Turns out that poisoned weapons and bolts are not good for your soul and yes, I found it out the hard way. The quadrello was passed around, the poison was so weak it didn't even poison the person I shot and my soul went from pristine to black. So accidentally picking up a poisoned bolt would be unknowingly wrecking your soul, since there is no way to tell whether the bolt/weapon is poisoned or not.
At least I got a new title thouhg, I guess..
Lyonet
UDULOOR
FULTONJ1
Re: Poison
05/03/2006 12:10 PM CDT
<<At least I got a new title thouhg, I guess..
Heh, I was thinking the exact same thing when I started reading the post.
Congrats on the new title!
Trebber
It is intended to be a game, and while it never made sense for me to be able to bounce across the rainbow road or whatever it was called when I played Candyland, it never stopped me from doing it and enjoying the game.
Heh, I was thinking the exact same thing when I started reading the post.
Congrats on the new title!
Trebber
It is intended to be a game, and while it never made sense for me to be able to bounce across the rainbow road or whatever it was called when I played Candyland, it never stopped me from doing it and enjoying the game.
UDULOOR
Re: Poison
05/03/2006 12:25 PM CDT
I still have the title on my list although my soul is up to pallid grey! Wonder if it will go to black again if I put it on.
Lyonet
Lyonet
SAKHARA
Re: Poison
05/03/2006 01:40 PM CDT
>Turns out that poisoned weapons and bolts are not good for your soul and yes, I found it out the hard way.
Oooh, thanks for the warning. Wonder if cursed bolts are the same and do not want to find out the hard way. (Hrrkis, or whatever they're called.) Good thing he can't hit the broad side of a barn with his crossbow and yet another reason not to have ranged/ammo weapons primary as a paladin.
Oooh, thanks for the warning. Wonder if cursed bolts are the same and do not want to find out the hard way. (Hrrkis, or whatever they're called.) Good thing he can't hit the broad side of a barn with his crossbow and yet another reason not to have ranged/ammo weapons primary as a paladin.
NEVINS
Re: Poison
05/03/2006 06:58 PM CDT
I think it's high time paladins had some sort of poison defense perk.
I'm thinking something along the lines of our pure souls being able to help purify our blood?
Maybe a glyph?
~Caneghem Urathi
I'm thinking something along the lines of our pure souls being able to help purify our blood?
Maybe a glyph?
~Caneghem Urathi
PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/04/2006 06:22 AM CDT
>I think it's high time paladins had some sort of poison defense perk
No spell, no glyph... We have a soul state that so far is only activated for effect if we 'do something' like cast a spell or trace a glyph. Yes, there is spidey sense, which is completely useless without Clarity up, and even most times its fairly useless with Clarity up...
Simply let our soulstate/pool pulse against poisons automatically. I, for one, would give pristine to black all day long to have a chance at defeating the insanely screwed up player made poison.
No spell, no glyph... We have a soul state that so far is only activated for effect if we 'do something' like cast a spell or trace a glyph. Yes, there is spidey sense, which is completely useless without Clarity up, and even most times its fairly useless with Clarity up...
Simply let our soulstate/pool pulse against poisons automatically. I, for one, would give pristine to black all day long to have a chance at defeating the insanely screwed up player made poison.
DR-MAECE
Re: Poison
05/04/2006 05:31 PM CDT
<<I, for one, would give pristine to black all day long to have a chance at defeating the insanely screwed up player made poison.>>
Erm hrm... interesting...
~Maece
"I'm at Betty's Bakery and we got homicidal baked goods after us." ~Gingerdead Man~
Erm hrm... interesting...
~Maece
"I'm at Betty's Bakery and we got homicidal baked goods after us." ~Gingerdead Man~
PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/04/2006 06:23 PM CDT
>Erm hrm... interesting...
Notable, yes. I know I'm 1 of a few PvP Paladins. Dare I say, I get into conflict lots. :D
A graze hit gives full effect poison, including one-pulse. And if I could elaborate without seeming too passionate about the topic (it really doesn't happen to me very much), I would trade soulstate/pool for a way to flush 1-3 pulse poisons somehow. I'd rather it be soul/pool instead of a spell/glyph which would be reactive, instead of inate.
Notable, yes. I know I'm 1 of a few PvP Paladins. Dare I say, I get into conflict lots. :D
A graze hit gives full effect poison, including one-pulse. And if I could elaborate without seeming too passionate about the topic (it really doesn't happen to me very much), I would trade soulstate/pool for a way to flush 1-3 pulse poisons somehow. I'd rather it be soul/pool instead of a spell/glyph which would be reactive, instead of inate.
