I have been trying to make a heavy chain shirt (trying both full and normal shirts), but each mix I try comes out as LC, even the mixes on drsecrets that claim to be HC. Any feel like sharing a mix for a HC shirt and full shirt? Or tell me what I am doing wrong? I assume the weight is just too light, where is the cut off between HC and LC?
RUSSEASBY
PRAXIS
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 12:34 PM CST
<<where is the cut off between HC and LC?
400
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
400
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
RUSSEASBY
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 12:39 PM CST
<< 400 >>
Is it the same for "chain shirt" as well as "full chain shirt" ? If so, that is pretty lame, HC ends up heavier then plate.
Is it the same for "chain shirt" as well as "full chain shirt" ? If so, that is pretty lame, HC ends up heavier then plate.
IAMTHEWALRUS
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 01:36 PM CST
I haven't tried much chain but my notes on shirts indicate break points are:
full chain shirt: LC<350>HC
chain shirt: LC<250>HC
Not sure what you're ending up with weight wise but I agree that it's probably a matter of them ending up too light. I'm not a forging expert by any means but perhaps this mix for a Heavy Chain shirt would work, it's one I've been wanting to try when I get a few more ranks.
3 Iron Bar Mix 3 Dust Mix 2 Iron Bar Mix 1 Zinc Bar Mix 4 Dust Mix Mix Should come out to 257 Stones
- Anuind
full chain shirt: LC<350>HC
chain shirt: LC<250>HC
Not sure what you're ending up with weight wise but I agree that it's probably a matter of them ending up too light. I'm not a forging expert by any means but perhaps this mix for a Heavy Chain shirt would work, it's one I've been wanting to try when I get a few more ranks.
3 Iron Bar Mix 3 Dust Mix 2 Iron Bar Mix 1 Zinc Bar Mix 4 Dust Mix Mix Should come out to 257 Stones
- Anuind
FBC
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 01:43 PM CST
>>full chain shirt: LC<350>HC
I have a 360 stone LC full chain shirt.
I have a 360 stone LC full chain shirt.
RUSSEASBY
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 02:05 PM CST
The weights I ended up with for the 4 mixes I tried, were 385 and 313 on full chain shirt, both turned out LC. And 150 and 279 for chain shirt, again both came out LC. So 250 and 350 are not the break offs. 400 for full chain shirt makes sense given my results, but I really hope regular chain shirt is less then 400, guess I will aim for a 300 stone chain shirt and see if that gives me HC.
Not really going for super awsome protection, just light wieght stuff for swapping out for armor learning, when lugging around so many sets of armor, even with decent stats, burden becomes an issue. The 150 stone LC shirt came out perfect for my needs, now just need to figure the lightest HC one I can manage (and hope its not 400 stones as suggested).
Not really going for super awsome protection, just light wieght stuff for swapping out for armor learning, when lugging around so many sets of armor, even with decent stats, burden becomes an issue. The 150 stone LC shirt came out perfect for my needs, now just need to figure the lightest HC one I can manage (and hope its not 400 stones as suggested).
BEYONDDISBELIEF
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 02:42 PM CST
I thought the rule of thumb for cutoffs is <5.0> density, with 5.0 being neutral?
PRAXIS
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 02:51 PM CST
<<The weights I ended up with for the 4 mixes I tried, were 385 and 313 on full chain shirt, both turned out LC.
For a chain shirt (50 volume) you need to compress a bit to get the density required. For a hauberk (80 volume), its not so bad.
<<400 for full chain shirt makes sense given my results
Heavy chain shirts are horrible for the weight. Might as well just make hauberks.
<<I will aim for a 300 stone chain shirt and see if that gives me HC.
It will not. It will be LC.
<<Not really going for super awsome protection,
They app the same, and compare the same, except for the difference in weight and maneuver hindrance. In short, they pretty much suck with regular metals.
Also, you will notice there are different 'break points' in LC. Your 150 stone shirtsdoesn't app the same as a heavier one. Same for HC, but you need to get up to like 850 stones in hauberk to see the difference.
<<lightest HC one I can manage (and hope its not 400 stones as suggested).
It's 400. Honest.
> put haub on count
You put your midnight black hauberk on the counter.
