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Thanks for posting this information!
>>DR-Socharis: Restricted Skills
Does this just mean that Thievery and Sorcery do not count toward our circle requirements, or does it mean that we are prohibited from learning these skills? (I know that we cannot learn stealing, but I am curious whether the same rule applies to sorcery.)
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
ISHARON
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/16/2012 02:32 PM CDT
I believe he's said in other topics that 'restricted' simply means can't be used to circle. Sorcery can be used only for bards, necros, and MMs I think.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/16/2012 03:28 PM CDT
>>I believe he's said in other topics that 'restricted' simply means can't be used to circle. Sorcery can be used only for bards, necros, and MMs I think.
Yep. You'll still be able to learn these skills (and in fact won't be penalized from learning thievery either).
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Yep. You'll still be able to learn these skills (and in fact won't be penalized from learning thievery either).
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/16/2012 04:47 PM CDT
By not being penalized for learning theivery do you mean, not receiving soul penelties when doing said stealing? Not being cursed by the Guildleaders when trying to circle? And I assume restricted means it cannot be used to meet a requirement.
exp stealing
Stealing 138 05.95%
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union, a Human.
exp stealing
Stealing 138 05.95%
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union, a Human.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/16/2012 05:12 PM CDT
>>Not being cursed by the Guildleaders when trying to circle?
This is what I mean. The soul penalties and stuff aren't in scope for X3.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
This is what I mean. The soul penalties and stuff aren't in scope for X3.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/16/2012 10:19 PM CDT
Sorry if I had missed this question being answer some other place in some of forum board.. but I can't find anything in these forums without a search area.. so here goes....
How will the Defend Skill and Tactics Skill be calculated, what will be used as a base for there start or will they be given a 'grandfathered' starting point in line with our current level? In regards to Scholarship in our requirements I can assume that can be 1st or 2nd lore requirement also?
And personally I like the changes.. I would have gone a harder survivals and added a third lore requirement instead of higher armor. But thats me I'm wierd that way. Specially according to the math I would have survivals for 190th circle.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
How will the Defend Skill and Tactics Skill be calculated, what will be used as a base for there start or will they be given a 'grandfathered' starting point in line with our current level? In regards to Scholarship in our requirements I can assume that can be 1st or 2nd lore requirement also?
And personally I like the changes.. I would have gone a harder survivals and added a third lore requirement instead of higher armor. But thats me I'm wierd that way. Specially according to the math I would have survivals for 190th circle.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
QUARRIC3
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/17/2012 04:17 AM CDT
>>(and in fact won't be penalized from learning thievery either)<<
Say what ? Could you explain the rationale behind this ?
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/17/2012 08:41 PM CDT
>>Say what ? Could you explain the rationale behind this ?
Mainly: How do the guildleaders know you're good at thievery if you don't tell them? When you ask them about circling, chances are good they ask you to demonstrate your skills and prove that they fall within your desired next circle. I don't think you'll do the same if they say "For reals, do you know how to steal things?"
I'm not removing any of the penalties around the act of stealing - Just the part where the GL gets cranky when you know stealing.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Mainly: How do the guildleaders know you're good at thievery if you don't tell them? When you ask them about circling, chances are good they ask you to demonstrate your skills and prove that they fall within your desired next circle. I don't think you'll do the same if they say "For reals, do you know how to steal things?"
I'm not removing any of the penalties around the act of stealing - Just the part where the GL gets cranky when you know stealing.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 08:28 PM CDT
Alright, now that all the cool stuff has been answered I have a really wierd question I've been noticing... used Leilonds converter in the other folder.. Yes I know its probably not specifically accurate has bugs etc etc... but it made me think of a question..
Scholarship is a required skill as a Paladin. Does that Scholarship skill count as Lore 1 or Lore 2 even if its also required as Scholarship. Running into issue since I dont train mech and don't perform music. Just appraisel and scholar/teaching. Losing the teaching.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
Scholarship is a required skill as a Paladin. Does that Scholarship skill count as Lore 1 or Lore 2 even if its also required as Scholarship. Running into issue since I dont train mech and don't perform music. Just appraisel and scholar/teaching. Losing the teaching.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
TALEEK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 08:32 PM CDT
Are you counting Tactics as a lore? You should be:)
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 08:40 PM CDT
Its not counting Tactics either. Which now that you mention it... so if I count those and take the converter as solid truth. I will literally JUMP 12 circles once the mergers are completed.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
ILLIENA
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:30 PM CDT
> Are you counting Tactics as a lore? You should be:)
No you shouldn't. Tactics and Scholarship are both hard reqs, and so cannot be used for Nth lore reqs.
No you shouldn't. Tactics and Scholarship are both hard reqs, and so cannot be used for Nth lore reqs.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:31 PM CDT
Paladins have a hard requirement in Tactics and Scholarship. Thusly, neither are applicable for either of your Nth Lore skills.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
TALEEK
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:39 PM CDT
Wow then I'm totally, you know what, for lores. Unless they going to be giving me over 150 ranks in mech.
