Is there any chance we can have the soul hits for PVP looked at again. I seems excessive that I can go from tip top to pallid grey after 3 first strikes and a murder. This is as a 150+ Paladin with 60 charisma as well.
Additionally, First strike is still being put on the Paladin after taking a damaging attack from another player.
Finally, could we get all soul hits turned off for whomping on Perverse Necromancers? In the modern era of pvp being far less taboo its frustrating to have to climb the mountain of these massive penalties for engaging folks.
Samsaren
ASHAMAN1
JARAGONA
Re: Soul hits.
09/23/2013 08:49 PM CDT
Sounds antiquated. Also, you should be able to burn necromancers with your righteous fury and have more soul than James Brown in Shout and Shimmy.
"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar
"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar
ZULJIN
Re: Soul hits.
09/23/2013 10:49 PM CDT
This is one of the reasons I stopped playing my paladin. I once killed a necromancer, who was not forsaken, and still took a soul hit. There are characters who have committed notoriously evil acts but if my paladin smites them, he will take a penality? Paladins are supposed to be champions of justice and defenders of the weak, not walking tin cans who need to smacked around first before they can take action without taking a soul hit.
The concept of this guild really needs to be looked at to see how it should fit in the present state of this game. I feel if this is done correctly, it would add a lot of value to all players.
The concept of this guild really needs to be looked at to see how it should fit in the present state of this game. I feel if this is done correctly, it would add a lot of value to all players.
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 05:52 AM CDT
<<The concept of this guild really needs to be looked at to see how it should fit in the present state of this game. I feel if this is done correctly, it would add a lot of value to all players.
Yup. QFT
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
GORTEOUS
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 01:08 PM CDT
>> Is there any chance we can have the soul hits for PVP looked at again. I seems excessive that I can go from tip top to pallid grey after 3 first strikes and a murder. This is as a 150+ Paladin with 60 charisma as well.
>>Additionally, First strike is still being put on the Paladin after taking a damaging attack from another player.
This. I used to play a Paladin and these things made the guild much more tedious than it really needed to be.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
>>Additionally, First strike is still being put on the Paladin after taking a damaging attack from another player.
This. I used to play a Paladin and these things made the guild much more tedious than it really needed to be.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
IPECAC
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 01:32 PM CDT
Yes, please make this a priority. Seriously antiquated and needs review.
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
BISCLAVRET
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 06:44 PM CDT
Next time someone happens to murder a Not Necromancer PC, could you please send me a log of the death spam, including the soul messaging? Don't go out of your way to do this, since I'm not going to be able to give you your soul purity back, just, you know, when you feel a little stabby and want to help me track down something.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ASHAMAN1
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 07:11 PM CDT
< Driving in with naturally fluid movements, you draw a broad-bladed haralun robe sword with silver inlay at Rifkinn. Rifkinn fails to evade, avoiding only some of the blow.
The sword lands a massive strike that explodes the heart and lungs with a bone-shattering blow to the chest.
* Rifkinn is slain before your eyes!
A deep sense of guilt and shame fills you, and you suddenly feel that you might not be the shining example that the guild demands. You must remember that a paladin leads by example and not through terror.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
Ask and you shall receive.
Samsaren
The sword lands a massive strike that explodes the heart and lungs with a bone-shattering blow to the chest.
* Rifkinn is slain before your eyes!
A deep sense of guilt and shame fills you, and you suddenly feel that you might not be the shining example that the guild demands. You must remember that a paladin leads by example and not through terror.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
Ask and you shall receive.
Samsaren
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 07:21 PM CDT
Merci.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ANOUSHKA
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 08:07 PM CDT
Silly Samsaren. I had a bunch of murder messagings from test last winter. I mean, not that my soulstate regularly had to be raised to pristine again or anything.
Cass
Cass
ASHAMAN1
Re: Soul hits.
09/24/2013 10:03 PM CDT
Had an Olvi handy, took advantage... Its all good, getting rather used to fixed my soul.
Samsaren
Samsaren
MCMILLANR
Re: Soul hits.
09/25/2013 10:17 AM CDT
I think he just wanted a reason to murder Rifkinn.
