Can we please get halt of the first strike system. It tanks a soul very easy in a few cast just playing around with friends and if you intervene to peacefully end a conflict, well there goes your soul.
The Halt spell, if the caster's will is strong enough, holds the subject motionless for a brief time. It is useful when one must intercede to prevent a citizen from attacking another citizen unjustly.
Growing thought the guild, I remember the halt wars with other paladins and it was one of the most fun times when sitting back in the guild throwing stories with your peers. Also now with the heavy Diminishing returns, I don't understand how it could be abused.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
PSX71
LENNONJON
Re: Halt spell
02/09/2015 01:01 PM CST
Agreed. The first strike penalty on this spell is rather silly. It's a tool that is given by the gods that is described as a means to help keep the peace. I was really surprised to see this change upon my return. Was there any IC justification for it?
--Just a Squire
--Just a Squire
BADGOPHER
Re: Halt spell
02/09/2015 06:27 PM CST
>Agreed. The first strike penalty [...] is rather silly.
The whole Paladin guild needs a good kick from the ground up. Most of the RP is beyond goofy, and the mechanics 'enforcing it' are more so.
The whole Paladin guild needs a good kick from the ground up. Most of the RP is beyond goofy, and the mechanics 'enforcing it' are more so.
2DUMBARSE
Re: Halt spell
02/09/2015 08:57 PM CST
I have no problem with first strike but, like you guys, I don't get why halt was given the first-strike treatment and why you still get the first strike penalty if attack someone who tries to hit you and doesn't connect.
That's a relatively minor PvP problem, though. The one that's disheartening is watching very big paladins struggle to touch and get wrecked by people 200-300 ranks their junior the few times I actually get to watch paladins fight. The consequence is I rarely see them participate at or, worse, attend subsequent sparring events, which is the part that really bugs me.
That's a relatively minor PvP problem, though. The one that's disheartening is watching very big paladins struggle to touch and get wrecked by people 200-300 ranks their junior the few times I actually get to watch paladins fight. The consequence is I rarely see them participate at or, worse, attend subsequent sparring events, which is the part that really bugs me.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Halt spell
02/10/2015 04:58 AM CST
>>That's a relatively minor PvP problem, though. The one that's disheartening is watching very big paladins struggle to touch and get wrecked by people 200-300 ranks their junior the few times I actually get to watch paladins fight.
We're better off then we were by a hefty margin, there's just a few ability combo's we cannot hope to fight.
Samsaren
We're better off then we were by a hefty margin, there's just a few ability combo's we cannot hope to fight.
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: Halt spell
02/10/2015 09:21 AM CST
It probably doesn't help sparring events are heavily represented by thieves, warmies and clerics. We're in the same boat as barbs and rangers, albeit with less offense and in some cases, somewhat ironically, defense. Strictly talking character v. character, of course.
Maybe I'm just still a little sore from the 3.1 nerf bat. I don't understand why it hit us so hard while at the same time DFA and shield/armor ignoring abilities were added or indirectly buffed (TM damage changes). I mean, did any of the other guilds with 3 defensive buffs lose 2 or those with 2 lose 1? And not receiving a single ranged weapon buff to compensate for RW changes; we're the only guild that relies entirely on weapons at-level without a ranged buff.
Look, I think I'm a pretty open-minded person but I can't fight the logic here. If I'm wrong, I'll happily eat my words. The way I see it, we're back to being among the worst PvP guilds. Whether it's by an inch or a mile, it doesn't really matter to me. If anything, it feels worse given how promising 3.0 was. I don't want to stop pushing for change because we're better than we were in 2.0. I'm of the opinion everyone's better than they were in 2.0.
Maybe I'm just still a little sore from the 3.1 nerf bat. I don't understand why it hit us so hard while at the same time DFA and shield/armor ignoring abilities were added or indirectly buffed (TM damage changes). I mean, did any of the other guilds with 3 defensive buffs lose 2 or those with 2 lose 1? And not receiving a single ranged weapon buff to compensate for RW changes; we're the only guild that relies entirely on weapons at-level without a ranged buff.
Look, I think I'm a pretty open-minded person but I can't fight the logic here. If I'm wrong, I'll happily eat my words. The way I see it, we're back to being among the worst PvP guilds. Whether it's by an inch or a mile, it doesn't really matter to me. If anything, it feels worse given how promising 3.0 was. I don't want to stop pushing for change because we're better than we were in 2.0. I'm of the opinion everyone's better than they were in 2.0.