Scholarship: 406 88% ruminating (8/34) Mechanical Lore: 168 44% clear (0/34)
Appraisal: 267 86% clear (0/34) Teaching: 380 48% dabbling (1/34)
Animal Lore: 50 53% clear (0/34) Percussions: 23 74% clear (0/34)
Strings: 11 03% clear (0/34) Winds: 13 15% clear (0/34)
Vocals: 148 61% thoughtful (4/34)
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
Scholarship: 406 88% ruminating (8/34) Mechanical Lore: 168 44% clear (0/34)
Appraisal: 267 86% clear (0/34) Teaching: 380 48% dabbling (1/34)
Animal Lore: 50 53% clear (0/34) Percussions: 23 74% clear (0/34)
Strings: 11 03% clear (0/34) Winds: 13 15% clear (0/34)
Vocals: 148 61% thoughtful (4/34)
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
ILLIENA
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:40 PM CDT
Although, maybe Scholarship should be made soft, and a 3rd lore req added at 1/2/2/3/3? The net effect would be that if someone wanted to keep their scholarship a little higher, they could keep their second non-Tactics, non-Scholarship lore a little lower.
It's just weird having a hard req which is lower than an Nth req. "We care about scholarship a lot, so we require that you train it explicitly. We care about this other lore not as much, so you can choose what it is. But for some reason, we demand more from the skill we don't care about as much."
It's just weird having a hard req which is lower than an Nth req. "We care about scholarship a lot, so we require that you train it explicitly. We care about this other lore not as much, so you can choose what it is. But for some reason, we demand more from the skill we don't care about as much."
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:42 PM CDT
Hope grandfathered 1st 2nd lore will come. I never thought I'd be punished for not standing around braiding grass endlessly for years and years.
All my mech ranks are from fixing broken gweth chains for the past umpteen years. lol.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
All my mech ranks are from fixing broken gweth chains for the past umpteen years. lol.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
ILLIENA
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:44 PM CDT
> Hope grandfathered 1st 2nd lore will come.
Everything will be grandfathered so that you meet your current circle reqs. The only caveat is that if your mech lore is grandfathered, and then you split it between more than one skill, you might stop meeting your reqs. So if that's important to you, make sure to put it all in one skill.
Everything will be grandfathered so that you meet your current circle reqs. The only caveat is that if your mech lore is grandfathered, and then you split it between more than one skill, you might stop meeting your reqs. So if that's important to you, make sure to put it all in one skill.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:50 PM CDT
Most important of all IMO -- Make sure you figure out a way to train the skills that are going to be grandfathered up, because they are going to be the things which hold you back from circling going forward.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
SULLIVANS3
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 09:59 PM CDT
I'm missing something. From reading the Paladin req post I can't see where it specifically says if the scholarship or tactics reqs are hard or soft. Where is this info coming from?
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 10:00 PM CDT
Its going all into 1 skill. So let me get this straight. We have 2 soft Lore reqs and 2 hard lore reqs and neither of them can be the same. So in reality we MUST train 4 lores? Thats completely crap.. I have no inclination to forge anything. Thats why I never trained mech lore. Of the 8 available NEW lores. 2 are hard reqs. The easiest two available.. 4 require someone to make junk. Nearly as bad as standing around braiding all day. Appraisel will become my 1st lore.. so that leaves Alchemy, Outfitting, Blacksmithing, Engineering and Performing as the only possible 2nd lores... everyone of them requires me to spend countless hours pounding away, stitching or whatever inside some building in some city?
Personally I feel the Scholarship Req should be as high and completely replace the 1st Lore requirement. So it should be like this highest Lore - scholarship, 2nd highest tactics, 3rd highest whatever, 4th highest whatever else.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
Personally I feel the Scholarship Req should be as high and completely replace the 1st Lore requirement. So it should be like this highest Lore - scholarship, 2nd highest tactics, 3rd highest whatever, 4th highest whatever else.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
ILLIENA
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/18/2012 10:08 PM CDT
> From reading the Paladin req post I can't see where it specifically says if the scholarship or tactics reqs are hard or soft. Where is this info coming from?
The basic pattern has been that if Soch didn't say it was a soft req, it's a hard req. Maybe we're misapplying it here, though.
The basic pattern has been that if Soch didn't say it was a soft req, it's a hard req. Maybe we're misapplying it here, though.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 06:16 AM CDT
What ILLIENA said. If either Scholarship or Tactics was mentioned to be a soft requirement in a consecutive post please let me know and I'll change it willy nilly.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 07:57 AM CDT
I'm going to guess there has been a miscommunication or misunderstanding somewhere. It seems like lore reqs were set so no one would be forced to craft. I have a hard time thinking a lore tert would be.
Seriously do not want to craft myself. It doesn't interest me in DR.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Seriously do not want to craft myself. It doesn't interest me in DR.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
SULLIVANS3
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 09:14 AM CDT
We are lore secondary, but I have the same issue with it. If those are hard reqs my only real options for first and second lores are appraisal and mech/crafting. I like the crafting system and will probably mess around with it, but I didn't have any plans to actively train it.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
BEVERAGEK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 09:22 AM CDT
Even with Scholarship/Tactics as hard reqs you can still train Appraisal and Performance and not use any crafting skills for advancement.