- Deadly Shadow Walcar Seord.
- Deadly Shadow Walcar Seord.
2DUMBARSE
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 01:13 PM CDT
I agree with everything said. Incidentally, it would be nice to see more paladins participating in tourneys and group fights without having to worry about recouping lost soul.
The worst kind of soul hit is the kind you get when you don’t initiate the first strike…
* Moving in like a timid schoolboy, * throws a lead-weighted wooden bola at you. You block solidly with a triple-reinforced vardite pavise shield.
The wooden bola lands nearby!
[You're nimbly balanced and have slight advantage.]
> prep shatter
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting catechisms to invoke the Shatter spell.
> cast *
You thrust your palm toward *.
You feel a deep pain in your soul for initiating the attack against *. This is dishonorable!
A strange thumping noise comes from *'s shield arm, which then starts drooping to his side.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
The worst kind of soul hit is the kind you get when you don’t initiate the first strike…
* Moving in like a timid schoolboy, * throws a lead-weighted wooden bola at you. You block solidly with a triple-reinforced vardite pavise shield.
The wooden bola lands nearby!
[You're nimbly balanced and have slight advantage.]
> prep shatter
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting catechisms to invoke the Shatter spell.
> cast *
You thrust your palm toward *.
You feel a deep pain in your soul for initiating the attack against *. This is dishonorable!
A strange thumping noise comes from *'s shield arm, which then starts drooping to his side.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 04:42 PM CDT
Does that only happen with spells, or with physical attacks and spells?
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ASHAMAN1
2DUMBARSE
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 10:43 PM CDT
Thanks, Armifer!
I played around with the protects at various defense stances. As expected, protect cover is still too powerful so I'll stick to deflect for this. Here are the results for deflect:
The attacker has 235 SE, which was used for the test.
At ~700 evasion and ~450 shield, the attacker misses every strike
At 0 evasion and ~450 shield, the attacker misses every time
At ~700 evasion and ~275 shield, the attacker lands every hit unless very badly balanced
At ~210 parry and ~275 shield, the attacker misses frequently
At ~700 evasion and ~365 shield, the attacker misses every hit
At 0 evasion and ~365 shield, the attacker misses every hit
At ~700 evasion and ~320 shield, the attacker misses most every hit
Thoughts: Evasion seems to play little if any role in the deflect contest. It feels like it's strictly a shield/parry contest, so it's weighted fairly heavily in favor of the attacker unless the protector is using most/all stance points in shield and parry. It may be weighted a little too heavily in favor of the attacker in a shield/evasion stance but if that's intended, it's preferable to how it was.
A min mana DO completely ignored deflect.
I played around with the protects at various defense stances. As expected, protect cover is still too powerful so I'll stick to deflect for this. Here are the results for deflect:
The attacker has 235 SE, which was used for the test.
At ~700 evasion and ~450 shield, the attacker misses every strike
At 0 evasion and ~450 shield, the attacker misses every time
At ~700 evasion and ~275 shield, the attacker lands every hit unless very badly balanced
At ~210 parry and ~275 shield, the attacker misses frequently
At ~700 evasion and ~365 shield, the attacker misses every hit
At 0 evasion and ~365 shield, the attacker misses every hit
At ~700 evasion and ~320 shield, the attacker misses most every hit
Thoughts: Evasion seems to play little if any role in the deflect contest. It feels like it's strictly a shield/parry contest, so it's weighted fairly heavily in favor of the attacker unless the protector is using most/all stance points in shield and parry. It may be weighted a little too heavily in favor of the attacker in a shield/evasion stance but if that's intended, it's preferable to how it was.
A min mana DO completely ignored deflect.
IAMTHEWALRUS
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 11:01 PM CDT
>>Thoughts: Evasion seems to play little if any role in the deflect contest. It feels like it's strictly a shield/parry contest
Protect Deflect only uses parry and shield, not evasion to determine success.
- Anuind Lyndon
When naming your holy weapon consider the following: Everyone has a Holy Avenger or a Divine Vengeance. Why not go with something your foes will never accept the shame of being smote by, "The Fuzzy Kitten".
Protect Deflect only uses parry and shield, not evasion to determine success.