Twelvetoes hefts the midnight black hauberk and puts it on the medium balance scale. He patiently adds small sacks of stones on the other side till the beam becomes exactly level.
Twelvetoes squints at the balance beam needle and says, "The hauberk weighs about two hundred sixty-four stones," and puts the hauberk on the counter.
You pay Twelvetoes and take your hauberk off the counter.
> get obs haub
You get an obsidian black hauberk from inside your armor pack.
> put obs haub on count
You put your obsidian black hauberk on the counter.
Twelvetoes hefts the obsidian black hauberk and puts it on the medium balance scale. He patiently adds small sacks of stones on the other side till the beam becomes exactly level.
Twelvetoes squints at the balance beam needle and says, "The hauberk weighs about four hundred stones," and puts the hauberk on the counter.
You pay Twelvetoes and take your hauberk off the counter.
> app mid haub
The midnight black hauberk is light chain.
The hauberk looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that a midnight black hauberk appears to impose moderate maneuvering hindrance and moderate stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing a midnight black hauberk you could expect your maneuvering to be minimally hindered and your stealth to be lightly hindered.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.
The midnight black hauberk is made with metal.
The midnight black hauberk is fairly flexible.
The midnight black hauberk has a bit of weight to it.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is worth exactly 1623 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
R> app obs haub
The obsidian black hauberk is heavy chain.
The hauberk looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that an obsidian black hauberk appears to impose high maneuvering hindrance and high stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing an obsidian black hauberk you could expect your maneuvering to be minimally hindered and your stealth to be fairly hindered.
You are certain that the obsidian black hauberk is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.
The obsidian black hauberk is made with metal.
The obsidian black hauberk is fairly flexible.
The obsidian black hauberk feels pretty heavy.
You are certain that the obsidian black hauberk is worth exactly 1623 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
R> comp mid haub with obs haub
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as strong as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is easier to maneuver with than the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to fire and is about as absorptive of fire as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to cold and is about as absorptive of cold as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to electricity and is about as absorptive of electricity as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to puncture damage and is about as absorptive of puncture damage as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to slice damage and is about as absorptive of slice damage as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to impact damage and is about as absorptive of impact damage as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are confident that the midnight black hauberk weighs less than the obsidian black hauberk.
[Roundtime: 8 seconds]
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
For a chain shirt (50 volume) you need to compress a bit to get the density required. For a hauberk (80 volume), its not so bad.
<<400 for full chain shirt makes sense given my results
Heavy chain shirts are horrible for the weight. Might as well just make hauberks.
<<I will aim for a 300 stone chain shirt and see if that gives me HC.
It will not. It will be LC.
<<Not really going for super awsome protection,
They app the same, and compare the same, except for the difference in weight and maneuver hindrance. In short, they pretty much suck with regular metals.
Also, you will notice there are different 'break points' in LC. Your 150 stone shirtsdoesn't app the same as a heavier one. Same for HC, but you need to get up to like 850 stones in hauberk to see the difference.
<<lightest HC one I can manage (and hope its not 400 stones as suggested).
It's 400. Honest.
> put haub on count
You put your midnight black hauberk on the counter.
Twelvetoes hefts the midnight black hauberk and puts it on the medium balance scale. He patiently adds small sacks of stones on the other side till the beam becomes exactly level.
Twelvetoes squints at the balance beam needle and says, "The hauberk weighs about two hundred sixty-four stones," and puts the hauberk on the counter.
You pay Twelvetoes and take your hauberk off the counter.
> get obs haub
You get an obsidian black hauberk from inside your armor pack.
> put obs haub on count
You put your obsidian black hauberk on the counter.
Twelvetoes hefts the obsidian black hauberk and puts it on the medium balance scale. He patiently adds small sacks of stones on the other side till the beam becomes exactly level.
Twelvetoes squints at the balance beam needle and says, "The hauberk weighs about four hundred stones," and puts the hauberk on the counter.
You pay Twelvetoes and take your hauberk off the counter.
> app mid haub
The midnight black hauberk is light chain.
The hauberk looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that a midnight black hauberk appears to impose moderate maneuvering hindrance and moderate stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing a midnight black hauberk you could expect your maneuvering to be minimally hindered and your stealth to be lightly hindered.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.