BOBBRYAN
Re: Poison
05/04/2006 06:36 PM CDT
>>A graze hit gives full effect poison, including one-pulse. <<
Actually, that's not entirely true. A grazing hit gives a portion of the poison, a light hit is needed to give it all. last I checked anyway.
>>I'd rather it be soul/pool instead of a spell/glyph which would be reactive, instead of inate. <<
I'd also be careful about this. Thieves currently have an inate system of purging poisons. It gets me killed as often as it saves me. This is just one of those situations where you need to be careful what you ask for. I'd MUCH prefer a conscious effort to purge poisons.
-Wighten
Actually, that's not entirely true. A grazing hit gives a portion of the poison, a light hit is needed to give it all. last I checked anyway.
>>I'd rather it be soul/pool instead of a spell/glyph which would be reactive, instead of inate. <<
I'd also be careful about this. Thieves currently have an inate system of purging poisons. It gets me killed as often as it saves me. This is just one of those situations where you need to be careful what you ask for. I'd MUCH prefer a conscious effort to purge poisons.
-Wighten
PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/04/2006 07:02 PM CDT
>Thieves currently have an inate system of purging poisons. It gets me killed as often as it saves me
I'm not sure what powers the thief version; I'd think that a high end pristine soul would do a fine job of dumping poison. I'd hesitate to compare it to the thief version, and I think the thief should be better (iow, bump the thief version upwards and get it off the counter it has), however I'd think an inate holy flush could be possible in the game without trashing balance. My plan would include:
1) Drop soulstate/pool and flush poison exponentially so Paladins could survive the one-pulse, with enough stamina/courage -- skill/stat check here. Would we survive the 2-pulse? With a weakened 1-pulse, maybe -- although not guaranteed.
2) Share with clerics, soul = devotion, even give clerics a bonus if PFE'd beforehand.
3) Unless graze/light gets fixed to make more sense (% of poison introduced based on % of successful hit); even creature poison is full dose on really crappy hits, its a viable defense ability (see: Rhoat modas, Giant Vipers). Body defense, call it an extension of shield/armor, Paladin perk or skill/stat/circle based Paladin feat.
4) Reactive spells require non-stun time to cast and effect (we are not Empaths, and effects should not be instant), sufficient mana, and snap-cast ... this is hardly an improvement on one-pulse, unless the spell/glyph is stackable, of lengthy duration so we'd always think about having it up, else its just a single effect ability = fairly worthless and too single purposed.
Inate is the way to go. Paladins are usually stamina heavy, those TDPs spent should mean something to us besides burden and fatigue.
I'm not sure what powers the thief version; I'd think that a high end pristine soul would do a fine job of dumping poison. I'd hesitate to compare it to the thief version, and I think the thief should be better (iow, bump the thief version upwards and get it off the counter it has), however I'd think an inate holy flush could be possible in the game without trashing balance. My plan would include:
1) Drop soulstate/pool and flush poison exponentially so Paladins could survive the one-pulse, with enough stamina/courage -- skill/stat check here. Would we survive the 2-pulse? With a weakened 1-pulse, maybe -- although not guaranteed.
2) Share with clerics, soul = devotion, even give clerics a bonus if PFE'd beforehand.
3) Unless graze/light gets fixed to make more sense (% of poison introduced based on % of successful hit); even creature poison is full dose on really crappy hits, its a viable defense ability (see: Rhoat modas, Giant Vipers). Body defense, call it an extension of shield/armor, Paladin perk or skill/stat/circle based Paladin feat.
4) Reactive spells require non-stun time to cast and effect (we are not Empaths, and effects should not be instant), sufficient mana, and snap-cast ... this is hardly an improvement on one-pulse, unless the spell/glyph is stackable, of lengthy duration so we'd always think about having it up, else its just a single effect ability = fairly worthless and too single purposed.
Inate is the way to go. Paladins are usually stamina heavy, those TDPs spent should mean something to us besides burden and fatigue.
BOBBRYAN
Re: Poison
05/04/2006 10:51 PM CDT
Well... provided my post doesn't get pulled discussing the Thief version.
Purging seems to be pretty random. Sometimes it'll kick in immediately, sometimes it just won't kick in and you die. Most of the time, it's after a few seconds.
The ability is trained up by using it. And it has to be used against each different poison in turn in different concentrations to get good at it.
When it IS purged, it causes a sometimes sizeable fatigue hit. (I've been knocked from 100% to 0% with some potent stuff... Hell, that even happens in dobeks if I purge 2 at the same time)
So... if you guys get something like this (and I really don't think it would be a bad thing) You might want to put some physical drawbacks in as well as soul. I know having 0% fatigue can cause you to go the rest of the way dead real easy in combat from personal experience.
Just some things to keep in mind while you think about it.
-Wighten
Purging seems to be pretty random. Sometimes it'll kick in immediately, sometimes it just won't kick in and you die. Most of the time, it's after a few seconds.
