Why bother with halt when you have stun foe...
Well for one thing, Halt has a minimum preparation of 3. Stun foe's minimum preparation is 8.
With observation and study you will find a couple other reasons to not so quickly disregard Halt... I recently had a couple revelations concerning it...
KARKWUSS
MOOK1
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 10:41 AM CDT
<<Why bother with halt when you have stun foe...
<<Well for one thing, Halt has a minimum preparation of 3. Stun foe's minimum preparation is 8.
Also... I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been brought up already, but its a similar situation for Moon Mages. i.e. why bother with Dazzle when you have Mental Blast? A big part of the answer is they have different contests, giving you more options if something is resistant to one. Stun Foe is SvS while Halt is WvW.
-Evran
* Prophet Hotoke Fuku-Nyorai snuck out of the shadow he was hiding in.
<<Well for one thing, Halt has a minimum preparation of 3. Stun foe's minimum preparation is 8.
Also... I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been brought up already, but its a similar situation for Moon Mages. i.e. why bother with Dazzle when you have Mental Blast? A big part of the answer is they have different contests, giving you more options if something is resistant to one. Stun Foe is SvS while Halt is WvW.
-Evran
* Prophet Hotoke Fuku-Nyorai snuck out of the shadow he was hiding in.
JMF90
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 11:10 AM CDT
They also impose different penalties. Granted, stun is often preferable for exp purposes, but immobilization is a bigger defensive hit.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
WRAITH760
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 04:33 PM CDT
The Defensive penalty for Halt is better. In a PvP situation, your chance of success of landing a Halt is less than that of Stun Foe due to the fact that Halt is WvW and a broader spectrum of your opponents have likely trained Disc/Int/Wis/Cha (even against your MO + DiG) than have trained Stamina (Wherein we also have the benefit of Courage, in addition to MO). Thus, Stun Foe is the safer spell. (And a chain stunner, but those are going away).
I use Halt while hunting to help learn TM. In a dire situation, Halt + Smite is a decent kill card.
None of this has anything to do with why Halt can't be made more convenient to use.
-Iskhhr
""Explanations are ephemeral. They are the sword and shield of the attack, and behind them hides motivation."
I use Halt while hunting to help learn TM. In a dire situation, Halt + Smite is a decent kill card.
None of this has anything to do with why Halt can't be made more convenient to use.
-Iskhhr
""Explanations are ephemeral. They are the sword and shield of the attack, and behind them hides motivation."
PRAXIS
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 05:35 PM CDT
<<The Defensive penalty for Halt is better.
Halted people can still evade. Stunned people do not evade.
Halt does not decrease balance. SF wrecks it.
Halt lasts <= 8 seconds at cap. Stun + balance loss last => 8 seconds if they are still alive.
Halt < SF. Next.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
Halted people can still evade. Stunned people do not evade.
Halt does not decrease balance. SF wrecks it.
Halt lasts <= 8 seconds at cap. Stun + balance loss last => 8 seconds if they are still alive.
Halt < SF. Next.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 05:47 PM CDT
<<Halted people can still evade. Stunned people do not evade.>>
This doesn't sound right... Last thing I remember reading was that stuns penalize defenses indirectly via tanking balance, while immobilization applies an actual debuff.
I could be wrong.
Veralika says, "'att only dun work challenge and was att att like normal hunts."
Veralika says, "I bbad at this."
This doesn't sound right... Last thing I remember reading was that stuns penalize defenses indirectly via tanking balance, while immobilization applies an actual debuff.
I could be wrong.
Veralika says, "'att only dun work challenge and was att att like normal hunts."
Veralika says, "I bbad at this."
PRAXIS
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 06:00 PM CDT
<<Halted people can still evade. Stunned people do not evade.>>
<<This doesn't sound right
I've seen it, as the one who succeeded in the halt, and the one who subsequently wiffed. I've also seen shield/parry still work.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
<<This doesn't sound right
I've seen it, as the one who succeeded in the halt, and the one who subsequently wiffed. I've also seen shield/parry still work.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
VEE-REX
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 06:05 PM CDT
Stunned people CAN evade. Not sure where you got that silly line from.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
PRAXIS
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 06:17 PM CDT
<<Stunned people CAN evade. Not sure where you got that silly line from.