- Anuind Lyndon
When naming your holy weapon consider the following: Everyone has a Holy Avenger or a Divine Vengeance. Why not go with something your foes will never accept the shame of being smote by, "The Fuzzy Kitten".
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 11:03 PM CDT
>>I played around with the protects at various defense stances. As expected, protect cover is still too powerful so I'll stick to deflect for this.
Cover is, at least from what I see in the code, supposed to trigger 100% of the time and grant you a bonus based on your soul state. It's possible the bonus is too high (I forgot to check if it caps properly), but actually covering someone doesn't seem to be meant to be in dispute.
>>Thoughts: Evasion seems to play little if any role in the deflect contest. It feels like it's strictly a shield/parry contest, so it's weighted fairly heavily in favor of the attacker unless the protector is using most/all stance points in shield and parry. It may be weighted a little too heavily in favor of the attacker in a shield/evasion stance but if that's intended, it's preferable to how it was.
Evasion plays no role in Deflect, which is thematic enough but might stand revisiting. The way I have it set up now is it's a fair contest if you're 100%ing either your Shield or Parry, and possibly still a little too silly again if you abandon Evasion to stance up both. Again, though, I wouldn't assume this is the final outcome for Deflect. This is just what I could do in a single evening to try to bring a small measure of sanity to it.
>>A min mana DO completely ignored deflect.
Yeah, putting in a new hook for it is beyond what I could justify as spot bug fixes. Plus, while I'm in agreement that Paladins should have a means to protect versus spells, I'm not sure if I'd want to throw that into Deflect or see a dedicated Protect ability versus supernatural attacks (tossing in the potential for roars and such too), or, honestly, if this is more the role for a nice high-end Warding spell.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Cover is, at least from what I see in the code, supposed to trigger 100% of the time and grant you a bonus based on your soul state. It's possible the bonus is too high (I forgot to check if it caps properly), but actually covering someone doesn't seem to be meant to be in dispute.
>>Thoughts: Evasion seems to play little if any role in the deflect contest. It feels like it's strictly a shield/parry contest, so it's weighted fairly heavily in favor of the attacker unless the protector is using most/all stance points in shield and parry. It may be weighted a little too heavily in favor of the attacker in a shield/evasion stance but if that's intended, it's preferable to how it was.
Evasion plays no role in Deflect, which is thematic enough but might stand revisiting. The way I have it set up now is it's a fair contest if you're 100%ing either your Shield or Parry, and possibly still a little too silly again if you abandon Evasion to stance up both. Again, though, I wouldn't assume this is the final outcome for Deflect. This is just what I could do in a single evening to try to bring a small measure of sanity to it.
>>A min mana DO completely ignored deflect.
Yeah, putting in a new hook for it is beyond what I could justify as spot bug fixes. Plus, while I'm in agreement that Paladins should have a means to protect versus spells, I'm not sure if I'd want to throw that into Deflect or see a dedicated Protect ability versus supernatural attacks (tossing in the potential for roars and such too), or, honestly, if this is more the role for a nice high-end Warding spell.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ISHARON
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 11:37 PM CDT
>>DR-Armifer: Evasion plays no role in Deflect, which is thematic enough but might stand revisiting.
From a thematic standpoint, I would keep it that way. How can you deflect a blow if you're getting out of the way?
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
From a thematic standpoint, I would keep it that way. How can you deflect a blow if you're getting out of the way?
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
IAMTHEWALRUS
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 11:51 PM CDT
I agree with you emphatically, Isharon. The cover ability places you in front of the victim to act as the target in lieu of the person you're defending. Thereby it makes sense for you to enjoy all avenues of defense available to you in aid of avoiding being hit. Deflect is conceptually (or at least to me) more akin to standing abreast or at least close enough to the person you're defending to hinder oncoming blows by means of parrying or blocking them for the target.
- Anuind Lyndon
When naming your holy weapon consider the following: Everyone has a Holy Avenger or a Divine Vengeance. Why not go with something your foes will never accept the shame of being smote by, "The Fuzzy Kitten".
