Hello, I noticed that CRC only seems to help with grappling maneuvers immediately after being cast, so I checked using "exp mods" and sure enough, the tactics buff appears to wear off under 3 minutes on a full cast, even though the spell still looks active for 10 minutes using "perceive". Does anyone else have this problem? If so, could it get a look please?
TINKAN
2DUMBARSE
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/10/2017 09:47 PM CDT
Good catch. It always felt like the tactics buff was short-lived, but I chalked that up entirely to it being a battle spell (shouldn't be IMO).
You reach out with your senses and see pulsating (10/21) streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area. Flecks of black drift slowly through the mana streams.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is fulgent (16/21) mana to the west.
You sense the Gauge Flow spell upon you, which will last for about nine roisaen.
You sense the Crusader's Challenge spell upon you, which will last for about five roisaen.
You remember a way to combine the weaves of the Harvest symbiosis with another spell.
You have not exhausted your ability to smite your foes at all.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R> exp mods
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:
+72 Skinning
R>
The spell has some other issues, too, if someone does take a look, including:
• No messaging when the taunt fails due to depleted taunt charge/counter/whatever or failed contest
• There's only 1 taunt per... I think minute, whether the taunt fails or not; feels way too limiting
• The spell does nothing if at missile range against a PC (such as if someone insta-retreats) but still consumes the one charge
• The spell does nothing if in an empty room, but still consumes the single charge (seems the charge model just doesn't work well for this spell)
• Taunt contest too heavily skewed to the defender (suggest changing it to mind v. will like Halt)
• It's an esoteric battle buff spell, which I think is unlike other esoteric battle buffs (this frankly sucks from my user perspective)
• IIRC if you taunt at pole but advance to melee, it nullifies the no-retreat part
• (Thanks to TINKAN) The tactics buff doesn't last the duration of the spell
In PvP, if you get passed the fact that the contest is heavily skewed in the defender's favor, the target can instant-retreat. If you taunt while the target insta-retreats to missile, the spell does nothing. If you get lucky and successfully taunt while the person is at pole, you can't advance to melee because it'll nullify the anti-retreat. Meanwhile, the spell only lasts ~8 minutes at max mana (a feat usually reserved for 170+ circle paladins) and the tactics buff only lasts ~3 minutes.
You reach out with your senses and see pulsating (10/21) streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area. Flecks of black drift slowly through the mana streams.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is fulgent (16/21) mana to the west.
You sense the Gauge Flow spell upon you, which will last for about nine roisaen.
You sense the Crusader's Challenge spell upon you, which will last for about five roisaen.
You remember a way to combine the weaves of the Harvest symbiosis with another spell.
You have not exhausted your ability to smite your foes at all.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R> exp mods
The following skills are currently under the influence of a modifier:
+72 Skinning
R>
The spell has some other issues, too, if someone does take a look, including:
• No messaging when the taunt fails due to depleted taunt charge/counter/whatever or failed contest
• There's only 1 taunt per... I think minute, whether the taunt fails or not; feels way too limiting
• The spell does nothing if at missile range against a PC (such as if someone insta-retreats) but still consumes the one charge
• The spell does nothing if in an empty room, but still consumes the single charge (seems the charge model just doesn't work well for this spell)
• Taunt contest too heavily skewed to the defender (suggest changing it to mind v. will like Halt)
• It's an esoteric battle buff spell, which I think is unlike other esoteric battle buffs (this frankly sucks from my user perspective)
• IIRC if you taunt at pole but advance to melee, it nullifies the no-retreat part
• (Thanks to TINKAN) The tactics buff doesn't last the duration of the spell
In PvP, if you get passed the fact that the contest is heavily skewed in the defender's favor, the target can instant-retreat. If you taunt while the target insta-retreats to missile, the spell does nothing. If you get lucky and successfully taunt while the person is at pole, you can't advance to melee because it'll nullify the anti-retreat. Meanwhile, the spell only lasts ~8 minutes at max mana (a feat usually reserved for 170+ circle paladins) and the tactics buff only lasts ~3 minutes.
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/11/2017 09:31 AM CDT
Fixed the Tactics buff duration.
Fixed another bug that was stymieing the spell's potency from extra mana. I suspect this was what looked like a skewed contest (which doesn't exist as a spell-specific thing in Magic 3).
Added messaging for when the taunt timer expires and for the no-retreat effect.
>If you taunt while the target insta-retreats to missile, the spell does nothing.
>IIRC if you taunt at pole but advance to melee, it nullifies the no-retreat part
I wasn't able to reproduce these.
GM Grejuva
Fixed another bug that was stymieing the spell's potency from extra mana. I suspect this was what looked like a skewed contest (which doesn't exist as a spell-specific thing in Magic 3).
Added messaging for when the taunt timer expires and for the no-retreat effect.
>If you taunt while the target insta-retreats to missile, the spell does nothing.
>IIRC if you taunt at pole but advance to melee, it nullifies the no-retreat part
I wasn't able to reproduce these.
GM Grejuva
ISHARON
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/12/2017 12:09 AM CDT
Thanks for the quick bug fixes, Grejuva!
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Paladin new player guide: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Paladin_new_player_guide
armor and shields: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_and_shield_player_guide
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Paladin new player guide: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Paladin_new_player_guide
armor and shields: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Armor_and_shield_player_guide
TINKAN
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/12/2017 11:18 AM CDT
Wow, thanks for the quick response Grejuva! I did some testing and it looks like the buff duration is fixed. also, I can land the taunt at-level now, which is really nice. There still seems to be a bug with the taunt, though. One minute after the taunt, you get the messaging "You are able to taunt with Crusader's Challenge again." If you try to taunt though, nothing happens. After another minute (two total from the successful taunt), you again get the messaging "You are able to taunt with Crusader's Challenge again." and only after this second round can you taunt again successfully.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
<player2> is enraged by your challenge, his focus remaining on you.