Haven't seen it. Not sure WHY I haven't seen THAT silly line that says xxxx evades while xxxx was stunned.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
Haven't seen it. Not sure WHY I haven't seen THAT silly line that says xxxx evades while xxxx was stunned.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 06:24 PM CDT
If I had to guess I'd say you don't see people evade because of the way combat messaging works. Evasion is heavily penalized by tanked balance, to the point where shield or parry have to take up most of the slack, making those the defenses that show up in the messaging.
It doesn't mean evasion isn't working, it just means another defense is doing most of the work.
Veralika says, "'att only dun work challenge and was att att like normal hunts."
Veralika says, "I bbad at this."
It doesn't mean evasion isn't working, it just means another defense is doing most of the work.
Veralika says, "'att only dun work challenge and was att att like normal hunts."
Veralika says, "I bbad at this."
VEE-REX
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 06:58 PM CDT
>>Haven't seen it. Not sure WHY I haven't seen THAT silly line that says xxxx evades while xxxx was stunned.
I'm not sure if I read it all right.
Have a MM with high mentals and low weapons (plenty around) MB you and fire away.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I'm not sure if I read it all right.
Have a MM with high mentals and low weapons (plenty around) MB you and fire away.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
JMF90
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 07:27 PM CDT
There's actually zero defensive penalty for being stunned. However, being stunned will tank your balance, and bad balance is a defensive penalty. Immobilization doesn't directly affect balance like a stun does, but it does add a defensive penalty.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
VEE-REX
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 07:31 PM CDT
There is no 'evade while stunned' line. There is just evade.
Messaging on the contest doesn't determine whether or not the target is stunned or normal. It only reflects the actual results.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Messaging on the contest doesn't determine whether or not the target is stunned or normal. It only reflects the actual results.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
PRAXIS
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 08:45 PM CDT
<<There's actually zero defensive penalty for being stunned. However, being stunned will tank your balance, and bad balance is a defensive penalty. Immobilization doesn't directly affect balance like a stun does, but it does add a defensive penalty.
I retract my statement from #3439 "Halted people can still evade. Stunned people do not evade."
After a couple of tests with a Paladin halting and SFing me against a low weapon MM and a decent level thief at melee, it's more than clear that both halted and stunned people can evade. It's also pretty clear that halted people are easier to hit than stunned people.
The JMF post referenced matches my findings.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
I retract my statement from #3439 "Halted people can still evade. Stunned people do not evade."
After a couple of tests with a Paladin halting and SFing me against a low weapon MM and a decent level thief at melee, it's more than clear that both halted and stunned people can evade. It's also pretty clear that halted people are easier to hit than stunned people.
The JMF post referenced matches my findings.
Hows that hope and change working out for you?
RAB1DW0MBAT
Re: Halt update
04/12/2010 08:58 PM CDT
Most paladins are going to find SFing people/creatures a lot easier than halting them. Unless you're.. odd. Then whatever. SF still is just a better spell overall. The contest seems easier, regardless of the stats lining up right. I'm human, I'm pretty even as far as stats go. Courage and Heroic Strength give bigger bonuses anyway, at least thats my impression.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
WOODHAMR3
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 07:38 AM CDT
<<Halt < SF. Next.>>
This is not the case in the least bit when it comes to pvp. Halt is the clear winner- the defensive penalty is huge.
As far as pve, SF is the way to go.
-Mr. Glemm
This is not the case in the least bit when it comes to pvp. Halt is the clear winner- the defensive penalty is huge.
As far as pve, SF is the way to go.
