For those who wished a log, here it is, albeit heavily edited. There were other player-run events in Shard going on at that time so people were bouncing in an out which may not be apparent. Though only two of us really presented anything in a sizable manner, this log may still be a bit long, so be forewarned. Only read ahead if you actually care about this sort of thing.
Also, thanks to everyone who attended and a big thank you to Malzard and Meyann who offered the most input.
You say, "Well.. if this our attendance, then perhaps I should begin."
Malzard says, "Renryra shall guide us from here."
Malzard gestures at you.
You say, "For those who I have not had the pleasure of meeting, I am Renryra Endaer'i, a researcher with the Progeny of Tezirah."
You say, "I wished to hold this gathering of the minds for the simple reason that it seems that, at least among the students, there has been little debate or advancement on things we use in our daily practices."
You say, "Imagine an archer who fires a bow but does not know how it was crafted or why the arrow flies the way it does. This is the average Moon Mage."
You say, "I wished to begin tonight with the Plane of Probability. As it happens, this is the Plane we as Moon Mages connect to when performing our observations and workings with Fate."
You say, "But also one that is tied to our numerous magical applications."
You say, "Since I have initiated this, I would feel rather silly if I did not lead off with some of my own studies."
You say, "As Malzard has already deduced, my own area of study lately has been on what we've coined "conceptual life". Most of you know them as Shadow Creatures."
You say, "However, conceptual life goes far beyond creatures of "Shadow"."
You say, "Specifically, I took notice of an old debate on Shadowlings."
You ask, "The debate is, do our spells Create them? Or do we summon them?"
You say, "When researching this, I went through many different thoughts. However, I've made the jump to the Summon side of the debate."
You say, "And I'd like to go over why I believe this is so."
Meyann says, "When you're open to counterarguments, I would speak."
You nod.
You say, "Of course, I look forward to them."
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Malzard says, "A counter before you present your own evidence."
Malzard wryly says to you, "You have your work cut out for you here."
You say, "Allow me first to state that conceptual life is just that, life that embodies a concept. It is alive in the sense that it exists, but it is completely alien from us. It does not have the sort of free will that we enjoy as members of the plane of abiding."
You say, "Everything they do and are capable of doing is bound into whatever concept it is of."
You say, "For instance, a voidspawn is a concept of anger or rage, as is a Shadow Master."
You say, "These creatures tend to go after anyone in the area of their release into this plane."
Malzard ponders.
Malzard asks, "Concepts can share the same life space?"
Osus asks Meyann, "Isnt that what chopped you up the other day?"
Meyann nods to Osus.
Osus covers his mouth with his hand.
You say, "There can be multiples of the same type, if that is your question."
Malzard gives a slight nod.
Malzard says, "Well, and of differing degree."
You say, "Continuing, though, we know for a fact there are other concepts not dealing with rage. It is not that the monsters we deal with all seek our blood, some we have dealt with are seeking something else."
Malzard says, "Voidspawns are not often mistaken for Shadow Masters."
You say, "Those can look to the research on Arbiter in Darkness and Emperor of the Line entities to see this."
You nod to Malzard.
Meyann gestures at a sulking Shadow Servant.
You say, "So with this, I can say, we know there are more concepts within the plane than simply creatures of rage."
You say, "Moving further along, if one looks to the study on the entity known as Abyssal Child, we see that the great intelligence there within the plane actually created Voidspawn when it was angered."
You notice as an enormous battle-scarred desert leopard slinks into the room.
The enormous leopard begins to watch the goings on carefully.
You say, "Perhaps this being creates the life within, perhaps not, but when angered, it's mental projections took shape. If this is the case, it is likely also the case that other mental projections are being crafted as well. Though for now, we cannot say for sure, other than we know other concepts exist."
You say, "And we have seen these concepts summoned, such as the Arbiter."
You say, "By "we", I mean the records of our ancestors."
You say, "Lastly, to create life, would seem to me to require a mental projection, such as the Abyssal Child entity had used to make voidspawn."
You say, "However.. I recently found notes describing the Manastorms, which created Shadowlings during it's chaos."
You say, "Which implies to me that the chaos of it's magic was able to bring into the world something that already existed elsewhere."
You smile.
You ask, "I believe that concludes my points. There were those who wished to discuss them?"
Malzard casually observes the area.
Meyann nods.
You nod to Meyann.
Meyann says, "I agree that the creation of life is far beyond our scope or even our ability and though our creations we can say for certain that we have not created life."
Meyann says, "You can't imbue a summoned creation with a language you yourself don't understand."
Meyann says, "Nor summon a servant in the water and watch as it curses you and expect that you gave it that animosity towards water."
You say, "Very experienced points."
You nod to Meyann.
Meyann says, "Extra-planar life is...in my studies, a single organism that's quite beyond our understanding. Take your hand for instance."
Meyann says, "Your hand manipulates things, it protects, it does your bidding."
Malzard says, "I'm sure the subjugated animals of War Mages have nothing in common with what we discussion here."