PSX71
Re: Halt spell
02/10/2015 10:05 AM CST
>>Maybe I'm just still a little sore from the 3.1 nerf bat. I don't understand why it hit us so hard while at the same time DFA and shield/armor ignoring abilities were added or indirectly buffed (TM damage changes). I mean, did any of the other guilds with 3 defensive buffs lose 2 or those with 2 lose 1? And not receiving a single ranged weapon buff to compensate for RW changes; we're the only guild that relies entirely on weapons at-level without a ranged buff.<<
I totally agree with you, it seems you have to outclass your opponent by a huge amount to be able to play in a semi even field with some guilds at the moment. It really does make many of us not even want to pvp much if at all.
I do feel stronger at melee now more than before but at the same time non melee classes can just totally negate your melee with easy cheesy spells. Then add the no range buff and we are literally sitting ducks. To add a few examples its extremely hard and irritating to stay in melee with halo / vertigo debuff to melee as you vomit your guts out for a miss fest and add DFA to that mix, it gets ugly fast.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
I totally agree with you, it seems you have to outclass your opponent by a huge amount to be able to play in a semi even field with some guilds at the moment. It really does make many of us not even want to pvp much if at all.
I do feel stronger at melee now more than before but at the same time non melee classes can just totally negate your melee with easy cheesy spells. Then add the no range buff and we are literally sitting ducks. To add a few examples its extremely hard and irritating to stay in melee with halo / vertigo debuff to melee as you vomit your guts out for a miss fest and add DFA to that mix, it gets ugly fast.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
2DUMBARSE
Re: Halt spell
02/10/2015 01:41 PM CST
Hey, setting aside PvP, I could be more accepting if it at least felt like our abilities were balanced fairly relative to others'. Like, if GMs believe being able to buff more than one of the three primary defenses (evasion, shield, parry) is too excessive for any guild in 3.x, that's fine. I'd even agree given how slow combat is already. Same with ranged. For example, if thieves were thought to be more of a melee-oriented guild so they didn't get a ranged buff or rangers were thought to be more of a ranged-oriented guild so they didn't get a melee buff, I could deal with losing a ranged buff. That's something I wouldn't necessarily agree with, but then we wouldn't be ostensibly singled out.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Halt spell
02/10/2015 08:25 PM CST
>PVP Stuffs
Something to bear in mind, on paper we do HAVE some stuff for this thats being complained about. However, look at the folks who are talking here - 150+. We HAVE a tool to force a melee/non-hidden engagement, however, if we're winning the contest in our bracket...we likely don't need it anyways. (Charm vs Will, hah!)
Add to that a lack of rapid closer, and a handful of crazy counter moves that don't trigger diminishing returns (Halo, Vertigo), and the classic unending issue of being survival tert vs survival primes its going to feel like the odds are stacked against us.
Ranged - Yep, the RW nerf hurts. No ranged buff, no agility buff puts us into a rough situation. No disagreements.
DFA/Skillset skippers - An arguement could be made we get a chunk of this pie via Shatter. And yes, 3.0 Shatter was pretty awesome. That said, the nerf to it, combined with auto-stance, and a lack of ranged booster REALLY hurts here. Any non-Paladin can just stance evasion/parry vs us, taking shatter out of the game and if we do try a ranged without aforementioned boosters we're not going to connect on someone who's a challenge for us.
Additionally, I'm very curious: Why are all the various engagement effects (Shadow step, Halo, Vertigo, Whole Displacement, Pulsing invso) are all lasting, pulsing effects, while CRC is One-and-Done, AND consumes out tactics buff?
On the receiving end, Direct DFA (Lightning Bolt for example) at least has the baked in evasion bonus. I'm far far less up in arms about modern DFA then the DFA of yesteryears. Luckily, the other skillset skippers aren't as friendly. Even having one, I am personally, and thoroughly against the ability to SKIP an entire skill (let alone a skillset [Eliminate + Backstab]) in a skill based game. 3.x Does Not Handle this well. New combat, and thank goodness for it, requires 2 (+) defenses. Skipping one causing massive suckage.
I know a lot of the time it looks like folks are staring at Clerics and Thieves as the big offenders in the PVP Balance game, and to be fair a lot of that stems from recent development. The Clerical Toolbox is diverse and potent, with no single tool being the true problem. The ability to stack a myriad of Non-Diminishing debuffs, combined with potent engagement control and powerful ranged is what adds up to amazing-ness.