-Mr. Glemm
WRAITH760
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 10:14 AM CDT
<< Most paladins are going to find SFing people/creatures a lot easier than halting them. Unless you're.. odd. Then whatever. SF still is just a better spell overall. The contest seems easier, regardless of the stats lining up right. I'm human, I'm pretty even as far as stats go. Courage and Heroic Strength give bigger bonuses anyway, at least thats my impression.
>>
MO should give a bonus to Disc on par with or greater than HES does to Strength, likely the latter. I don't know of and haven't haven't done mysself any concrete testing.
I am 100% agreement with Korsik that SF is far more favorable to our strengths/buffs than Halt. However, the Halt defensive penalty is bigger.
Essentially, it comes down to target choice. I'm sure not going to try and Halt an equal circle Moon Mage - I will probably be able to pummel them with SF easily, though.
In my opinion (In a PvP conflict, since PvE isn't really an issue - You can use whichever. I tend to snap SFs more than Halt) If you feel you can land Halt, go for the bigger defensive penalty and then smite them. If not, play it safe and use SF.
-Iskhhr
""Explanations are ephemeral. They are the sword and shield of the attack, and behind them hides motivation."
>>
MO should give a bonus to Disc on par with or greater than HES does to Strength, likely the latter. I don't know of and haven't haven't done mysself any concrete testing.
I am 100% agreement with Korsik that SF is far more favorable to our strengths/buffs than Halt. However, the Halt defensive penalty is bigger.
Essentially, it comes down to target choice. I'm sure not going to try and Halt an equal circle Moon Mage - I will probably be able to pummel them with SF easily, though.
In my opinion (In a PvP conflict, since PvE isn't really an issue - You can use whichever. I tend to snap SFs more than Halt) If you feel you can land Halt, go for the bigger defensive penalty and then smite them. If not, play it safe and use SF.
-Iskhhr
""Explanations are ephemeral. They are the sword and shield of the attack, and behind them hides motivation."
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 11:08 AM CDT
You have your choice between the "You are very poorly balanced" defensive penalty or the "You are immobile" defensive penalty.
As far as I can tell, the "You are poorly balanced" defensive penalty is going to impact someone's evasion primarily, and then parry/shield to a lesser extent.
I'm not really sure if the immobilization penalty has the same evasion bias as being stunned, I would imagine that it does. I also believe that the penalty associated with immbilization is greater across the board. But I'd guess that the total difference between the two penalties isn't all that big.
If you accept the above, then you are left with the issue of usability.
You can boost your Str/Stam to help with the SF contest, you can boost your disc/intel to help with the halt contest so i'd say the 'one is easier to cast than the other' arguement is a subjective one.
For my money, if i'm backtraining something, instead of going through the hassle of trying to halt/SF whatever i'm hunting, i'll just go hunt something else thats at-level of what i'm trying to backtrain.
And for PvP, I primarily use my disablers for getting from missle to pole, either will work but for me SF's duration tends to be longer so thats what I go with, lets you get in an extra attack or two before it wears off.
Just thinking out loud.
-Landros
As far as I can tell, the "You are poorly balanced" defensive penalty is going to impact someone's evasion primarily, and then parry/shield to a lesser extent.
I'm not really sure if the immobilization penalty has the same evasion bias as being stunned, I would imagine that it does. I also believe that the penalty associated with immbilization is greater across the board. But I'd guess that the total difference between the two penalties isn't all that big.
If you accept the above, then you are left with the issue of usability.
You can boost your Str/Stam to help with the SF contest, you can boost your disc/intel to help with the halt contest so i'd say the 'one is easier to cast than the other' arguement is a subjective one.
For my money, if i'm backtraining something, instead of going through the hassle of trying to halt/SF whatever i'm hunting, i'll just go hunt something else thats at-level of what i'm trying to backtrain.
And for PvP, I primarily use my disablers for getting from missle to pole, either will work but for me SF's duration tends to be longer so thats what I go with, lets you get in an extra attack or two before it wears off.
Just thinking out loud.
-Landros
RAB1DW0MBAT
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 11:11 AM CDT
>>i'll just go hunt something else thats at-level of what i'm trying to backtrain.
