears to have little to do with Sorcery being so dangerous to the stability of everything, since they're cool with Sorcery in general. So there's something else that makes Necromancy particularly bothersome to them.
And that's your crash lesson on how sorcery and Sorcery works in DR.
>>The more perverse you become the easier it is to cast a mixed mana spell so yes is very relevant. Just because you don't agree is your opinion. Which you are entitled to.
While I've heard that Necromancers have a general bonus toward sorcery (along with a general inability to use holy magic at all), I've never heard that they get a bigger one based on how Perverse they are. Especially since the Immortals don't really care how Perverse Necromancers are. If you meant high end Divine Outrage instead of high end Social Outrage, I'm still not sure when that was ever said.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ELFVERHAN
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 07:51 PM CDT
First off this should be moved to a different venue perhaps Paladin spells would be better.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
The bucket burbles suddenly as its contents begin to dissolve....
Suddenly it spits out some niniam field plate onto the floor.
ROBERTDH
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 08:05 PM CDT
>In DR, Necromancy is a specific subset of Sorcery that the Immortals explicitly hate for their own reasons. It appears to have little to do with Sorcery being so dangerous to the stability of everything, since they're cool with Sorcery in general. So there's something else that makes Necromancy particularly bothersome to them.
The immortals have a particular problem with people animating the dead or enhancing themselves outside the scope of the original mortal design. That it's high necromancy being used to accomplish these things probably doesn't matter to them; they have a similar problem with non-sorcerous thanatology.
The immortals have a particular problem with people animating the dead or enhancing themselves outside the scope of the original mortal design. That it's high necromancy being used to accomplish these things probably doesn't matter to them; they have a similar problem with non-sorcerous thanatology.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
09/25/2013 08:45 PM CDT
>>The immortals have a particular problem with people animating the dead or enhancing themselves outside the scope of the original mortal design.
Oh, I know. I was just saying that the reasoning why is unknown at the time. Territorial? Scared? Just picky? Who knows.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Oh, I know. I was just saying that the reasoning why is unknown at the time. Territorial? Scared? Just picky? Who knows.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-NAOHHI
Re: Necro soul hits
09/26/2013 12:41 AM CDT
ILLIENA
Re: Necro soul hits
09/26/2013 04:47 AM CDT
2DUMBARSE
NRAY
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 08:03 PM CDT
Thanks for the necro smiting no longer hurting paladin!
As far as the Sorcery skill goes: please rename it. It has caused Sylvaeus no end of headache having the same term describe his relationship to Cage of Light as it does his relationship with evil. Cage of Light is actually an expression of faith and an appreciation of Immortal creation (the universe) for him- the entire opposite of evil or rebellion against the Gods. He has developed some strong beliefs/hypothesis about the nature of mana (some of which I'm sure are wrong given the limited educational material in elanthia on the topic and his own fallible nature, some of which I would hope simply places him ahead of his time) but if he even sniffs at anything the Gods don't like in his research or in his day to day life he either avoids it or smites it. He chalks up most laws against learning/teaching the Sorcery skill to simple ignorance of the masses and nobles pandering to said ignorance. Using the same word to convey such morally polar opposite things is more than a little annoying. There has to be some kind of a better name for a paladin casting Cage of Light than 'flirting with evil'.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 08:47 PM CDT
>>As far as the Sorcery skill goes: please rename it. It has caused Sylvaeus no end of headache having the same term describe his relationship to Cage of Light as it does his relationship with evil.
To reiterate:
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
To reiterate:
| type | Society | Immortals (aka: is it evil) |
| sorcery | don't care (can't even tell) | don't care |
| Sorcery | care (because it "looks scary" at worst, dangerous to some plane or another at best) | don't care |
| Necromancy | care | hate you for using it |
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
NRAY
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 09:12 PM CDT
Thank you. :) I'm saying that in a world full of typos and IC interactions the capital letter isn't enough of a distinction. It really hinders my RP... like, a lot.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 09:38 PM CDT
>>I'm saying that in a world full of typos and IC interactions the capital letter isn't enough of a distinction. It really hinders my RP... like, a lot.