- Anuind Lyndon
When naming your holy weapon consider the following: Everyone has a Holy Avenger or a Divine Vengeance. Why not go with something your foes will never accept the shame of being smote by, "The Fuzzy Kitten".
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Soul hits.
09/30/2013 11:52 PM CDT
>>From a thematic standpoint, I would keep it that way. How can you deflect a blow if you're getting out of the way?
That's my feeling too, though I'm trying to not close any doors. My role right now is bug hunting and under that aegis I can do things pretty quickly. While the distinction can get blurred, I'm doing my best to leave the actual design decision stuff (such as the final form of the Deflect contest) to the Combat team and The Bosses. Both because that has a longer process to be approved through, and because they're the ones that need to be able to live with the decision.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
That's my feeling too, though I'm trying to not close any doors. My role right now is bug hunting and under that aegis I can do things pretty quickly. While the distinction can get blurred, I'm doing my best to leave the actual design decision stuff (such as the final form of the Deflect contest) to the Combat team and The Bosses. Both because that has a longer process to be approved through, and because they're the ones that need to be able to live with the decision.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Soul hits.
10/01/2013 01:02 AM CDT
I could see trying to push/shove/guide/whatever someone out of the way instead of just jumping in front to take a bullet and hoping you can block it properly.
So maybe a penalty to evading it with that penalty being offset by more tactics?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
So maybe a penalty to evading it with that penalty being offset by more tactics?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
2DUMBARSE
Re: Soul hits.
10/01/2013 10:20 AM CDT
Sorry I posted in the wrong place...
I should've mentioned using shield and/or parry exclusively in the deflect contest makes perfect sense to me, especially how it was explained by the sentry. I'm just not sure if the nature of combat, how it is now, skews things too much in favor of the attacker when using an evasion stance and/or too much in favor of the protector when (s)he is in shield/parry stance. That also has implications on ranged deflects but I didn't test ranged attacks enough.
I'm definitely fine with all protects being weighted in favor of the attacker and the contest doesn't seem unfairly balanced. Assuming everything is working as intended, 235 SE getting past 275 shield isn't anything to whine about.
>Yeah, putting in a new hook for it is beyond what I could justify as spot bug fixes. Plus, while I'm in agreement that Paladins should have a means to protect versus spells, I'm not sure if I'd want to throw that into Deflect or see a dedicated Protect ability versus supernatural attacks (tossing in the potential for roars and such too), or, honestly, if this is more the role for a nice high-end Warding spell.
Thanks, Armifer. Those all sound exciting.
Something else... I forgot to mention in my last post that it seemed like the deflects were pass or fail, with all damage making it through or none. I don't know if it was just messaging, but I believe partial deflections were possible before. In other words, the paladin might've reduced the OF part of the contest for the protected person even if (s)he couldn't stop it all. I don't know if that's within the scope of these tweaks and bug fixes but it was a nice feature.
I should've mentioned using shield and/or parry exclusively in the deflect contest makes perfect sense to me, especially how it was explained by the sentry. I'm just not sure if the nature of combat, how it is now, skews things too much in favor of the attacker when using an evasion stance and/or too much in favor of the protector when (s)he is in shield/parry stance. That also has implications on ranged deflects but I didn't test ranged attacks enough.
I'm definitely fine with all protects being weighted in favor of the attacker and the contest doesn't seem unfairly balanced. Assuming everything is working as intended, 235 SE getting past 275 shield isn't anything to whine about.
>Yeah, putting in a new hook for it is beyond what I could justify as spot bug fixes. Plus, while I'm in agreement that Paladins should have a means to protect versus spells, I'm not sure if I'd want to throw that into Deflect or see a dedicated Protect ability versus supernatural attacks (tossing in the potential for roars and such too), or, honestly, if this is more the role for a nice high-end Warding spell.
Thanks, Armifer. Those all sound exciting.
Something else... I forgot to mention in my last post that it seemed like the deflects were pass or fail, with all damage making it through or none. I don't know if it was just messaging, but I believe partial deflections were possible before. In other words, the paladin might've reduced the OF part of the contest for the protected person even if (s)he couldn't stop it all. I don't know if that's within the scope of these tweaks and bug fixes but it was a nice feature.