Best bet, imo. I agree.
>>And for PvP, I primarily use my disablers for getting from missle to pole, either will work but for me SF's duration tends to be longer so thats what I go with, lets you get in an extra attack or two before it wears off.
For PVP, I chain Stun Foe while getting full aim on my LX with Righteous Wrath up. And I shoot them in the face. (See thread in Complaints.)
Because shooting people in the face is fun. And profitable.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
Best bet, imo. I agree.
>>And for PvP, I primarily use my disablers for getting from missle to pole, either will work but for me SF's duration tends to be longer so thats what I go with, lets you get in an extra attack or two before it wears off.
For PVP, I chain Stun Foe while getting full aim on my LX with Righteous Wrath up. And I shoot them in the face. (See thread in Complaints.)
Because shooting people in the face is fun. And profitable.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 11:32 AM CDT
>>For PVP, I chain Stun Foe while getting full aim on my LX with Righteous Wrath up. And I shoot them in the face. (See thread in Complaints.)
Chain stuns certainly do combo nice with aiming (and pretty much everything else). I do feel bad about doing it though (except to Clerics). And its on its way out.
-Landros
Chain stuns certainly do combo nice with aiming (and pretty much everything else). I do feel bad about doing it though (except to Clerics). And its on its way out.
-Landros
VEE-REX
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 11:32 AM CDT
If I had to choose which spell I hate the most (meaning it works better on my character) then it'd be Stun Foe. SF is annoying because of the chain-stun capabilities as well as how it hurts balance. Bad balance is extremely noticable on thrown weapons and makes them perform poorly.
I will say that other than dancing, I don't have any ways to defend against Halt. Whereas a berserk can almost make me un-stun-foe-able from most Paladins.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I will say that other than dancing, I don't have any ways to defend against Halt. Whereas a berserk can almost make me un-stun-foe-able from most Paladins.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 11:37 AM CDT
>>I chain Stun Foe
Prepare to start liking Halt a lot more, then, because chaining the same disabler over and over again is probably going away with combat 3.0.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
Prepare to start liking Halt a lot more, then, because chaining the same disabler over and over again is probably going away with combat 3.0.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
RAB1DW0MBAT
Re: Halt update
04/13/2010 01:05 PM CDT
Well, I never feel bad about doing it because it makes me giggle.
And well, thank god my stats are pretty even for WvW and SvS. So I can do either one just fine if the situation arises.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
And well, thank god my stats are pretty even for WvW and SvS. So I can do either one just fine if the situation arises.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
JCAGLEX2
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 04:09 PM CDT
It would be nice if a GM could pop their head in here and let us know whats going on with halt.
I'm pretty sure its intended to default to what you're facing which it isn't doing.
The SF vs Halt discussion is kinda irrelevant as they do different things. The people talking about Halt vs SF in PvP should try halting someone you're chain stunning right before you fire. I think you'll find that the two work very effectively together if you SF someone until they fall over, halt them, then attack.
I'm pretty sure its intended to default to what you're facing which it isn't doing.
The SF vs Halt discussion is kinda irrelevant as they do different things. The people talking about Halt vs SF in PvP should try halting someone you're chain stunning right before you fire. I think you'll find that the two work very effectively together if you SF someone until they fall over, halt them, then attack.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 04:20 PM CDT
>>The SF vs Halt discussion is kinda irrelevant as they do different things. The people talking about Halt vs SF in PvP should try halting someone you're chain stunning right before you fire. I think you'll find that the two work very effectively together if you SF someone until they fall over, halt them, then attack.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Are you saying I could easily program two spell macros to snap-cast both of these powerful spells with the single spress of a button, and find fantastic use for both spells in both PvP and PvE with only minimal intellectual expenditure regarding the probable stat distribution of my opponent?
You, sir, are talking crazy. Why would I go through the trouble of taking five seconds to program macros and five minutes to study the difference between WvW and SvS contests when I could make broad, sweeping generalizations that mandate that ONE AND ONLY ONE of the two spells has ANY USE AT ALL because of it's OP'ed ability to chain together infinitely, an ability which will be going away soon, thus forcing me to use all of the compentent tools in my arsenal?