Malzard scoffs.
Meyann says, "If I were to grab your wrist and in so doing control your hand, I believe that's the closest analogy I can make."
Meyann says, "When we tap into that creature we're taking certain aspects of it and bringing them to
Meyann says, "Like skimming oil from a soup."
Meyann says, "You take what you want and leave the rest. The angry aspect, or rage as you called them are the result of a non-harmonious taking."
Meyann says, "And the resulting...almost immune response."
Meyann says, "When I fail a moongate I'm noticed by this immune system and it endeavors, as our own
Meyann says, "A shadowling is the result of siphoning a small portion of that vast consciousness that means 'shadowling' and forsaking the rest."
Malzard asks, "Oh? And do more experienced immune systems ever manage better than a novice?"
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Meyann smiles at Malzard.
Malzard asks, "You'd think we might learn, or what good is study?"
You ask, "Am I understanding that you believe each creatures is a part of that massive intelligence?"
Malzard says, "Or merely that a "shadowling" means a "shadowling."
Meyann says, "Correct, or not even that intelligent. It is alive insofar as we believe things live...but say I cut off your hand. It would be of little use to me."
Osus says, "Sounds more like its a portion of a given collective or intelligence, emotion, and substance that you remove or manipulate parts of to effect the change you hope to have in our plane."
Malzard asks, "So I belive Osus lives, so you can cut his throat?"
Malzard says, "Do try it now."
Malzard matter-of-factly says, "I do believe...."
Meyann says, "But if you're body was so slow that you could mean to close your hand in a weeks time, and I summoned your hand just prior to it closing to utilize that action for my own purposes...that's not indicative of a massive intellect. Just...a difference."
Osus says to Malzard, "I emptied your head 5 times in that Maze, I can do it here just as easily."
Meyann smiles quietly to herself.
Ruea laughs softly, trying to hide her amusement.
Ruea says, "Boys, behave."
Meyann says, "There's so much to learn but we have to be cautious lest we draw the attention of an autonomic response that would easily crush us."
Meyann says, "Or ruin our repore with it."
You say, "By massive intelligence, I was referring to the entity I had mentioned earlier, sorry if there was confusion."
Meyann says, "So to speak."
You nod to Meyann.
You say, "That was a very well thoughtout response, thank you."
Meyann says, "It's humbling to imagine yourself as a lamprey."
Meyann smiles.
Malzard asks, "Is it?"
Meyann says to Malzard, "Ego is more comforting."
Malzard matter-of-factly says, "Ego is reality, I'm afraid."
Malzard says, "What is comforting is understanding planar boundaries."
Osus says to Meyann, "Take off his turban, and his reality is destroyed."
You ask Meyann, "Did you have any other theories you wished to present?"
Osus gestures at Malzard.
Ruea laughs!
Meyann says, "Regarding extra-planar life? No."
Malzard says, "You all will never know."
Osus says to Malzard, "And with it, your Ego."
Meyann says, "Thank you."
Malzard adjusts his silk turban.
You ask, "Regarding the plane itself?"
Meyann says, "Most of my studies have been history lately."
You give a slight nod.
You ask, "Are there any here who have theories they wish to present?"
You say, "If not, I will move on to a topic for more of an open discussion."
Malzard asks, "Perhaps thoughts we should consider?"
Meyann says, "Well given my hyphothesis, conventional communication is a moot point. To learn more about the creature I would suggest we find out what it gains...or why it doesn't care about certain aspects of our intereference."
Meyann says, "Example shadow servants."
Meyann says, "But that's assuming something that's almost impossible to prove."
The enormous leopard growls, "why are some Shadow beings, such as the shadowlings and servants helpful, while others are malevolent?"
Malzard asks, "Oh, does it understand "care"?"
Malzard chuckles to himself.
You say, "I would assume that such lack of concern is bound into it's concept."
You say, "Though I am not sure of the exact concepts of a Shadowling, except perhaps what it actually involves, which is our Attunement."
Meyann says, "Where it doesn't notice any of our involvement but an autonomic response notices some."
Meyann says, "Like a virus."
Meyann pushes her glasses up the bridge of her nose.
Malzard says, "There are two things we can learn quite a lot about the Plane of Probability from."
Meyann peers quizzically at Malzard.
Malzard matter-of-factly says, "The Obelisks and the Astral Plane."
You nod to Malzard.
Malzard says, "The obelisks most directly, but the Astral Plane..."
You say, "I admit to not travelling Grazhir yet.. so my studies are somewhat limited in that aspect."
Meyann asks, "I have very little experience with the astral plane and none with the obelisks, though I understand there's at least one in Qi?"
Malzard says, "I wonder if our veil to Probability is just a bit too thinned when Astral traveling."
You ask Malzard, "How so?"
Malzard asks, "No experienced with the obelisks?"
Malzard shakes his head.
Meyann says to Malzard, "That was my impression. If you suddenly stepped here, then there, there there, it's somewhat likely you'll end up where you meant to go."