Thieves suffer from the catch of being more or less 1 trick ponies. Unfortunately for us mere mortals, they're REALLY potent in their wheelhouse. On the vs Paladin side, being able to skip both Parry, and Shield, via contesting a second tert skill AND adding an ability to skip the (now important) armor protection, and yeah - not good times.
Samsaren
Something to bear in mind, on paper we do HAVE some stuff for this thats being complained about. However, look at the folks who are talking here - 150+. We HAVE a tool to force a melee/non-hidden engagement, however, if we're winning the contest in our bracket...we likely don't need it anyways. (Charm vs Will, hah!)
Add to that a lack of rapid closer, and a handful of crazy counter moves that don't trigger diminishing returns (Halo, Vertigo), and the classic unending issue of being survival tert vs survival primes its going to feel like the odds are stacked against us.
Ranged - Yep, the RW nerf hurts. No ranged buff, no agility buff puts us into a rough situation. No disagreements.
DFA/Skillset skippers - An arguement could be made we get a chunk of this pie via Shatter. And yes, 3.0 Shatter was pretty awesome. That said, the nerf to it, combined with auto-stance, and a lack of ranged booster REALLY hurts here. Any non-Paladin can just stance evasion/parry vs us, taking shatter out of the game and if we do try a ranged without aforementioned boosters we're not going to connect on someone who's a challenge for us.
Additionally, I'm very curious: Why are all the various engagement effects (Shadow step, Halo, Vertigo, Whole Displacement, Pulsing invso) are all lasting, pulsing effects, while CRC is One-and-Done, AND consumes out tactics buff?
On the receiving end, Direct DFA (Lightning Bolt for example) at least has the baked in evasion bonus. I'm far far less up in arms about modern DFA then the DFA of yesteryears. Luckily, the other skillset skippers aren't as friendly. Even having one, I am personally, and thoroughly against the ability to SKIP an entire skill (let alone a skillset [Eliminate + Backstab]) in a skill based game. 3.x Does Not Handle this well. New combat, and thank goodness for it, requires 2 (+) defenses. Skipping one causing massive suckage.
I know a lot of the time it looks like folks are staring at Clerics and Thieves as the big offenders in the PVP Balance game, and to be fair a lot of that stems from recent development. The Clerical Toolbox is diverse and potent, with no single tool being the true problem. The ability to stack a myriad of Non-Diminishing debuffs, combined with potent engagement control and powerful ranged is what adds up to amazing-ness.
Thieves suffer from the catch of being more or less 1 trick ponies. Unfortunately for us mere mortals, they're REALLY potent in their wheelhouse. On the vs Paladin side, being able to skip both Parry, and Shield, via contesting a second tert skill AND adding an ability to skip the (now important) armor protection, and yeah - not good times.
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: Halt spell
02/10/2015 10:59 PM CST
I'd argue DFA is not much less annoying than it was in 2.0 even if it's not a one-hit kill. Yeah, there's an evasion bonus, but that's only because you need a minimum of two defenses in 3.x so you don't get wrecked. Moreover, the evasion bonus doesn't care if you have 200+ stance points. If it reallocated all my stance points to bonus evasion, then it wouldn't bug me so much since we dominate in the stance point department. I know you old guys'll (I say "old" with affection) recall that back in the day you could stance 100% evasion and 0% everything else and get by, although obviously that was not ideal. (I can't believe we're already more than 2 years into 3.x... Time flies.)
A warmie with 100 ranks less TM than I have evasion can hit my paladin (also 100 reflex) without much trouble without any buffs; guaranteed hits with substratum. A DFA user that's closer to my paladin's skill, 300 to 400 more ranks in their primary skill, yeah... DFA just adds insult to injury. We're not the only survival tert, sure, but we are the only survival tert without an evasion buff and that 15-20% is huge at higher ranks. Bear in mind I'm not calling for a DFA nerf with any of these statements. DFA is well balanced IMO in all cases but ours.
With ya on everything else. Even if we ignore the imbalanced stuff, most of which I think GMs know about, the reasons for paladin change stand on their own. Nobody seems to be calling for massive changes right now, in any case. Most of the most glaring issues can be resolved or assuaged with relatively minor tweaks and a spell or two, like the TR change that made it no longer deadly to the caster -- really appreciate that change.
A warmie with 100 ranks less TM than I have evasion can hit my paladin (also 100 reflex) without much trouble without any buffs; guaranteed hits with substratum. A DFA user that's closer to my paladin's skill, 300 to 400 more ranks in their primary skill, yeah... DFA just adds insult to injury. We're not the only survival tert, sure, but we are the only survival tert without an evasion buff and that 15-20% is huge at higher ranks. Bear in mind I'm not calling for a DFA nerf with any of these statements. DFA is well balanced IMO in all cases but ours.
