I rolled up a Paladin last weekend and I believe I want to play him as devoted to one of the dark gods, Urrem'tier or Aldauth. I want to hide and stalk, and want to not really care about my soul state. My primary question is, does soul state effect more than just ability to lead and glyph? Can I effectively play a paladin w/ a shot soul state?


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage - among others, now
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

Hmm, that's a real shame. I'd really like to see Dark Paladins (classic Anti-Paladin) have different, comparable abilities to the goody-two-shoes (no offense). I mean, a paladin's just supposed to be a Warrior with the favor of a certain diety, right? So it would stand that a mean/evil diety would have mean/evil followers. Hmm. I'm awfully tired, not making much sense. Perhaps I'll try again tomorrow.


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

<<I mean, a paladin's just supposed to be a Warrior with the favor of a certain diety, right?>>

The Guild has a Code. It is in Paladins A-Z, which effectively answers this question. Now, whether you follow the Code or not is up to you and your RP style.

Good luck.


Madigan

>I'm thinking, or perhaps hoping, that the upcoming faith system will allow a greater versatility for Paladin roleplay and still allow progress in the game.

Perhaps instead of thinking and hoping, those who are interesting in playing an anti-Paladin can start lobbying? I think the foil of a Paladin has tremendous potential and relevance in DR. Wasn't there a Dwarven Paladin that was a follower of Asketi, that was running around killing people? Or was that a Cleric?

I could see there being a guild, maybe in Muspar'i, where there's a dark paladin guild, headed up by a S'Kra follower of Urrem'tier. I would really really love this.


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

>Nehros was kind enough to post an outline of the Faith system that he's currently working on. The last thing that will help is constantly asking if it's done yet.

I'm not talking about badgering anyone, I'm talking about sharing new ideas amongst ourselves and giving suggestions to the Team. Is it at a point in development where it's closed, or can there be a bit flex/adding of new things in? By the way, where can I find this outline?


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

>>By the way, where can I find this outline?

Believe it's the most recent post in the GM announcements folder.


~Thilan

>>So, playing a dark paladin is not only doable, it is done often (at least within the confines of the current soul system). I recommend you look up Baelor if you want a taste of the "dark side".

So he does not use Glyphs, Smite, Lead, and he will abstain from the upcoming Auras too, huh?

I don't mean 'Pretend I'm a Dark Paladin and still tend people's wounds to gain soul state between roleplay.' I mean an actual Dark Paladin. This would first require an overhaul of the soul state level a la Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. In other words, there is no 'bad' soul, there is only light, dark, and neutral. If you're an evil Paladin than having a black soul state would be desirable: not because your commitment to your god is lackluster (that would be represented by neutral soul state) but because your evil god enjoys it when you do evil things.

Not only would this require a soul system rewrite but also the introduction of various ways to gain 'evil' devotion, probably changing archways/soul stones/holy icons or holy weapons, and the 'pristine soul' brawling bonus to include those on the opposite end of the spectrum, too.

Of course I'm not claiming I am entitled to these things. How Paladins are handled is up to Team Paladin and to some extent the long-time Paladin players. If someone wants to roleplay a Dark Paladin and deal with the consequences than more power to them. However, I would not consider anything the system can currently handle a Dark or Anti-Paladin so much as a Fallen Paladin who is having an identity crisis.

Paladins are a terrific guild but they are also one of the guilds with fewer members. As evidenced here there is a fairly sizable group of non-Paladin players interested in playing Paladins in ways the system does not (currently) support.

A thing to consider...

Paladins revere all gods, and thier aspects. We (used in the sense of guild literature and whatnot), tend to follow Chadatru and Rutilor, yet we still honor all gods. Individual paladins can chose a more focused faith on another diety or aspect, but the key thing, that the Code shows rather nicely, is we are more drawing our powers from all the gods, not just one.

Personally, I'm all for someone who, in that kinda setup, can be more oriented to a darker aspect, and yet still manage to avoid becomming a dork about it. Some of the most sinister and evil people can come across as the nicest and most honest.