Any hindrance is really on your end but you should regard it as a great RP opportunity instead of a dead-end from the get-go.
Your character might want/have to do some mental acrobatics to justify what he sees as something very evil, even if the Immortals don't see it as evil and general society is too dumb to recognize casting against your mana type as something dangerous, just like capital S Sorcery.
To clarify, lowercase s sorcery and capital s Sorcery are both dangerous/reckless/etc; it's just that lowercase s sorcery isn't as blatantly "oh my god what are you doing" when it is being done, unless it clearly goes wrong. Meanwhile, even when it goes right capital S Sorcery gives the visual effect of being rather against nature/reality, which is most likely the primary reason the unwashed masses can even recognize it for what it is.
One way to look at it is that your character is exploiting how dumb the public is when it comes to doing it. Any kind of sorcery/Sorcery is dangerous, it's just that most people don't really know magical theory and don't know the back-end difference between a Paladin casting X and a Moon Mage casting X. Another way is that the end justifies the means. Another way is that sorcery/Sorcery is only "evil" because it scares the public, so if you're not scaring the public you're not doing anything evil.
In the end, is your character willing to make this kind of semantic argument when called out on it? Or will your character feel like it's an incredibly minute distinction yet not care because blah blah blah? Or will there be some kind of other acrobatic argument to justify things?
I personally see it similar to a Paladin who would want to know about Thievery. Only this time knowledge of the skill can potentially explode the world instead of just tempt you to rob a bank or something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Any hindrance is really on your end but you should regard it as a great RP opportunity instead of a dead-end from the get-go.
Your character might want/have to do some mental acrobatics to justify what he sees as something very evil, even if the Immortals don't see it as evil and general society is too dumb to recognize casting against your mana type as something dangerous, just like capital S Sorcery.
To clarify, lowercase s sorcery and capital s Sorcery are both dangerous/reckless/etc; it's just that lowercase s sorcery isn't as blatantly "oh my god what are you doing" when it is being done, unless it clearly goes wrong. Meanwhile, even when it goes right capital S Sorcery gives the visual effect of being rather against nature/reality, which is most likely the primary reason the unwashed masses can even recognize it for what it is.
One way to look at it is that your character is exploiting how dumb the public is when it comes to doing it. Any kind of sorcery/Sorcery is dangerous, it's just that most people don't really know magical theory and don't know the back-end difference between a Paladin casting X and a Moon Mage casting X. Another way is that the end justifies the means. Another way is that sorcery/Sorcery is only "evil" because it scares the public, so if you're not scaring the public you're not doing anything evil.
In the end, is your character willing to make this kind of semantic argument when called out on it? Or will your character feel like it's an incredibly minute distinction yet not care because blah blah blah? Or will there be some kind of other acrobatic argument to justify things?
I personally see it similar to a Paladin who would want to know about Thievery. Only this time knowledge of the skill can potentially explode the world instead of just tempt you to rob a bank or something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 10:35 PM CDT
While I agree the lower case s versus capital s is a lazy non creative and terrible game design for an RP MUD I also love it speaking as an NMU.
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DR-ARMIFER
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 10:39 PM CDT
If in-character ambiguity is anathema, I want nothing to do with this vision of a RP MUD.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
NRAY
Re: Necro soul hits
06/01/2014 10:53 PM CDT
Well..... looks like I'm pushing Armifer away. That's disappointing. It really is a bad name for the skill in my opinion.
Sylvaeus does not see anything unnatural with a paladin casting Cage of Light. An example (among many examples) of how he -tried- the RP this topic is when Morghena told Sylv to stuff it (she said so semi-politely though) before he ends up in the dungeons for even bringing it up. He interpreted this as nobles standing between him and his faith (I have posted a couple times about how he views that particular lunar spell). Most people just threaten violence or imprisonment before he can even explain why he feels that way. Also, I keep reading the elanthipeda pages about magical theory but I have yet to find anything that he hurts, on any plane, by casting that spell. I find the topic of mana theory very, very interesting. Perhaps some lectures/meetings/conferences at the Asmath Academy on the topic of mana theory would be a good idea?