You are able to taunt with Crusader's Challenge again.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
You are able to taunt with Crusader's Challenge again.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
<player2> is enraged by your challenge, his focus remaining on you.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
<player2> is enraged by your challenge, his focus remaining on you.
You are able to taunt with Crusader's Challenge again.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
You are able to taunt with Crusader's Challenge again.
>taunt battle <player2>
You smack your broadsword against your shield before pointing it towards <player2>.
<player2> is enraged by your challenge, his focus remaining on you.
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/12/2017 11:41 AM CDT
Assuming that was on the same target, I think it's the 2-minute protection from repeated taunts. I'm not sure that's even necessary, but I'll see about adding a message for it at least.
GM Grejuva
GM Grejuva
2DUMBARSE
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/12/2017 01:45 PM CDT
Thanks very much for the fixes!
>Assuming that was on the same target, I think it's the 2-minute protection from repeated taunts. I'm not sure that's even necessary, but I'll see about adding a message for it at least.
I don't mind the timer so much as the fact that it's triggered by failure (see below). That's more of a PvE issue than a PvP issue, of course. If, for instance, I have 4 targets on me and I want to use taunt to protect someone, it'll fail and consume the charge.
> taunt
You raise your hand and beckon that you are ready.
>
You feel fully rested.
> taunt xxxx
You thumb your nose a few times in xxxx's direction.
>>If you taunt while the target insta-retreats to missile, the spell does nothing.
It looks like this has been changed since I last tested, which admittedly was likely over a year ago. Or, I'm misremembering. In any case, looks like it's working with regular retreat. The only challenge I can see with this is one can still leave the room with a missile range taunt, but I don't know if that's something that can change. Also, it looks like hangback continues to work while under taunt.
By the way, to be fair, it looks like the taunt effect persists beyond the expiration of the spell. While that benefits us, I'm reporting it in case it's not intended. That said, if that's not intended and the taunt is made to expire with the spell, such as by dispel, would you please consider making it a standard spell rather than a battle spell? That is, unless other paladins prefer having it as a battle spell.
>Assuming that was on the same target, I think it's the 2-minute protection from repeated taunts. I'm not sure that's even necessary, but I'll see about adding a message for it at least.
I don't mind the timer so much as the fact that it's triggered by failure (see below). That's more of a PvE issue than a PvP issue, of course. If, for instance, I have 4 targets on me and I want to use taunt to protect someone, it'll fail and consume the charge.
> taunt
You raise your hand and beckon that you are ready.
>
You feel fully rested.
> taunt xxxx
You thumb your nose a few times in xxxx's direction.
>>If you taunt while the target insta-retreats to missile, the spell does nothing.
It looks like this has been changed since I last tested, which admittedly was likely over a year ago. Or, I'm misremembering. In any case, looks like it's working with regular retreat. The only challenge I can see with this is one can still leave the room with a missile range taunt, but I don't know if that's something that can change. Also, it looks like hangback continues to work while under taunt.
By the way, to be fair, it looks like the taunt effect persists beyond the expiration of the spell. While that benefits us, I'm reporting it in case it's not intended. That said, if that's not intended and the taunt is made to expire with the spell, such as by dispel, would you please consider making it a standard spell rather than a battle spell? That is, unless other paladins prefer having it as a battle spell.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/13/2017 09:38 AM CDT
>>standard spell rather than a battle spell? That is, unless other paladins prefer having it as a battle spell.
Battle spells as a whole are in a rough spot. The idea was decent initially, but in practice I found I dislike them in every guild I play. I might find them more palatable/usable if they took a 66% reduction in mana cost to go with the duration/prep, but as it stands casually tossing 100 mana into a mini-duration spell while maintaining any offensive magical pressure or a cyclic is simply impossible. Maybe the prime folks with crazy spells like POM can do it, but I sure can't.
Samsaren
Battle spells as a whole are in a rough spot. The idea was decent initially, but in practice I found I dislike them in every guild I play. I might find them more palatable/usable if they took a 66% reduction in mana cost to go with the duration/prep, but as it stands casually tossing 100 mana into a mini-duration spell while maintaining any offensive magical pressure or a cyclic is simply impossible. Maybe the prime folks with crazy spells like POM can do it, but I sure can't.
Samsaren
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/14/2017 03:46 PM CDT
Okay, there's now messaging for failure due to immunity, and that will no longer trigger the self-timer.
>>Also, it looks like hangback continues to work while under taunt.
Fixed.
>>By the way, to be fair, it looks like the taunt effect persists beyond the expiration of the spell. While that benefits us, I'm reporting it in case it's not intended.
Consider it intended.
GM Grejuva
>>Also, it looks like hangback continues to work while under taunt.
Fixed.
>>By the way, to be fair, it looks like the taunt effect persists beyond the expiration of the spell. While that benefits us, I'm reporting it in case it's not intended.
Consider it intended.
GM Grejuva
ASHAMAN1
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/14/2017 05:39 PM CDT
Grejuva, thank you for your attention to this spell - it is appreciated.
Samsaren
Samsaren
2DUMBARSE
Re: Another Crusader's Challenge bug
09/15/2017 07:51 AM CDT
Indeed. Thank you very much for the fixes and improvements!