Samsaren

Guys, I'm enjoying this thread but how about if we move it over to a more appropriate folder.

Thanks!

~Maece

"LIFE EXPECTANCY: REGULAR OR EXTRA-CRISPY?"

Feast, 2005

*I rolled up a Paladin last weekend and I believe I want to play him as devoted to one of the dark gods, Urrem'tier or Aldauth. I want to hide and stalk, and want to not really care about my soul state. My primary question is, does soul state effect more than just ability to lead and glyph? Can I effectively play a paladin w/ a shot soul state?

Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage - among others, now
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.
*

I have been able to fairly move my way through the guild with following a different sort of Credo than the rest of the Paladins.

Modified version of the code to fit a paladin of Aldauth(thats the path I chose)

You twist and warp the code to mean how you want it to mean.

A Paladin supports and defends Good and opposes Evil. (Good and Evil are a point of view)

A Paladin is a Leader in righteous combat.(Definately)

When it is necessary to fight, the Paladin will seek to guide and inspire his comrades, taking a forward position in the battle and facing the foe boldly. A Paladin does not hide from his foe or sneak about.(I never hide or sneak about)

A Paladin is a Protector. (You choose what to protect wisely)

He will seek to prevent harm to the innocent and will place himself at risk in order to accomplish this if need be.(Innocent is a relative term)

A Paladin is Just and works to promote and enforce Justice and the Law.(Law first and foremost, Justice second and your form of justice may differ from others)

If a Paladin does not agree with a law, he must still respect it and should work to change it rather than disregarding it. The only exception to this is if the Paladin believes the law to be truly Evil. In this instance, the Paladin must follow the dictates of his conscience. (Amen)

A Paladin is Honest.(Always tell the truth I agree, even if it hurts someones feelings, no maam I shant kiss you, for thine are ugly)

He will not lie or otherwise seek to deceive a person. A Paladin does not cheat or seek to take unfair advantage in his dealings with others.(Never do that)

A Paladin is Loyal.(Always but your loyalty should be well placed)

He does not betray his god(never), his liege-lord(don't have one), his guild(never), his family(dont have any), or his friends(few and far between).

A Paladin is Holy(I shine with the best of em).

He seeks to do that which pleases his god in all manners of the Code, and knows that the purity of his soul has a profound impact on the abilities the gods bless him with.(amen)

While it is not required that a Paladin worships Chadatru or Rutilor above other gods, he ignores the wishes of the God of Justice at his peril. Serving another god or gods is possible for a Paladin provided that the path that he follows does not work against Good or Justice. It is not appropriate for a Paladin to work toward the ends of a dark aspect since the goals of such are not in keeping with what is Good and Just. (Some are just not fit to carry out the will of a stronger god, while they have thier place in the guild it is our job to foster out those known to do evil but the guys that like to shine in thier armor won't act on because they have not been "Caught" or "Proof" of thier deeds are made).

---

Death comes to us all sooner or later. It is neither Good nor Evil.

Lets take a look at the Spartan way of life and death. Tossing babies off cliffs if they weren't perfect sounds evil yeah? Well not in thier culture. Think hard on some sort of culture or way of life your character came from and base that on your belief system, then base the code off of that.

The only part you might have a problem with is the last part of the code. I generally gear my paladin towards fighting undead, necro, abysmal type creatures, demon type things (which I am unsure what category you would call them because demons are not suppose to exist)

He finds cowards offensive and will treat them sub par to a sentient being (exceptions: children and women)
He finds thieves offensive and will meetle out justice any way he sees fit (you steal you loose a hand)
He is very easily insulted and demands respect, respect not given bad things happen. (think samuari culture portrayed in the movies)

Now while alot of these ideals sound silly they do make for some quite interesting roleplay. I think the majority of people that interact with me enjoy it. Those that don't know what they need to do to avoid me.

Now items of note to help you get around mechanics since the game is not set up to accept this philosopy is:

Pilgrims badge (Pray badge gains soulstate)every 20-30 mins
Almsbox se of the bank (put 5 silver kronar in almsbox gains soulstate)
Tend a non paladin wounds (gains soulstate)

those three are enough to get me by to get my soul state up to what I need it in realitively timely fashion.

