True meaning of what a paladin is. Favorless deader at adanf. Tyryan doesnt have AG, gives up a spell slot to learn it AND then gives up a favor. Deader had offered 10 plat but Tyryan told him to keep it. I tip my helm to Tyryan for this amazingly unselfish act. Does this guild good to have people like him in it.
Shivus
SAMMID
EAGLECLAW
Re: Tyryan
04/30/2003 11:53 AM CDT
I agree fully that making that much sacrifice to aid another is a good thing. I also agree that Tyryan is an excellent model of a Paladin. Heck.. he taught me when I was starting out and I've used his actions (and others) as a model for the Paladin I am. And boy, am I GLAD he's back with us again.
Plus, not taking coin for it is another "atta boy" in my book.
However, that said, there is a part of this that bears discussion.
Resolved:A "good" Paladin is always willing to "sacrifice" and help others without thought of self-enrichment.
At first blush, that statement seems appropriate and could be debated PRO and CON for a while. However, my personal position is.. "It depends on the 'others' I'm asked to help". For clarification, there was a deader in Clerics, who's friend gwethed that he died favorless before said friend could take him to get favor orbs. Sounds reasonable. I'd be willing to help a young 2nd or 3rd or maybe 4th circle who's friend was showing him around, how things work, how to fight and gain experience.. and how to advance circle within their guild.. but didn't get him to the favor spot before "bad luck" dropped the kid.
But further questioning indicated this "youngin" was a 6th circle. He had enough time to hunt and train long enough to meet guild requirements for FIVE additional circles after he started.. but didn't have time to run by the favor spot?
To me, that's reason enough NOT to go give a favor. Maybe next time, that "body behind the character" will realize there's more to the Realms than being taken "twink hunting" by a friend.. given armor.. and listening to classes to circle rapidly. He got to 6th circle that fast.. he can do it again after he walks.
Bottom line. Just because we CAN give a favor.. and it is a "good" thing to do.. it is not always the RIGHT thing to do and Paladins should never be shunned or thought bad for NOT running to give a favor just because someone asked.
Redarch
Plus, not taking coin for it is another "atta boy" in my book.
However, that said, there is a part of this that bears discussion.
Resolved:A "good" Paladin is always willing to "sacrifice" and help others without thought of self-enrichment.
At first blush, that statement seems appropriate and could be debated PRO and CON for a while. However, my personal position is.. "It depends on the 'others' I'm asked to help". For clarification, there was a deader in Clerics, who's friend gwethed that he died favorless before said friend could take him to get favor orbs. Sounds reasonable. I'd be willing to help a young 2nd or 3rd or maybe 4th circle who's friend was showing him around, how things work, how to fight and gain experience.. and how to advance circle within their guild.. but didn't get him to the favor spot before "bad luck" dropped the kid.
But further questioning indicated this "youngin" was a 6th circle. He had enough time to hunt and train long enough to meet guild requirements for FIVE additional circles after he started.. but didn't have time to run by the favor spot?
To me, that's reason enough NOT to go give a favor. Maybe next time, that "body behind the character" will realize there's more to the Realms than being taken "twink hunting" by a friend.. given armor.. and listening to classes to circle rapidly. He got to 6th circle that fast.. he can do it again after he walks.
Bottom line. Just because we CAN give a favor.. and it is a "good" thing to do.. it is not always the RIGHT thing to do and Paladins should never be shunned or thought bad for NOT running to give a favor just because someone asked.
Redarch
AKERMAN
Re: Tyryan
04/30/2003 05:36 PM CDT
Everyone deserves a second chance. It's possible that the sixth circle youngin actually did make it through life without favors until that point (especially if he's a cleric. I was astounded how fast my character could advance in that guild the one time I played a cleric), and didn't know. I would suggest that the first time, the honorable thing to do is help him. If he dies again without getting favors, he should have learned his lesson before.
~Kashik,
...it's up to you after that...
"God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God."
-www.peepresearch.org
~Kashik,
...it's up to you after that...
"God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God."
-www.peepresearch.org
DRLIGHT
Re: Tyryan
04/30/2003 05:48 PM CDT
<<Everyone deserves a second chance. It's possible that the sixth circle youngin actually did make it through life without favors until that point (especially if he's a cleric. I was astounded how fast my character could advance in that guild the one time I played a cleric), and didn't know. I would suggest that the first time, the honorable thing to do is help him. If he dies again without getting favors, he should have learned his lesson before.>>
Very true, but you also gotta ask yourself what about the whispers and voices you hear in your head from the gods warning you about the death system when above 2nd circle and need for favors. Or even the fact that the guild leaders remind you to get favors once at 2nd circle. Granted I give people (the young only) the first time chance of thinking ok maybe they didn't ask anyone, or take the time to look so I'll help em this time and show em how to get favors.
But then you have the higher up people who know about the death system, who know about how to get and what favors are and how they save your life from road, and how they take it for granted and go out hunting knowing they have 0 favors and exspect help because they are dead and we are paladins. These people I always felt could walk, but I've been abit nicer and instead of saying just go walk, I offer them the favor for 20 plat. I've always said if you wish to hunt with lack of inteligence you should be ready and willing to give up something if you wish to live once again.
However, there are circumstances in which higher lvls may have no favors as well. In these cases ie: invasions, someone acting them needlessly or some pvp incident, I give these favors away for free because they couldn't help the deaths.
In Tyryan's case he did a very noble thing and helped a person who truely deserved it and he makes a great paladin because of it. Congrats man and good job.