Crazy talk sir, crazy talk. You forget the first rule of Dragonrealms billboard discussion: if it isn't overpowered, it's useless.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Are you saying I could easily program two spell macros to snap-cast both of these powerful spells with the single spress of a button, and find fantastic use for both spells in both PvP and PvE with only minimal intellectual expenditure regarding the probable stat distribution of my opponent?
You, sir, are talking crazy. Why would I go through the trouble of taking five seconds to program macros and five minutes to study the difference between WvW and SvS contests when I could make broad, sweeping generalizations that mandate that ONE AND ONLY ONE of the two spells has ANY USE AT ALL because of it's OP'ed ability to chain together infinitely, an ability which will be going away soon, thus forcing me to use all of the compentent tools in my arsenal?
Crazy talk sir, crazy talk. You forget the first rule of Dragonrealms billboard discussion: if it isn't overpowered, it's useless.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 04:28 PM CDT
There's still Issues I need to discuss with Dartenian over how the Paladin first strike penalty is meant to interact with the magic system. As much as this is a personal annoyance for me, I'd rather keep Halt technically a beneficial spell for now than start screwing with the Paladin guild penalty without clear direction.
The targeting issue you are seeing is due to this -- beneficial spells do not default target to your enemies.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The targeting issue you are seeing is due to this -- beneficial spells do not default target to your enemies.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
KARKWUSS
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 04:59 PM CDT
Thanks for clarification on that... I do like how Halt is considered beneficial currently... it really is after all... Halt was to be used originally as an alternate choice to behdeading someone who was stealing, harassing, and/or attacking someone other than yourself... i say the spell should have considerance for this type of use... and not inflict us with a first-strike penalty that offense spells grant... However I feel if you Halt someone... and then attack them with any other offensive attack it should increase that penalty applied.
Keep Halt as a tool of Justice, we have so few... This also creates greater distinction between Halt and SF. Diversity in spells is always a good thing.
Keep Halt as a tool of Justice, we have so few... This also creates greater distinction between Halt and SF. Diversity in spells is always a good thing.
JMF90
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 05:01 PM CDT
>Keep Halt as a tool of Justice, we have so few... This also creates greater distinction between Halt and SF. Diversity in spells is always a good thing.
Uh, it's not staying this way, Armifer just wants to get the first strike settings correct.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
Uh, it's not staying this way, Armifer just wants to get the first strike settings correct.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
RAB1DW0MBAT
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 05:06 PM CDT
You know what else is crazy talk? Bolding certain words to try to emphasize your point that really is just an opinion while you tell people their opinions are wrong. But Diminishedangel also had a lot of blah blah blah wharrgarbl. And that was pretty much it.
At this point in time, halt sucks compared to stun foe. If that gets changed, fixed, whatevere'd. Okay. But right now, halt sucks compared to stun foe. I'm not sure how else to say that. Talking about changes coming in the future doesn't change that fact. Less rage, more logic. Thx.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
At this point in time, halt sucks compared to stun foe. If that gets changed, fixed, whatevere'd. Okay. But right now, halt sucks compared to stun foe. I'm not sure how else to say that. Talking about changes coming in the future doesn't change that fact. Less rage, more logic. Thx.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
RUSSEASBY
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 05:20 PM CDT
<< Less rage, more logic >>
Said in a post containing zero logic, and all "rage"? Saying something sucks is certainly not "logic".
Said in a post containing zero logic, and all "rage"? Saying something sucks is certainly not "logic".
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 05:20 PM CDT
>>Thanks for clarification on that... I do like how Halt is considered beneficial currently... it really is after all... Halt was to be used originally as an alternate choice to behdeading someone who was stealing, harassing, and/or attacking someone other than yourself...
No, absolutely not. Not even Hypnotize is considered a beneficial spell, and it does even less to hinder the target.