Always make sure you have consent when you engage in combat with someone either by way of whispers, thier actions giving you consent, or them threatening you.

I have played in several on-line and pen-and-paper role playing games (yes, I'm old!) and the concept/arguement/discussion of Dark- or Anti-Paladins always seems to come up. Here's is what always seems to come out in these discussions: Someone wants to take the rules as they are and twist them to make themselves an uber-character. MOST (no, not all) people who strive to change established rules (like race/guild/magic/etc.) are doing so that they may make themselves the "invincible" character. Being predominately a Paladin player, I shudder evertime this discussion begins again. A Paladin is a Holy Warrior for their god, and while the Dark gods do exist and certainly would have their own versions of Paladins perhaps, these characters would be monsters, foes, in short NPCs (I think they are called GNPCs here). I am NOT bashing anyone who wishes to play one of these characters, just suggesting that such a wish may not be one that should be pursued for play- and concept- balance. A character should have a background and THEN decide stats/race/etc, not "Roll the BEST I can be and then decide on background based on what I want"

Off my soap-box now. Let the shuddering begin.

Gothak Glimbeard
"May Chadatru grant you justice, may Everild favor you in battle, and may Truffenyi protect your soul."

There are a few of us out there....Dunno why I am still allowed in the guild but whatever...

Crusader Taghz

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother...", William Shakespeare.

Firstly you have to define what constitutes light and dark in DR. I don't personally feel that skulking in the shadows and backstabbing someone is either heroic or fantastic. However, in DR excelling in these traits is considered to make you a master of combat... for some reason... Also, charging courageously into combat and being one-shot-killed isn't terribly heroic either is it? So there are varying degrees of light and dark that need to be defined. Personally I'd think that there would be an outcast sect of paladins that have not so much "fallen" into evil and now trade recipes for 'human baby and fava bean pies' but rather those paladins that have chosen to favour a dark aspect and act accordingly. Realistically though before creating a whole new sect that openly worships Asketi and storms into towns once a year riding black unicorns I agree that the existing guild should get some "holy teeth" in their abilities. Core magic considerations are fine, and the usual nonsensical, disruptive GvG idiocy always seems to derail any attempts at making the guild more intersting and powerful, but paladin magic and abilities need work to offset the moral imperatives that define the guild currently. I understand that some of this work is ongoing in various forms.

Cheers - Tristtan

>I think a few new spells should come first,

That's my take on it as well, and why I don't think it would be worth the effort until existing abilites and skills are fleshed out. It would require a completely opposing set of mechanics, abilities and spells. The Asketi worshipper, for example, would gain soul for a PvP kill and fall to her knees crying for casting AG or courage on anyone but themselves. They would still be the militant hand of their chosen deity but their skills and penalties would be based more closely on the deity they worship. I think that this concept, skills and abilities focused on a chosen deity, has merit in a general sense for paladins, but I'd rather see development "points" going into current projects :)

Cheers - Tristtan

IMO, the last thing we need are new spells. It already takes intensive mana and time to spell up for anything serious.

I recommend working on some core issues:

1. Auto-retreat.
2. Damage calcs.
3. Armor scaling.
4. Faiths.
5. Expansion of protect ability.

Anyway, just my thoughts.


Madigan

True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

Arthur Ashe

>>IMO, the last thing we need are new spells. It already takes intensive mana and time to spell up for anything serious.

Totally agree with this. We need to BREAK this paradigm of "fantasic things can only happen with spells". We should be able to do "fantasy" things using OTHER methods besides spells. Spells are NOT our guild's forte and shouldn't be.

Do fantasy things based on our soul or our "aura" or our "guild focus" or whatever justification you wish to use. Just let's get away from being tied to SPELLS to do this.

Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!

Although the topic is interesting to read about, we need to move this out of the Camp Squire folder as this is to help new paladins.

~Maece

"You thought it was me gnawing on the passengers? Nah, I'm a vegetarian."

Flight of the Living Dead, 2007