Whether or not that is preferable is a completely different arguement :P
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
Whether or not that is preferable is a completely different arguement :P
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
SULLIVANS3
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 09:49 AM CDT
Heh, yeah, I was ignoring performance as it hasn't been something I've ever been interested in training. I guess that's really what it comes down to. The only options left don't 'make sense' for Katt. It's not the end of the world, I've just been pleased with the high level idea that in 3.0, you wouldn't really be training stuff just to train it/earn TDPs, this situation kind of goes against that a bit.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
CLYNLYN
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 12:16 PM CDT
How many people are in the same boat as me and see no net issues? I gain some tdps that's about it.
EDERICK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 12:34 PM CDT
I gain a few hundred TDPs with the change, and don't need any grandfathering to maintain my circle. I wish primary armor went up a little bit with shield having a hard req of equal rank to primary armor.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 01:03 PM CDT
I actually really don't like the Paladin lore requirements, now that I'm looking at them. I'm going to futz with them and give them a bit more sensibility.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
NEELD
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 01:36 PM CDT
Doesn't impact me one way or the other. As long as I do not have to backtrain anything, I am pretty good with whatever.
Madigan
Madigan
SULLIVANS3
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 01:57 PM CDT
They don't impact me negatively either. Won't need grandfathering. But I would need some lore ranks to get to 150th, and with the reqs as they were (will wait to see what they end up as) I would've been forced to train either performance or crafting to get there. Overall the changes are good and rather low impact. My posts were more 'aww man' than any real complaint.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 04:27 PM CDT
Ok.. someone mentioned and if the situation is the same for armor as it is for lore that shield cannot be used as Armor 1 or 2 I'm pretty upset being shield prime. I train all armor but they are 200-300 behind shield skill.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
ILLIENA
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 04:28 PM CDT
> Ok.. someone mentioned and if the situation is the same for armor as it is for lore that shield cannot be used as Armor 1 or 2 I'm pretty upset being shield prime
From the reqs post:
> Note that the Shield reqs are soft reqs, so Shield Usage can be your 1st or 2nd armor.
From the reqs post:
> Note that the Shield reqs are soft reqs, so Shield Usage can be your 1st or 2nd armor.
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/19/2012 04:29 PM CDT
Yup I just reread it. Very blind today. Disregard and don't listen to me.. just old and senile.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/20/2012 07:07 AM CDT
yeah, i won't need any grandfather either for my paladin except for in lores.
Again, a combination creates this problem. My current top 2 are scholar and teaching, which are being combined.
So all of a sudden I have to go out and train another lore up to level. Feh.
-adon-
"we're doing it for the good of mankind," said the philosophers of murder, waiting for the rest of the world to congratulate them"-Elie Wiesel <the gates of the forest>
Again, a combination creates this problem. My current top 2 are scholar and teaching, which are being combined.
So all of a sudden I have to go out and train another lore up to level. Feh.
-adon-
"we're doing it for the good of mankind," said the philosophers of murder, waiting for the rest of the world to congratulate them"-Elie Wiesel <the gates of the forest>
BEVERAGEK
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/20/2012 07:23 AM CDT
>>So all of a sudden I have to go out and train another lore up to level.
No, you don't. You'll be grandfathered up to level regardless of how many free ranks you'll need.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
No, you don't. You'll be grandfathered up to level regardless of how many free ranks you'll need.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/20/2012 07:30 AM CDT
yeah, but if you're grandfathered up in lore, you lose part of your lore pool, which means you won't get bonused for the armorsmithing, which my paladin wants to get into. So... its off appraising i go. Tactics isn't a problem, way ahead in that from the formula given. So basically i'll have to start appraising everything like a trader.
"we're doing it for the good of mankind," said the philosophers of murder, waiting for the rest of the world to congratulate them"-Elie Wiesel <the gates of the forest>
"we're doing it for the good of mankind," said the philosophers of murder, waiting for the rest of the world to congratulate them"-Elie Wiesel <the gates of the forest>
SULLIVANS3
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/20/2012 07:54 AM CDT
Yeah, my issue wasn't with the need for grandfathering. You all need to remember we aren't all 150th yet...heh. Those of us who aren't still have to train skills to get there. As it stands now, pre 3.0, I have enough lores for 150th. But with teaching and scholarship combining, the lore reqs increasing a tad, and tactics and scholarship being hard reqs, there was nothing left but appraisal, performance and crafting for 1st and 2nd.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
MCMILLANR
Re: Paladin Circle Requirements
03/21/2012 09:16 PM CDT
Yup same with me Kat.. well not for 150th but same boat. Really not interested in crafting and musical so hard to do in combat or hiding. Can you backstab with a flute?
I really hope scholarship becomes soft. I'd even take a hit for higher lore reqs or higher survival reqs just to get scholar soft.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
I really hope scholarship becomes soft. I'd even take a hit for higher lore reqs or higher survival reqs just to get scholar soft.
Raider Walcar Walcars, General of The Locksmith Union