Any spell that is cast to the detriment of the target is an offensive spell -- the few hold overs that exist do so for various weird, technical reasons.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
No, absolutely not. Not even Hypnotize is considered a beneficial spell, and it does even less to hinder the target.
Any spell that is cast to the detriment of the target is an offensive spell -- the few hold overs that exist do so for various weird, technical reasons.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
RAB1DW0MBAT
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 06:17 PM CDT
>>Said in a post containing zero logic, and all "rage"? Saying something sucks is certainly not "logic".
I try not to rant and rave in bold text. I'm not sure how else to say it. Chain stunning someone is better than halting them. Yes, yes, before you say it, they're planning on taking away chain stunning. I get it. But as for right now, you can still chain stun someone. Its better than halt. And most likely, as a paladin, your stats are going to be more stacked for SvS than WvW, especially when compared to other player characters. As I've stated before. Which means stunning someone over and over again with Stun Foe will be easier than halting them.
If that makes no sense to you, then I'm really not sure how else to spell it out. If that's the case, then you really have no ground to stand upon when saying someone else lacks logic. Have a pleasant evening.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
I try not to rant and rave in bold text. I'm not sure how else to say it. Chain stunning someone is better than halting them. Yes, yes, before you say it, they're planning on taking away chain stunning. I get it. But as for right now, you can still chain stun someone. Its better than halt. And most likely, as a paladin, your stats are going to be more stacked for SvS than WvW, especially when compared to other player characters. As I've stated before. Which means stunning someone over and over again with Stun Foe will be easier than halting them.
If that makes no sense to you, then I'm really not sure how else to spell it out. If that's the case, then you really have no ground to stand upon when saying someone else lacks logic. Have a pleasant evening.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
WOODHAMR3
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 06:56 PM CDT
<<Chain stunning someone is better than halting them. Yes, yes, before you say it, they're planning on taking away chain stunning. I get it. But as for right now, you can still chain stun someone. Its better than halt. And most likely, as a paladin, your stats are going to be more stacked for SvS than WvW, especially when compared to other player characters>>
From what I've experienced, even when stunned and halfway prone, a target is more prone to evade than if they are halted. SF is nice especially with the fact that it makes opponents drop spells, but for close-circled contests, I'll always rely on halt with a capped MO and DIG (which is huge).
-Mr. Glemm
From what I've experienced, even when stunned and halfway prone, a target is more prone to evade than if they are halted. SF is nice especially with the fact that it makes opponents drop spells, but for close-circled contests, I'll always rely on halt with a capped MO and DIG (which is huge).
-Mr. Glemm
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Halt update
04/14/2010 07:26 PM CDT
>>point that really is just an opinion while you tell people their opinions are wrong
Well yes, it's opinion, and as fancy and facecious as I made it sound, I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise. But seriously, Halt and SF make a good combo. On top of that, Halt > Stun Foe in many circumstances, whether you're talking about PvP or PvE, and several examples have been posted so far.
If, gun to my head, I had to choose, sure I wouldn't disagree that SF is more useful on a normal basis, but I think we need to stop throwing the word "suck" around so much. That was my point.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
Well yes, it's opinion, and as fancy and facecious as I made it sound, I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise. But seriously, Halt and SF make a good combo. On top of that, Halt > Stun Foe in many circumstances, whether you're talking about PvP or PvE, and several examples have been posted so far.
If, gun to my head, I had to choose, sure I wouldn't disagree that SF is more useful on a normal basis, but I think we need to stop throwing the word "suck" around so much. That was my point.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
KARKWUSS
Re: Halt update
04/15/2010 02:45 AM CDT
Beneficial to the target... no. Beneficial for us, yes. Wasn't really saying it should be considered a beneficial spell. I was more hoping that a first strike penalty could be avoided for using it in certain warranted situations... I figure it is probibly a big time consumer though in making this possible and may be required to have the penalty anyways. If too difficult I'd rather it cause the penalty then slow work in other areas. First strike and even causing the death of someone isn't so horrible that you can't work to redeem yourself in a reasonable timeframe. If you want to kill a lot of people, then this isn't the guild for you anyways. It sure would make it easier to have this spell defaulting though. I'd accept first strike in PvP just so I could have it default in my hunting.
