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>>Will it be teachable in combat?
I am uncertain. It doesn't feel like something that should be teachable in combat, but all other armor skills are. I'll give it thought.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
DR-ARMIFER
CHIMERIAN
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/15/2017 08:59 PM CST
>>Will it be teachable in combat?
>I am uncertain. It doesn't feel like something that should be teachable in combat, but all other armor skills are. I'll give it thought.
While I understand that it might not feel like something that is teachable in combat, from a fun game play-ability view, if its not teachable in combat there is a good chance it will end up being something we really are not happy training since paladins spend most of their time in combat after a certain level.
- Felicini
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/15/2017 09:06 PM CST
>>While I understand that it might not feel like something that is teachable in combat, from a fun game play-ability view, if its not teachable in combat there is a good chance it will end up being something we really are not happy training since paladins spend most of their time in combat after a certain level.
I may be missing something, but isn't the natural solution to training a combat-support skill in combat to use it in combat?
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I may be missing something, but isn't the natural solution to training a combat-support skill in combat to use it in combat?
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
CHIMERIAN
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/15/2017 09:26 PM CST
>I may be missing something, but isn't the natural solution to training a combat-support skill in combat to use it in combat?
Yes, I guess I don't understand how this is trained. If it can be trained in combat thats a huge plus.
- Felicini
Yes, I guess I don't understand how this is trained. If it can be trained in combat thats a huge plus.
- Felicini
PRIMEQ
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/15/2017 09:43 PM CST
I am hesitant to weigh in as I don't play a Paladin. So take with however many grains of salt.
I like esoteric words because they make the game feel unique and magical. Trust me, "Bardic Lore" does not excite me. That said, I can see how Conviction is appealing to many people and instantly brings to mind a certain state.
Personally, though, my favorite so far is Immanence, "the concept of the presence of deity in and throughout the real world." Immanence makes me think of the gods as always present, pervading the world, and the Paladins are the ones who have figured out how to manifest that power within themselves. Theosis or "union with a god" feels more like the gods are "out there" somewhere and the Paladin is making a bargain. It just seems to me like Immanence is closer to the lore that we've built in Dragonrealms, where we have Holy mana represented as the literal presence of the gods.
However if it turns out Theosis is closer to the game lore, I would prefer that. Or perhaps, as a synonym, Deification.
- Navesi
I like esoteric words because they make the game feel unique and magical. Trust me, "Bardic Lore" does not excite me. That said, I can see how Conviction is appealing to many people and instantly brings to mind a certain state.
Personally, though, my favorite so far is Immanence, "the concept of the presence of deity in and throughout the real world." Immanence makes me think of the gods as always present, pervading the world, and the Paladins are the ones who have figured out how to manifest that power within themselves. Theosis or "union with a god" feels more like the gods are "out there" somewhere and the Paladin is making a bargain. It just seems to me like Immanence is closer to the lore that we've built in Dragonrealms, where we have Holy mana represented as the literal presence of the gods.
However if it turns out Theosis is closer to the game lore, I would prefer that. Or perhaps, as a synonym, Deification.
- Navesi
ILLIENA
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/15/2017 10:43 PM CST
>>I am uncertain. It doesn't feel like something that should be teachable in combat, but all other armor skills are. I'll give it thought.
>Yes, I guess I don't understand how this is trained. If it can be trained in combat thats a huge plus.
In that sentence, "teachable in combat" referred to ">teach conviction to Galahad". You'll still be able to learn it in combat by doing convictiony things, e.g. smiting all who stand before you.
>Yes, I guess I don't understand how this is trained. If it can be trained in combat thats a huge plus.
In that sentence, "teachable in combat" referred to ">teach conviction to Galahad". You'll still be able to learn it in combat by doing convictiony things, e.g. smiting all who stand before you.
ISHARON
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/15/2017 11:57 PM CST
>>Ashaman1: I could get behind Arete or Theosis. Not big on Integrity.
Agreed.
My objections to integrity would be the same as those for conviction, mainly that it's not a "skill" and not a quality unique to Paladins.
But if I had to choose between integrity and conviction, I would choose the latter.
Of the more spiritual-themed skill names (immanence, emanation, and theosis), I still like immanence, as it seems closest to the lore, and it doesn't look similar to theurgy as a word. (Additionally, theosis like more of a clerical concept inasmuch as it is tied to the gods.)
Overall, immanence is still my first choice.
>>Primeq: I like esoteric words because they make the game feel unique and magical. Trust me, "Bardic Lore" does not excite me. That said, I can see how Conviction is appealing to many people and instantly brings to mind a certain state.
Agreed.
>>DR-Armifer: I could do Conviction, but to tie it into the actual mechanics (Soul, Glyphs, magic, possibly active armor skills), I'd need to be a little squirrely with it. Basically we'd define Conviction as your ability to be in tune with your sanctified soul and its demands. If your soul is less then prisitine, you have manifestly not been Conviction-ing very hard. To that end, Conviction suffers an effective penalty based on your soul state.
What about calling soul state conviction -- not as the name of our guild skill but as a measure of how closely we are adhering to the code of ethics. This would be parallel to Clerics, who have theurgy as their guild skill but seek to maintain devotion (their connection to the gods and their pool for non-spell abilities).