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
06/02/2014 12:36 AM CDT
>>It really is a bad name for the skill in my opinion.
Keep in mind that you feel it's a bad name because you think it's a bad thing, and it kinda is a bad thing. It's just that many people are oblivious to some uses of that bad thing.
>>Sylvaeus does not see anything unnatural with a paladin casting Cage of Light.
At the same time, many Philosophers see nothing unnatural or wrong when creating zombie hordes in an attempt to defy the rules of life itself.
So we can tell ourselves lots of things. It doesn't mean we're right, though.
>>Most people just threaten violence or imprisonment before he can even explain why he feels that way.
Welcome to being kinda/sorta a Necromancer, only slightly less terrifying.
>>Also, I keep reading the elanthipeda pages about magical theory but I have yet to find anything that he hurts, on any plane, by casting that spell.
OOCly, think of it as forcing a 110v device to use a 220v outlet without any kind of adapters. It might work, at least for a bit, but it also might explode in your face. For some sorcery, that explosion may just be your arms. For other Sorceries, that explosion may be reality itself. Heck, for many Sorceries, even when things go right things are being torn apart.
You might not personally see yourself doing anything harmful when using the wrong mana in a spell, but you probably wouldn't see the ozone layer thinning out if you walked around spraying CFC aerosols into the sky, either.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Keep in mind that you feel it's a bad name because you think it's a bad thing, and it kinda is a bad thing. It's just that many people are oblivious to some uses of that bad thing.
>>Sylvaeus does not see anything unnatural with a paladin casting Cage of Light.
At the same time, many Philosophers see nothing unnatural or wrong when creating zombie hordes in an attempt to defy the rules of life itself.
So we can tell ourselves lots of things. It doesn't mean we're right, though.
>>Most people just threaten violence or imprisonment before he can even explain why he feels that way.
Welcome to being kinda/sorta a Necromancer, only slightly less terrifying.
>>Also, I keep reading the elanthipeda pages about magical theory but I have yet to find anything that he hurts, on any plane, by casting that spell.
OOCly, think of it as forcing a 110v device to use a 220v outlet without any kind of adapters. It might work, at least for a bit, but it also might explode in your face. For some sorcery, that explosion may just be your arms. For other Sorceries, that explosion may be reality itself. Heck, for many Sorceries, even when things go right things are being torn apart.
You might not personally see yourself doing anything harmful when using the wrong mana in a spell, but you probably wouldn't see the ozone layer thinning out if you walked around spraying CFC aerosols into the sky, either.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Necro soul hits
06/02/2014 12:45 AM CDT
>>While I agree the lower case s versus capital s is a lazy non creative and terrible game design for an RP MUD I also love it speaking as an NMU.
Keep in mind that it's ICly stupid/lazy/dumb, not OOCly stupid/lazy/dumb. Game-design-wise, any "incorrect" use of energy in a spell pattern is sorcery. What makes something Sorcery instead of sorcery is that there isn't a "correct" way to cast the spell at all.
ICly, "It's not real sorcery" is DR's equivalent of "I don't have a drinking problem I only get blackout drunk on the weekends." You're just making excuses for what amounts to reckless/bad/dangerous behavior.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Keep in mind that it's ICly stupid/lazy/dumb, not OOCly stupid/lazy/dumb. Game-design-wise, any "incorrect" use of energy in a spell pattern is sorcery. What makes something Sorcery instead of sorcery is that there isn't a "correct" way to cast the spell at all.
ICly, "It's not real sorcery" is DR's equivalent of "I don't have a drinking problem I only get blackout drunk on the weekends." You're just making excuses for what amounts to reckless/bad/dangerous behavior.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-RAESH
Re: Necro soul hits
06/02/2014 12:53 AM CDT
Well, yes and no.