Oh and in speaking of penalties... how about incurring our soul hit after being found Guilty of a crime, and not just when we are first thrown in jail. Make it worse if we plead innocent and are truely not, even more harsh if we are found innocent and were in reality very guilty. Justice should be more exacting upon the upholders of it, with consideration granted for "self-defense" and "in defense of others" senarios. With everyone able to get social outrage now, it would help avoid those unwarranted soul hits related to charges involved with that as well.
Oh and in speaking of penalties... how about incurring our soul hit after being found Guilty of a crime, and not just when we are first thrown in jail. Make it worse if we plead innocent and are truely not, even more harsh if we are found innocent and were in reality very guilty. Justice should be more exacting upon the upholders of it, with consideration granted for "self-defense" and "in defense of others" senarios. With everyone able to get social outrage now, it would help avoid those unwarranted soul hits related to charges involved with that as well.
WOODHAMR3
Re: Halt update
04/15/2010 09:10 AM CDT
<<Oh and in speaking of penalties... how about incurring our soul hit after being found Guilty of a crime, and not just when we are first thrown in jail. Make it worse if we plead innocent and are truely not, even more harsh if we are found innocent and were in reality very guilty.>>
If you're in front of a court you're guilty anyway. I know you could basically say it's a system limitation, but facts are facts. If you plead guilty, soul hit. If you plead innocent, bigger soul hit for lying.
Or, we could just keep it the way it is now.
-Mr. Glemm
If you're in front of a court you're guilty anyway. I know you could basically say it's a system limitation, but facts are facts. If you plead guilty, soul hit. If you plead innocent, bigger soul hit for lying.
Or, we could just keep it the way it is now.
-Mr. Glemm
RAB1DW0MBAT
Re: Halt update
04/15/2010 09:13 AM CDT
I plead innocent every time. It usually works, and it always worked when I'm arrested for murder.
Being a paladin of Botolf has its benefits. Whee.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
Being a paladin of Botolf has its benefits. Whee.
- Fist of the Heavens Korsik Rippentropp, Aegis of Justice
I warned you before I'm addicted to war
I was praying for Armageddon on the day I was born
CASTLEB
Re: Halt update
04/15/2010 03:52 PM CDT
I think we should get a soul hit for posting dumb suggestions.
~Silus
Banner first, ask questions later.
WRAITH760
Re: Halt update
04/19/2010 02:37 PM CDT
<< h and in speaking of penalties... how about incurring our soul hit after being found Guilty of a crime, and not just when we are first thrown in jail. Make it worse if we plead innocent and are truely not, even more harsh if we are found innocent and were in reality very guilty. Justice should be more exacting upon the upholders of it, with consideration granted for "self-defense" and "in defense of others" senarios. With everyone able to get social outrage now, it would help avoid those unwarranted soul hits related to charges involved with that as well. >>
Yes, that's exactly what we need. A more stringent, annoying soul system!
If soul hits are going to be such a damper on PvP combat such that Paladins are forced to be strongly PvE, PvE should perhaps be a little more dynamic and interesting instead of what it is now. This is coming, mind you, from someone who has basically repudiated PvP because he doesn't desire to play ranged weapon hide and seek.
-Iskhhr
""Explanations are ephemeral. They are the sword and shield of the attack, and behind them hides motivation."
Yes, that's exactly what we need. A more stringent, annoying soul system!
If soul hits are going to be such a damper on PvP combat such that Paladins are forced to be strongly PvE, PvE should perhaps be a little more dynamic and interesting instead of what it is now. This is coming, mind you, from someone who has basically repudiated PvP because he doesn't desire to play ranged weapon hide and seek.
-Iskhhr
""Explanations are ephemeral. They are the sword and shield of the attack, and behind them hides motivation."