The midnight black hauberk is made with metal.
The midnight black hauberk is fairly flexible.
The midnight black hauberk has a bit of weight to it.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is worth exactly 1623 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
R> app obs haub
The obsidian black hauberk is heavy chain.
The hauberk looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
right leg
left leg
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that an obsidian black hauberk appears to impose high maneuvering hindrance and high stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing an obsidian black hauberk you could expect your maneuvering to be minimally hindered and your stealth to be fairly hindered.
You are certain that the obsidian black hauberk is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.
The obsidian black hauberk is made with metal.
The obsidian black hauberk is fairly flexible.
The obsidian black hauberk feels pretty heavy.
You are certain that the obsidian black hauberk is worth exactly 1623 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
R> comp mid haub with obs haub
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as strong as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is easier to maneuver with than the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to fire and is about as absorptive of fire as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to cold and is about as absorptive of cold as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to electricity and is about as absorptive of electricity as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to puncture damage and is about as absorptive of puncture damage as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to slice damage and is about as absorptive of slice damage as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are certain that the midnight black hauberk is about as resistant to impact damage and is about as absorptive of impact damage as the obsidian black hauberk.
You are confident that the midnight black hauberk weighs less than the obsidian black hauberk.
[Roundtime: 8 seconds]
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
RUSSEASBY
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 03:04 PM CST
Okay, I guess I misunderstood how it all works, I thought since the volumes were different that the weights for the break offs would be different. Thats lame that it isnt (especially since I have no use for a hauberk).
PRAXIS
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 03:15 PM CST
<<Thats lame that it isnt
Yes, some of the templates don't make much sense. What would you expect from a largely untouched 9 or 10 year old system?
Don't worry though, the traders and empaths will be making quality gear 'soon'.
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
Yes, some of the templates don't make much sense. What would you expect from a largely untouched 9 or 10 year old system?
Don't worry though, the traders and empaths will be making quality gear 'soon'.
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
MOERAS
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 03:39 PM CST
3Fe,1Ni,1Cu/2Cu/4C/1C/ is a quick and easy 400 stone full chain shirt mix. Comes out gh gh gh mod hinderance. Compress in a half-dust if you need 401 stone.
RUSSEASBY
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/10/2010 11:34 PM CST
Well, I finally managed to bang out an HC shirt, sure enough as said, 400 is the cut off reguardless of template. The mixes on drsecrets and elanthipedia that claim to be HC yet under 400 stones are entirely wrong (and the source of my initial confusion). Came out pretty decent actually, not sure if its capped or not:
The full chain shirt is heavy chain.
The shirt looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that a full chain shirt appears to impose moderate maneuvering hindrance and moderate stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing a full chain shirt you could expect your maneuvering to be minimally hindered and your stealth to be lightly hindered.
You are certain that the full chain shirt is fairly sturdy, and is in pristine condition.
The full chain shirt is made with metal.
The full chain shirt is moderately flexible.
You are certain that the full chain shirt weighs exactly 411 stones.
You are certain that the full chain shirt is worth exactly 1400 lirums.
The full chain shirt is heavy chain.
The shirt looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that a full chain shirt appears to impose moderate maneuvering hindrance and moderate stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and good damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing a full chain shirt you could expect your maneuvering to be minimally hindered and your stealth to be lightly hindered.
You are certain that the full chain shirt is fairly sturdy, and is in pristine condition.
The full chain shirt is made with metal.
The full chain shirt is moderately flexible.
You are certain that the full chain shirt weighs exactly 411 stones.
You are certain that the full chain shirt is worth exactly 1400 lirums.
PRAXIS
Re: Heavy chain shirt
03/11/2010 04:18 AM CST
<<The mixes on drsecrets and elanthipedia ... are entirely wrong
Yes. There isn't even 1 good compression mix on either (armor or weapon), and they appear to be copies.
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
Yes. There isn't even 1 good compression mix on either (armor or weapon), and they appear to be copies.
< You fire an ironwood quadrello at a baby forest gryphon. A baby forest gryphon fails to dodge. The quadrello lands a devastating hit that mashes the gryphon's right eye to pulp with a direct smash to the face, knocking it completely senseless.