With ya on everything else. Even if we ignore the imbalanced stuff, most of which I think GMs know about, the reasons for paladin change stand on their own. Nobody seems to be calling for massive changes right now, in any case. Most of the most glaring issues can be resolved or assuaged with relatively minor tweaks and a spell or two, like the TR change that made it no longer deadly to the caster -- really appreciate that change.
EMBODIEDCHAOS
Exploding Holy Weapons
03/05/2015 02:04 AM CST
I was just informed that holy weapons will explode if used to land the killing blow on a player, is this true...? If it is true, why the hell has it not been changed yet? This makes holy weapons virtually useless for real pvp.
LENNONJON
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/05/2015 02:11 AM CST
>I was just informed that holy weapons will explode if used to land the killing blow on a player, is this true...?<
It's not true.
However, I think there used to be an effect that if you used a holy weapon with a tanked soul it could kill you. I don't know if that is still a thing.
--Just a Squire
It's not true.
However, I think there used to be an effect that if you used a holy weapon with a tanked soul it could kill you. I don't know if that is still a thing.
--Just a Squire
2DUMBARSE
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/05/2015 03:27 PM CST
>However, I think there used to be an effect that if you used a holy weapon with a tanked soul it could kill you. I don't know if that is still a thing.
I'm curious about this if anyone knows for sure. I've gone as far as killing with my holy weapon while "pallid grey" in group fights and it hasn't resulted in death. I'm willing to kill on my paladin or have my paladin killed for science if nobody knows and anybody else is curious.
I'm curious about this if anyone knows for sure. I've gone as far as killing with my holy weapon while "pallid grey" in group fights and it hasn't resulted in death. I'm willing to kill on my paladin or have my paladin killed for science if nobody knows and anybody else is curious.
LENNONJON
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/05/2015 04:53 PM CST
>I'm willing to kill on my paladin or have my paladin killed for science if nobody knows and anybody else is curious.<
Warb charges NoobieJoe with sword in hand screaming "FOOOOOOOR SCIENCE!"
--Just a Squire
Warb charges NoobieJoe with sword in hand screaming "FOOOOOOOR SCIENCE!"
--Just a Squire
ASHAMAN1
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 08:23 AM CST
I was always under the impression the weapon was destroyed if used at too low a soulstate - Not terribly willing to risk such.
>>Warb charges NoobieJoe with sword in hand screaming "FOOOOOOOR SCIENCE!"
Great, now THATS gonna be stuck in my head all day, thanks heh.
Samsaren
>>Warb charges NoobieJoe with sword in hand screaming "FOOOOOOOR SCIENCE!"
Great, now THATS gonna be stuck in my head all day, thanks heh.
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 09:14 AM CST
Haha. Now I have to do it. I think the test instance is still open, so I shouldn't suffer any serious consequences in prime.
LENNONJON
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 11:49 AM CST
<Haha. Now I have to do it. I think the test instance is still open, so I shouldn't suffer any serious consequences in prime.<
You could do that, but Test is artificial, in that it contains code that does not exist in the Live version of the game. Therefore ecological validity, and hence generalizability, suffers. Let's do this right!
--Just a Squire
You could do that, but Test is artificial, in that it contains code that does not exist in the Live version of the game. Therefore ecological validity, and hence generalizability, suffers. Let's do this right!
--Just a Squire
2DUMBARSE
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 04:43 PM CST
You rub the soulstone...
The soulstone freezes your hand severely, writhing with a life of its own! Its glossy surface clouds over in deepest black which simply mirrors the corruption of your soul.
> hurl
Your soul is not clean enough to use this Dwarven greataxe properly.
A cracking noise comes from your Dwarven greataxe!
You feel a sudden jolt of pain shoot from the Dwarven greataxe up through your arm and explode into your skull!
< Moving with indomitable grace, you hurl a massive Dwarven greataxe with a bearded silversteel blade at XXX. XXX completely fails to block with his gargoyle-hide shield.
The greataxe lands a cataclysmic (22/23) strike (Did the Greater Fist just erupt again?) that rips into the right calf, lightly stunning him.
The Dwarven greataxe lodges itself shallowly into XXX!
[You're bruised, winded, solidly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 6 sec.]
!R>
Your Dwarven greataxe leaps back into your right hand!
!R>
You feel fully rested.
!>
You close to pole weapon range on XXX.
