>>Aspasia enters the grand meeting hall of the Crossing Paladin Guild.

>>A lull hushes over the crowd, as she ascends to the podium, thick stacks of parchment in hand.

>>Aspasia clears her throat. With a loud voice she begins her lecture, as the audience of fully armored paladins, prepares to listen.


Aspasia lectures. "Facts are relative; every person has their own take on where the facts lie. Everything we believe and hold to be true is essentially a theory, that is unless it can be proven and little outside the boundaries of science and mathematics can be proven beyond doubt. Even many intellectuals argue about what the "facts" of their research say. Calling a theory for what it is, a theory doesn?t undermine its impact. However two theories presented side by side, need evidence and reason applied to them. Let's explore this subject a little more, shall we?"

"I could state that something is always true, and yes, that would be my opinion. But why should I align my truth to accommodate yours, without any good argumentation or debate? Isn't someone else?s position on this issue ALLSO an opinion? I say that truth is truth, meaning that it is objectively absolute. Someone else says it's not. Both are Opinions, but both can't be right at the same time. The "window" cannot be open for me and closed for you. If indeed it is open, it's open for both of us, if indeed it is closed, then it's closed for both of us. Simply saying the matter of the "window" is subjective doesn?t help resolve the situation at all, nor will it effect whether the ?window? is actually open or not."

"Arrogance doesn?t come from having strong views about "truth"; it comes from having the wrong views about how to treat people who share it with you. Humility doesn't come from not having any convictions; it comes from having the right convictions about the importance of respect and politeness. You don't suddenly become tolerant because you don't champion your own beliefs, you become tolerant when you tolerate and respect those who do."

"Truth is always absolute because truth represents the full sum of reality. Truth would not be truth if Truth was not absolute. So the question isn?t whether truth is absolute, rather the question is whether truth truly exists at all. Reality in itself is perhaps the greatest proof of absolute truth and if one had a strong understanding of the concept of reality, the idea of truth would not be that difficult to grasp."

"Many things are relative, but are all things relative? Remember what seems to be relative to you, me or anyone else, never actually changes in respect to what is real. What is real will always be real regardless of whether we correctly perceive it or not. So to be intellectually honest we must admit that what seems at times to be relative doesn?t prove that everything is relative, but rather things happen to be relative only because our varying perceptions make it seem that way. What may seem relative to you actually has a set truth per its existence in reality. Viewing a particular issue from a different angle will not change its fixed universal position, or its existence. For instance if I was standing north of Leth and you were standing south, and someone told us to point to the city, you would point north, I would point south but in the end we'd both be pointing at the same fixed spot. The cities fixed position never changes regardless of our relative position to it, or our particular perspectives. The city of Leth Deriel is still at the same exact spot. Our particular opinions about its position may both be true, but the point is people and their perspectives are the only relative factor here, not the city of Leth. This does not imply that mutually exclusive opinions can be correct at the same time, indeed such a suggestion borders on absurd. The point of the example was merely to demonstrate how the only thing that changes is the perspective of the two people pointing. Regardless of how either you or I saw the city it never moved. Much like the idea of Truth. So you see Truth never changes only our perspectives. Therefore Truth is absolute; the problem lies in our mortal ability to perceive it correctly."

"Truth never becomes outdated either. Simply because we learned something 150 years ago doesn?t necessarily mean it's obsolete. Frankly respect tends to follow ideas that have survived through the ages and been tested by time over new fangled fad's of thinking. The walkway of time is littered with the remains of irrelevant philosophies. Respect and credence should be paid towards the ideas which have thrived and been proven again and again to be timeless pearls of wisdom."

"I don't think right and wrong boils down to a preference. I think right and wrong, if you believe in it (which I do), is bigger than just someone's particular whim. Just because I've decided that I'm really not Elven but actually am the worlds first living mug of Dwarven Ale, doesn?t mean that I'm right simply because I prefer to think I'm right. The truth that I'm actually an elf doesn?t change, simply because I think I'm a mug of ale."

"Right and wrong are relative only in regards to what we think. It is impossible to prove that two people who have two very different opinions will always be right all of the time. In my pursuit of common sense, I notice the fact that when two people have different opinions that can't be harmonized, that usually means at least one person is wrong. Whether or not the person realizes it."

"Yes individuals tend to determine what is right and wrong for themselves, yes these determinations can be vastly different, but one's mere belief is not enough to alter the very reality of the instance. For example, referring back to my earlier illustration, one person thinks the window is open, another thinks the window is shut. Both think they're right, both think the other is wrong. Does the fact they think they know the truth, actually affect whether or not the window is open or closed? Despite the common cliche? arriving at the Truth is, in fact, of more importance than the actually journey of discovery. Let?s think rationally here, who would say the search for a healer is better than being healed?"