--Weebles wobble but the don't fall down! or do they?!?
Very true, but you also gotta ask yourself what about the whispers and voices you hear in your head from the gods warning you about the death system when above 2nd circle and need for favors. Or even the fact that the guild leaders remind you to get favors once at 2nd circle. Granted I give people (the young only) the first time chance of thinking ok maybe they didn't ask anyone, or take the time to look so I'll help em this time and show em how to get favors.
But then you have the higher up people who know about the death system, who know about how to get and what favors are and how they save your life from road, and how they take it for granted and go out hunting knowing they have 0 favors and exspect help because they are dead and we are paladins. These people I always felt could walk, but I've been abit nicer and instead of saying just go walk, I offer them the favor for 20 plat. I've always said if you wish to hunt with lack of inteligence you should be ready and willing to give up something if you wish to live once again.
However, there are circumstances in which higher lvls may have no favors as well. In these cases ie: invasions, someone acting them needlessly or some pvp incident, I give these favors away for free because they couldn't help the deaths.
In Tyryan's case he did a very noble thing and helped a person who truely deserved it and he makes a great paladin because of it. Congrats man and good job.
--Weebles wobble but the don't fall down! or do they?!?
EAGLECLAW
Re: Tyryan
04/30/2003 07:40 PM CDT
Kashik,
>>Everyone deserves a second chance. It's possible that the sixth circle youngin actually did make it through life without favors until that point
Agreed. And some may well feel it proper to go give this person a favor of theirs. My point however was, a Paladin that looked at the situation and then decided it wasn't appropriate for HIM to go sacrifice a favor, even though he could, should not be looked down on or considered a "bad" paladin.
No, this didn't happen to me in the example case but I'm getting the impression that some are taking that stance on things and just wanted to put my view out there before it happened.
Once more, my position is:A paladin that chooses NOT to give a favor to a favorless deader is well within his rights and should not be subject to abuse or badmouthing for his/her choice.
Redarch
>>Everyone deserves a second chance. It's possible that the sixth circle youngin actually did make it through life without favors until that point
Agreed. And some may well feel it proper to go give this person a favor of theirs. My point however was, a Paladin that looked at the situation and then decided it wasn't appropriate for HIM to go sacrifice a favor, even though he could, should not be looked down on or considered a "bad" paladin.
No, this didn't happen to me in the example case but I'm getting the impression that some are taking that stance on things and just wanted to put my view out there before it happened.
Once more, my position is:A paladin that chooses NOT to give a favor to a favorless deader is well within his rights and should not be subject to abuse or badmouthing for his/her choice.
Redarch
AKERMAN
Re: Tyryan
04/30/2003 09:12 PM CDT
Yes, you are right, they shouldn't be subjected to abuse. No one has the right to try and force their morals on someone else. Anyone can still think it's wrong, but they shouldn't treat anybody differently for it.
~Kashik,
...MAY GOD HEEEAAAAALLLL YOUR SOOOUUUUUULLLLL!!!:-)...
"God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God."
-www.peepresearch.org
~Kashik,
...MAY GOD HEEEAAAAALLLL YOUR SOOOUUUUUULLLLL!!!:-)...
"God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Therefore, Ray Charles is God."
-www.peepresearch.org
ANDRE-BELTRAME
Re: Tyryan
05/01/2003 07:30 AM CDT
Redarch and Kashik,
I agree with you guys about not being 'forced' to give the person a favor just because you're a Paladin and have the spell.
I would like to say though that my position of who deserves and who doesn't deserve a favor is slightly different.
I will give favors to any favorless regardless of the reason they give to me, then I'll jot down the person's name and keep it in my list. If the person does it again and someone asks on gweth for a Paladin to come give him another favor..then I'll probably gweth that I did that and he got favorless again so in that case, I'll probably not help. Even though I might help depending on the circumstances. I believe that whoever got favorless didn't actually want to get favorless, some folk are overconfident on their skills, some get killed in odd ways...so it's okay to end up favorless and ask for help in my mind, specially for young players. Since in most cases I don't know the person, I will give them the chance to learn and get favors when they are up, no matter what happened before. If they prove that they had the chance and were lazy/silly not to get more favors, then it would probably be a waste of favor and experience to help that person.
I have AG but don't have BoT,BW and Clarity. So that shows how much I value the spell.
Phanton
I agree with you guys about not being 'forced' to give the person a favor just because you're a Paladin and have the spell.
I would like to say though that my position of who deserves and who doesn't deserve a favor is slightly different.
I will give favors to any favorless regardless of the reason they give to me, then I'll jot down the person's name and keep it in my list. If the person does it again and someone asks on gweth for a Paladin to come give him another favor..then I'll probably gweth that I did that and he got favorless again so in that case, I'll probably not help. Even though I might help depending on the circumstances. I believe that whoever got favorless didn't actually want to get favorless, some folk are overconfident on their skills, some get killed in odd ways...so it's okay to end up favorless and ask for help in my mind, specially for young players. Since in most cases I don't know the person, I will give them the chance to learn and get favors when they are up, no matter what happened before. If they prove that they had the chance and were lazy/silly not to get more favors, then it would probably be a waste of favor and experience to help that person.
I have AG but don't have BoT,BW and Clarity. So that shows how much I value the spell.
Phanton
NEELD
FLINTR
Re: Tyryan
05/07/2003 10:21 AM CDT
Heh...didn't know I was bein talked about. Thanks, fellas.
Tyryan
Tyryan