'sorcery' is running you car on Moonshine. Can it work? If done correctly, yes. (See: Mythbusters). Is it generally safe, effective and a good idea? Not terribly.
... but until it goes horribly wrong no one really knows you are doing it or cares.
'Sorcery' is designing your car to only run on Moonshine and then covering it with spikes and driving it down the sidewalk.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
'sorcery' is running you car on Moonshine. Can it work? If done correctly, yes. (See: Mythbusters). Is it generally safe, effective and a good idea? Not terribly.
... but until it goes horribly wrong no one really knows you are doing it or cares.
'Sorcery' is designing your car to only run on Moonshine and then covering it with spikes and driving it down the sidewalk.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
NRAY
Re: Necro soul hits
06/02/2014 01:45 AM CDT
I gotta say I'm more with Raesh than TEVESHSZAT on this one. OOCly I don't see blending mana streams as evil. I just don't read anything there that makes me think that. How does casting Cage of Light hurt the planet? I'm going over magical theory on elanthipedia again.......
"how prehistoric mages went about being attuned to mana is not known". I really, really like this.
"Sorcery is the mixing of any two non-Life types, while Necromancy utilizes Life in the pattern." So.... that means Sylvaeus is not a 'kinda sorta necromancer' for casting Cage of Light. (Saying that to him a good way to pick a fight.)
"Sorcerous spell patterns as a result of their composition are inherently unstable and destructive." Now, ICly, Sylvaeus thinks this is because the academic science of blending mana streams was persecuted for generations and is thus now very, very primitive. He would say "We just haven't figured it out well enough yet". OOCly..... my position is that delegating the blending of mana streams to purely destructive purposes is a mistake and a waste of some great development opportunities.
The concept of making Life mana and Holy mana incompatible I find interesting. Most societies in RL history allied the concepts of life and holiness. I can see why it was written that way, given the concept of necromancy on DR, but I still was a little shocked by the rejection of real life analogues.
Okay... so I just gave it another thorough read. I don't see anything about a paladin casting Cage of Light as destructive to the world in any way. I still don't know why blending mana streams was given a name with such a negative connotation as 'Sorcery'. Also, according to the first paragraph about mana, -all- magic is in a sense unnatural because it shifts mana streams into unnatural states they are not normally in. I'm not sure I'm comfortable thinking of all magic in Elanthia as unnatural but there it was for me to read. Again, when it comes to a paladin casting Cage of Light..... perhaps there should be some event where a GMNPC hosts a lecture on it or something at Asmath Academy? So far I have not found where all this 'the world is gonna end' and 'this is really unnatural' stuff comes from.
DR-RAESH
Re: Necro soul hits
06/02/2014 02:27 AM CDT
>>I don't see anything about a paladin casting Cage of Light as destructive to the world in any way.
It isn't dangerous on that scope. It's reckless because you're using a fuel to power the spell pattern it's not designed to accept. Sometimes it works, sometimes it blows up. But it's not going to end the world.
Capital-S Sorcery are spells that cannot operate in a safe way. The cannot be powered safely and, necromancy in particularly, has some other problems associated with it. Namely that the Immortals, for whatever reason, seem to really hate it when they don't really have a problem with other forms of capital-S Sorcery.
Society is less good at telling these things apart. And, to some degree, they're right. They're all reckless and dangerous and can cause Bad Things(tm) to happen.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
It isn't dangerous on that scope. It's reckless because you're using a fuel to power the spell pattern it's not designed to accept. Sometimes it works, sometimes it blows up. But it's not going to end the world.
Capital-S Sorcery are spells that cannot operate in a safe way. The cannot be powered safely and, necromancy in particularly, has some other problems associated with it. Namely that the Immortals, for whatever reason, seem to really hate it when they don't really have a problem with other forms of capital-S Sorcery.
Society is less good at telling these things apart. And, to some degree, they're right. They're all reckless and dangerous and can cause Bad Things(tm) to happen.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