The ability is trained up by using it. And it has to be used against each different poison in turn in different concentrations to get good at it.
When it IS purged, it causes a sometimes sizeable fatigue hit. (I've been knocked from 100% to 0% with some potent stuff... Hell, that even happens in dobeks if I purge 2 at the same time)
So... if you guys get something like this (and I really don't think it would be a bad thing) You might want to put some physical drawbacks in as well as soul. I know having 0% fatigue can cause you to go the rest of the way dead real easy in combat from personal experience.
Just some things to keep in mind while you think about it.
-Wighten
DISPHORIA
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 08:02 AM CDT
> Wighten's post
Just adding my own experience to this. I have a thief in TF, and I almost always had to avoid hunting critters that poisoned, or I hunted them once I was beyond their skill level. If you are dancing, and let's take hatchlings as a small critter. They brush you with their tail, you get poisoned. You purge the poison, fatigue gets dropped, all of the sudden you are being spun around this way and that way because you are exhausted. Have that happen at-level combat, and you are just screwed. The purge isn't really all that useful, except when I was picking the doors on the fourth tier. The poison there would purge out by the time I prepared to disarm and pick again. Now that the door is no longer an option, I would see the innate purge as more of a hindrance than a boon to combat. I spent a good month or so (24/7) trying to train up my thief's ability with poison, and it was still a very random period of time when the poison would flush. As for player made poison, I think I would have been dead by the time that poison was purged....at least at the rate I was going.
~ Player of Dora teh Explora in TF :-p
Just adding my own experience to this. I have a thief in TF, and I almost always had to avoid hunting critters that poisoned, or I hunted them once I was beyond their skill level. If you are dancing, and let's take hatchlings as a small critter. They brush you with their tail, you get poisoned. You purge the poison, fatigue gets dropped, all of the sudden you are being spun around this way and that way because you are exhausted. Have that happen at-level combat, and you are just screwed. The purge isn't really all that useful, except when I was picking the doors on the fourth tier. The poison there would purge out by the time I prepared to disarm and pick again. Now that the door is no longer an option, I would see the innate purge as more of a hindrance than a boon to combat. I spent a good month or so (24/7) trying to train up my thief's ability with poison, and it was still a very random period of time when the poison would flush. As for player made poison, I think I would have been dead by the time that poison was purged....at least at the rate I was going.
~ Player of Dora teh Explora in TF :-p
PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 09:26 AM CDT
So fatigue powers thief purging... more and more I'm liking using soul to do it. Perhaps the suggestion to make thief poison better is to provide a different method, besides fatigue, iow, maybe soul/devotion/IF lookalike called constitution, or whatever inner spirit that ebbs and flows like soul/devotion/IF.
That said, lets get back to Paladin poison, and purging.
That said, lets get back to Paladin poison, and purging.
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 10:43 AM CDT
As a paladin I can say that giving us an ability that outright counters a thief ability is pretty lame.
Just doesn't seem right IMO. Thats like giving us an ability that when used makes us unable to be backstabbed. While it sounds neat, I think you have to look at who is getting the short end of the stick.
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Just doesn't seem right IMO. Thats like giving us an ability that when used makes us unable to be backstabbed. While it sounds neat, I think you have to look at who is getting the short end of the stick.
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PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 11:44 AM CDT
>As a paladin I can say that giving us an ability that outright counters a thief ability is pretty lame.
In my mind, it's no different than perception + clarity + spidey sense countering hiding, stealing, + a few boosting khri's.
The important thing is that it should be a reasonable skill/stat/effect check, and not just a blatant nerf of poison. Kind of the opposite of how some poison is a complete nerf of the entire health system in 3 seconds.
In my mind, it's no different than perception + clarity + spidey sense countering hiding, stealing, + a few boosting khri's.
The important thing is that it should be a reasonable skill/stat/effect check, and not just a blatant nerf of poison. Kind of the opposite of how some poison is a complete nerf of the entire health system in 3 seconds.
UDULOOR
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 11:47 AM CDT
As a paladin I'd like to be able to TELL if a weapon or bolt was poisoned. Thanks.
Lyonet
Lyonet
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 02:03 PM CDT
"In my mind, it's no different than perception + clarity + spidey sense countering hiding, stealing, + a few boosting khri's."
Well firstly, and least importantly, clarity isn't a paladin spell. I'm not opposed to a couple of guild abilities coming together to disable or 'nerf' a given ability.
Secondly, I wouldn't say that our paladin abilities counter stealing or hiding. I think they can be effective but they don't have the effect of 'trace GoL, player X can't hide or steal', because you still can. If player X has high enough skills, the GoL plus perception plus whatever won't even have an effect.