That also seems like a good compromise, as it would allow the guild skill name to be more esoteric and a better description of the lore while also recognizing that Paladins derive strength from adherence to an ethical code.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Paladin new player guide: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Paladin_new_player_guide
armor and shields: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_and_shield_player_guide
Agreed.
My objections to integrity would be the same as those for conviction, mainly that it's not a "skill" and not a quality unique to Paladins.
But if I had to choose between integrity and conviction, I would choose the latter.
Of the more spiritual-themed skill names (immanence, emanation, and theosis), I still like immanence, as it seems closest to the lore, and it doesn't look similar to theurgy as a word. (Additionally, theosis like more of a clerical concept inasmuch as it is tied to the gods.)
Overall, immanence is still my first choice.
>>Primeq: I like esoteric words because they make the game feel unique and magical. Trust me, "Bardic Lore" does not excite me. That said, I can see how Conviction is appealing to many people and instantly brings to mind a certain state.
Agreed.
>>DR-Armifer: I could do Conviction, but to tie it into the actual mechanics (Soul, Glyphs, magic, possibly active armor skills), I'd need to be a little squirrely with it. Basically we'd define Conviction as your ability to be in tune with your sanctified soul and its demands. If your soul is less then prisitine, you have manifestly not been Conviction-ing very hard. To that end, Conviction suffers an effective penalty based on your soul state.
What about calling soul state conviction -- not as the name of our guild skill but as a measure of how closely we are adhering to the code of ethics. This would be parallel to Clerics, who have theurgy as their guild skill but seek to maintain devotion (their connection to the gods and their pool for non-spell abilities).
That also seems like a good compromise, as it would allow the guild skill name to be more esoteric and a better description of the lore while also recognizing that Paladins derive strength from adherence to an ethical code.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Paladin new player guide: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Paladin_new_player_guide
armor and shields: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_and_shield_player_guide
TRICKYSLIPPY
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/16/2017 12:22 AM CST
I feel like these descriptors could more aptly fit into a pathlike system.
Just thinking down D&D alignments Immanence sounds like a lawful good Paladin where conviction, to me, sounds more in the realm of the lawful neutral.
From there I'm not really sure where you'd go for another option, chaotic good perhaps, looking at some of the other proposed descriptors.
I think a soul state that changes the abilities you have access to, or how those abilities manifest themselves based on where your paladin is with these different soul state pools could be very interesting.
I'm not sure on the actual skill name but in terms of thinking of these as describing the soul state itself.
Just thinking down D&D alignments Immanence sounds like a lawful good Paladin where conviction, to me, sounds more in the realm of the lawful neutral.
From there I'm not really sure where you'd go for another option, chaotic good perhaps, looking at some of the other proposed descriptors.
I think a soul state that changes the abilities you have access to, or how those abilities manifest themselves based on where your paladin is with these different soul state pools could be very interesting.
I'm not sure on the actual skill name but in terms of thinking of these as describing the soul state itself.
DIVY
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/16/2017 02:26 AM CST
I think what Feli ment was, can we learn the skill thru combat.
And I really want to clarify for myself.
I spend roughly 98% of my training time in combat, if this skill cannot be taught thru the use of combat, it will feel less like a guild skill, and more like a ball and chain.
I'm not saying I have all the answers, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make whatever the end result of the skill trainable in combat, if not just straight up taught by being in combat.
Also, I said something in the survey's but I wanna double it here.
Paladins do deserve some love right now, but if the end result turns out to be overly complicated, or overly sensitive, then give us a spell rework, name our skill, and be done.
I'm more scared of these changes ruining paladins, rather then making them more playable, or even more enjoyable.
And I really want to clarify for myself.
I spend roughly 98% of my training time in combat, if this skill cannot be taught thru the use of combat, it will feel less like a guild skill, and more like a ball and chain.
I'm not saying I have all the answers, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make whatever the end result of the skill trainable in combat, if not just straight up taught by being in combat.
Also, I said something in the survey's but I wanna double it here.
Paladins do deserve some love right now, but if the end result turns out to be overly complicated, or overly sensitive, then give us a spell rework, name our skill, and be done.
I'm more scared of these changes ruining paladins, rather then making them more playable, or even more enjoyable.
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/16/2017 02:39 AM CST
>>In that sentence, "teachable in combat" referred to ">teach conviction to Galahad". You'll still be able to learn it in combat by doing convictiony things, e.g. smiting all who stand before you.
This.
GM Grejuva
This.
GM Grejuva
ASHAMAN1
Re: Guild Skill Name & Theme
12/16/2017 06:45 AM CST
I'm not too worried about the learning in combat issue. Armifer already said that he considers us a combat-centric and wanted the skill trainable in combat. As far as TEACHING it in combat, I don't think that makes oodles of sense.
At this point, if we're being frank about such, we've been so dry on Dev (aside from a few well received tweaks and QoL stuffs) that I'm willing to take a deep breath and give Armifer the benefit of the doubt. Seeming him taking, and reacting to, our input on things is quite comforting and leaves me with some hope.
Samsaren
At this point, if we're being frank about such, we've been so dry on Dev (aside from a few well received tweaks and QoL stuffs) that I'm willing to take a deep breath and give Armifer the benefit of the doubt. Seeming him taking, and reacting to, our input on things is quite comforting and leaves me with some hope.
Samsaren