!>
The serpent earcuff coils, sensing your danger. Tiny fangs suddenly puncture your flesh, but the expected pain doesn't come. Instead, soothing warmth radiates outward from the bite, leaving you feeling a little better than before.
!>
You close to melee range on XXX.
!> slice
Your soul is not clean enough to use this Dwarven greataxe properly.
A cracking noise comes from your Dwarven greataxe!
You feel a sudden jolt of pain shoot from the Dwarven greataxe up through your arm and explode into your skull!
< Driving in with exacting precision, you slice a massive Dwarven greataxe with a bearded silversteel blade at XXX. XXX completely fails to block with his gargoyle-hide shield.
The greataxe lands a massive (12/23) strike that fills the left eye with blood from a deep cut across the socket, knocking him completely senseless.
A soft red glow appears over your body.
A light silvery glow surrounds your Dwarven greataxe and it stays in your hand.
You feel the knowledge of the Divine Radiance spell slip from your mind.
Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your soul and you struggle to remain tied to this world.
A chill takes the seat of your soul as your remaining spiritual strength bleeds away steadily. However, you are comforted that you have curried the favor of your god, which will greatly improve the course of your resurrection or reincarnation.
Your body will decay beyond its ability to hold your soul in 195 minutes.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 4 sec.]
The soulstone freezes your hand severely, writhing with a life of its own! Its glossy surface clouds over in deepest black which simply mirrors the corruption of your soul.
> hurl
Your soul is not clean enough to use this Dwarven greataxe properly.
A cracking noise comes from your Dwarven greataxe!
You feel a sudden jolt of pain shoot from the Dwarven greataxe up through your arm and explode into your skull!
< Moving with indomitable grace, you hurl a massive Dwarven greataxe with a bearded silversteel blade at XXX. XXX completely fails to block with his gargoyle-hide shield.
The greataxe lands a cataclysmic (22/23) strike (Did the Greater Fist just erupt again?) that rips into the right calf, lightly stunning him.
The Dwarven greataxe lodges itself shallowly into XXX!
[You're bruised, winded, solidly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 6 sec.]
!R>
Your Dwarven greataxe leaps back into your right hand!
!R>
You feel fully rested.
!>
You close to pole weapon range on XXX.
!>
The serpent earcuff coils, sensing your danger. Tiny fangs suddenly puncture your flesh, but the expected pain doesn't come. Instead, soothing warmth radiates outward from the bite, leaving you feeling a little better than before.
!>
You close to melee range on XXX.
!> slice
Your soul is not clean enough to use this Dwarven greataxe properly.
A cracking noise comes from your Dwarven greataxe!
You feel a sudden jolt of pain shoot from the Dwarven greataxe up through your arm and explode into your skull!
< Driving in with exacting precision, you slice a massive Dwarven greataxe with a bearded silversteel blade at XXX. XXX completely fails to block with his gargoyle-hide shield.
The greataxe lands a massive (12/23) strike that fills the left eye with blood from a deep cut across the socket, knocking him completely senseless.
A soft red glow appears over your body.
A light silvery glow surrounds your Dwarven greataxe and it stays in your hand.
You feel the knowledge of the Divine Radiance spell slip from your mind.
Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your soul and you struggle to remain tied to this world.
A chill takes the seat of your soul as your remaining spiritual strength bleeds away steadily. However, you are comforted that you have curried the favor of your god, which will greatly improve the course of your resurrection or reincarnation.
Your body will decay beyond its ability to hold your soul in 195 minutes.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 4 sec.]
LENNONJON
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 04:48 PM CST
>You feel a sudden jolt of pain shoot from the Dwarven greataxe up through your arm and explode into your skull!<
That looked fun! Thanks for testing it out.
--Just a Squire
That looked fun! Thanks for testing it out.
--Just a Squire
BADGOPHER
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 06:21 PM CST
This may be a stupid question, but was it just that 1-2 punch dead? You went from bruised to dead, so I assume so, but I is r smurt sometimes.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/06/2015 07:32 PM CST
A, Nice axe
B, hilarious
C, thanks for testing
Samsaren
B, hilarious
C, thanks for testing
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: Exploding Holy Weapons
03/07/2015 01:54 PM CST
My pleasure, guys.
>This may be a stupid question, but was it just that 1-2 punch dead? You went from bruised to dead, so I assume so, but I is r smurt sometimes.
Yeah, two hits from completely healthy.
>This may be a stupid question, but was it just that 1-2 punch dead? You went from bruised to dead, so I assume so, but I is r smurt sometimes.
Yeah, two hits from completely healthy.