However, with a paladin purge poison like ability... it does have the effect. I think making/applying poison is one of those neat niche abilities(that I dont think many thieves even use) and I dont think we should(as a guild) start thinking of ways to counter it completely.
With the way I understand purge to work, it just removes the poison completely, with some fatigue effects. If this ever got considered as a paladin ability I would want it to have some sort of... check, so its not as easy.
Maybe a glyph that will reduce poison effectiveness by 30% and give us a 30-40% soul hit. Maybe it sounds kinda weak to me but I'd hate to be a poison using thief if a ability like the one that has been suggested ever comes out for paladins.
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Well firstly, and least importantly, clarity isn't a paladin spell. I'm not opposed to a couple of guild abilities coming together to disable or 'nerf' a given ability.
Secondly, I wouldn't say that our paladin abilities counter stealing or hiding. I think they can be effective but they don't have the effect of 'trace GoL, player X can't hide or steal', because you still can. If player X has high enough skills, the GoL plus perception plus whatever won't even have an effect.
However, with a paladin purge poison like ability... it does have the effect. I think making/applying poison is one of those neat niche abilities(that I dont think many thieves even use) and I dont think we should(as a guild) start thinking of ways to counter it completely.
With the way I understand purge to work, it just removes the poison completely, with some fatigue effects. If this ever got considered as a paladin ability I would want it to have some sort of... check, so its not as easy.
Maybe a glyph that will reduce poison effectiveness by 30% and give us a 30-40% soul hit. Maybe it sounds kinda weak to me but I'd hate to be a poison using thief if a ability like the one that has been suggested ever comes out for paladins.
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PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 09:40 PM CDT
>Well firstly, and least importantly, clarity isn't a paladin spell.
Clarity sure is a Paladin spell. Are you thinking of CV, Clear Vision? Clarity is what makes spidey sense so good, by the way, so it's pretty important.
>Secondly, I wouldn't say that our paladin abilities counter stealing or hiding.
I don't think you've really used our abilities very much. GoL is an instant counter to stealing skill, and a damn good one. Make friends with a thief and have them mark you before and after you trace it (hint: you go from ridiculously easy to some form of 'difficult'). You are correct in saying that if the thief is far enough above you, they will get in, and you won't know... Thats the exception, not the rule.
>If this ever got considered as a paladin ability I would want it to have some sort of... check, so its not as easy.
I said that... powered by and using up soulstate/pool instead of fatigue.
>Maybe a glyph
In this example, the glyphs would likely be reactive. If it uses soul to drive the purging ability, it should be inate. Poison purge glyph (reactively) would be fairly useless, because you'd get 1 or 2 pulsed dead before the you got a chance to trace the glyph.
If it was driven by a glyph, as you propose, and used fatigue, just like the thief version, we'd just trace GoE. I don't think it would be a copy of another guilds ability, that would be kind of weak, and unoriginal.
Clarity sure is a Paladin spell. Are you thinking of CV, Clear Vision? Clarity is what makes spidey sense so good, by the way, so it's pretty important.
>Secondly, I wouldn't say that our paladin abilities counter stealing or hiding.
I don't think you've really used our abilities very much. GoL is an instant counter to stealing skill, and a damn good one. Make friends with a thief and have them mark you before and after you trace it (hint: you go from ridiculously easy to some form of 'difficult'). You are correct in saying that if the thief is far enough above you, they will get in, and you won't know... Thats the exception, not the rule.
>If this ever got considered as a paladin ability I would want it to have some sort of... check, so its not as easy.
I said that... powered by and using up soulstate/pool instead of fatigue.
>Maybe a glyph
In this example, the glyphs would likely be reactive. If it uses soul to drive the purging ability, it should be inate. Poison purge glyph (reactively) would be fairly useless, because you'd get 1 or 2 pulsed dead before the you got a chance to trace the glyph.
If it was driven by a glyph, as you propose, and used fatigue, just like the thief version, we'd just trace GoE. I don't think it would be a copy of another guilds ability, that would be kind of weak, and unoriginal.
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Poison
05/05/2006 11:47 PM CDT
Oh yea, I was totally thinking clear vision. Oops.
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PRAXIS
Re: Poison
05/06/2006 06:53 AM CDT
>Oh yea, I was totally thinking clear vision. Oops.
Its real easy to do... I've tried to clarify gems with my paladin, and use clarity with my mm. Off topic, but I had to put an "info" check on some of my scripts, so my paladin wouldn't go stealing (that was getting old!) when it should have been the mm.
Heheh.
Its real easy to do... I've tried to clarify gems with my paladin, and use clarity with my mm. Off topic, but I had to put an "info" check on some of my scripts, so my paladin wouldn't go stealing (that was getting old!) when it should have been the mm.
Heheh.