"While opinions are oft times limited by mortal perceptions, perceptions are oft times controlled and altered by mortal emotions. However, bear in mind that emotions aren?t the end-all-be-all of truth.. While they can heavily obscure and dominate our beliefs, we are not slaves to our emotions. Because we have a higher mind, and a unique intellect, we are, unlike mere beasts, able to transcend our impulses. If we can transcend our behavioral impulses, then I contend we can also, just as easily, transcend our emotions, if we can transcend our emotions, then we can theoretically make decisions free from, or at least in spite of, emotional influence. Granted this is neither an easy or pleasant thing to do at times, unless we have perfect emotions; emotions that are always 100% appropriate and correct in an objective and fair sense. Of course we all know that such a notion is silly at best. Emotions while a beautiful aspect of life, can, quite often, cloud our better judgment and drive our perceptions. In short they are both a blessing and a curse."

"Keep in mind opinions aren?t always wrong. Nothing is completely irrefutable; even facts aren?t always free from objection and argument. The truth is, even facts are matters of opinion, because we all have our own views on where the facts lie. The bottoms line is that everything can be deconstructed to a mere opinion. While I'll agree that no single person understands and knows EVERYthing, I don't think it's wise to assume we can never know ANYthing. The fact we as mortals can never understand or know everything doesn?t mean reality becomes irrelevant."

"Even though we don't know all the answers, or will ever know them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because we can never know the truth about certain issues, absolutely, without doubt, doesn't mean, necessarily, that the truth does not exist. The idea here is that some concepts and truths may not always be contingent on our understanding and agreement of them."

"Open minded, does not mean weak minded. Don't confuse someone's obligation to listen, with their right to sort truth from fiction. Open-minded means being willing to listen and think about someone's idea or view. Being strong minded, means being able to apply wisdom and logic to the idea, and of course this means not everyone will see eye-to-eye."

Aspasia says. "Thank you for attending, honorable guardians of the realms. This concludes my lecture for this week. Next weeks lecture will be THE COSMIC BALLANCE, and NEUTRALITY, it will be held at the Crossing Guild again."

>>Aspasia concludes her lecture. With a gracefull bow, she descends the podium, after dismissing the audience.



Brittany (...the player of Aspasia Undojen'pelci)

>>Laythor's face twists in agony and he cries out, as acid burns away at his right eye.

You point and laugh at Laythor!

<<If facts are relative how can truth be absolute?>>

There can't. Absolute truth does not exist. There is only verisimilitude (which itself changes based on perception),

--Just a "clueless" Squire

<<Truth, however is not based on sense, only our opinions are, therefore "truth" is not limited by our relative perceptions. The trick is finding what "truth" is, inspite of our varying opinions and limited senses.>>

Wrong. All you have stated is that someone can find truth despite various opinions and limited senses. However, because one cannot escape their perseption and senses (they are different), one can never know this illusion called "truth". All an individual can ever do is approximate what they hold "truth" to be, hence verisimilitude.

--Just a "clueless" Squire

Truth is a tricky subject, simply because on a subject such as this there are lines that must be drawn. IG truth, be it perceptive, absolute or erroneous are just that, yet some of the discussion seems to be spilling into a RL context, where indeed many consider there to be no absolute truth. The problem arises when one finds himself in a religious setting, such as I find myself in, and where absolute truth is presented to someone, yet for that to be true in one's life, there must be a belief in it.

The same can be said about the Truth in DR. For there to be absolute truth, one must have the belief in what is unfathomable. As Paladins we are more succeptable to this, as all of us have an interpretation of what it means to be a Paladin, how the gods affect our actions, how facts are gathered and lastly, how truth is reached. Yet, our daily actions, amidst all these variables are based on the truths that are the cornerstone of the guild. Since we must present ourselves in harm's way, an pit our abilities, which are all godly related in some way shape or form, we must, in order to use these, believe in these unfathomable beings. The wordly effect of this belief, is presented as Truth... as my holy hammer slams your chest. And all things considered, one cannot sanely state that Truth is relative when you are getting a hammer of light to your chest.

Ecoles
PS: take all of this with a grain of salt.

<<You can't logically argue against the existence of absolute truth. To argue against something is to establish that a truth exists. You cannot argue against absolute truth unless an absolute truth is the basis of your argument.>>

Thats not exactly accurate. While the internal mental representation may exist the external reality does not necessarily exist. Your argument is like saying that because I argue that there is no such thing as a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback factory equipped with a 1999 Ford 5.0 V-8 then it must by default exist. In my mind I can put together what that would be like, in reality it does not exist (even though I have seen a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback retrofitted with a 1999 Ford 5.0 V-8).

Point is something need not exist in external reality to argue that it does not exist.

As per your examples I'm late for a meeting and really don't want to get into them. Heh

--Just a "clueless" Squire

<<Then they turn around and grade the papers!>>

Hrmm I think you just found absolute truth =P

--Just a "clueless" Squire