You say, "Experience with the obelisks is a somewhat dangerous proposition, as their plane bleeds into ours."
Malzard asks, "Dangerous?"
Malzard chuckles to himself.
You say, "And they do not seem too happy about that fact."
Osus says to Malzard, "Yes, dangerous, like your potatoes."
Malzard matter-of-factly says, "We demand it of our most dedicated students."
You grin.
You say, "Well.. I did not say I do not plan on it, simply that I have not, yet."
Malzard says, "The Obelisk..."
Malzard says, "...the thing that can connect to the Plane of Probability that is not a trained Mage."
Malzard asks, "And you would wait to see it?"
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Malzard shakes his head.
Malzard says, "What we are, are living Obelisks."
Malzard says, "What attacks us in the Astral Plane..."
Malzard shrugs.
Meyann says, "A base understanding is required for any significant study. I cannot know four multiples of eight without first knowing four plus eight."
Malzard asks, "Is it a form of conceptual life more easily able to present itself there?"
Meyann says, "Throwing yourself at the height of a significant study at the base of your knowledge is wasting time."
Malzard gazes thoughtfully at Meyann.
Meyann blushes a bright red color.
Malzard says, "The Obelisks hold insight for all mages."
Meyann says, "But as I said, I'm currently in my histories."
You say to Malzard, "An interesting question. Some seem to believe he was a past moon mage, but if
You say, "He has a.. different form than most other concepts of anger take. A very specific form."
Meyann says, "If I had to hazard a guess I would say the obelisks are the egg, not the chicken in this instance."
You say, "Highly akin to us."
Meyann says, "And what allowed our forebears to learn the lunar craft."
Meyann says, "But that's guesswork, I've not evidence."
You ask Meyann, "You do not believe our forebears created them?"
Malzard gazes thoughtfully at Meyann.
Meyann says, "I don't know enough without studying them, but if I had to guess if they were there by design or there by accident, I would say accident. They do not react amicably with their environment."
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Malzard says, "By whose design could change your equation."
Malzard asks, "I trust you mean by our design?"
Meyann says, "If they are by design I would say a faulted one. Creations of that magnitude would have an exceptional impact on our world if they were doing as they were designed to."
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Meyann says, "Imagine enchanting a pebble to open a rift that spewed nothing but shadowlings."
Osus says to Meyann, "I'll take 10."
Osus nods in agreement.
Liurilias quietly says to Leucius, "How annoying would that be."
Liurilias shudders.
Leucius says, "Sounds messy."
Meyann says, "And hard on footwear."
Malzard matter-of-factly says to Meyann, "Imagine being a shadowling capable of throwing a pebble into the void."
You ask, "..that begs the question of, what do you believe they were designed to do?"
You ask, "Quick access to beneficial things such as shadowlings?"
Meyann says, "Again...I don't like to spew ideas that have no background in good reading. I couldn't even tell you how old they are. Any number of documented facts would disprove thousands of theories."
Malzard says to Meyann, "That meant a lot of nothing."
Malzard serenely gazes right through Meyann, as if she does not exist.
Malzard glances at you.
Meyann says, "If they're twelve years old...they were created purposefully if incompetently."
You say, "Historically we know them to be older than Tezirah, at least the ones Malzard is referring to."
Meyann says, "Then in keeping with my single-entity theory I would say they're the result of our tampering. A sort of waste feedback. Much like puss runs from an infected wound."
Liurilias softly says, "Now there's a lovely mental image..."
Meyann says, "I will research them more thoroughly once I'm finished with the books I have already."
Malzard asks Meyann, "Let me be clear, you have never seen an Obelisk?"
Malzard frowns at Meyann.
Meyann shakes her head.
Malzard asks, "Yet you relegate them to the puss of our world?"
Malzard gazes thoughtfully at Meyann.
Meyann says, "No, of the extra-planar creature."
Malzard says, "Ah, the puss of the Plane of Probability."
Liurilias asks, "So 'outsiders' are pus?"
Malzard says, "I see."
Liurilias quirks one ear sideways in confusion.
Leucius says, "Better you than me."
Leucius nods to Liurilias.
Malzard says, "I would regrard it with a bit more reverance."
Malzard shrugs.
Liurilias says to Leucius, "Sounds gross."
You ask, "Is there not a new obelisk that has connected to other aspects of the Plane? Releasing creatures of moonlight, rather than shadow?"
Meyann says, "If you equate each failed moongate or 'unharmonious' action as an arrow wound with both an entrance and an exit that bleeds, perhaps they're consolidated exit wounds."
Malzard says to Meyann, "I consider failed Moongates as a wound on our Guild caused by its Students."
Osus asks, "So your guild holds sway over all things that have to do with the Ways?"
Osus grins at Malzard.
Meyann says to Malzard, "And reverence is tantamount to blind subjugation of intelligence in the face of unknowing mysticism. It has no place in the academic."
Malzard asks Meyann, "Oh, was that supposed to mean something?"
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Meyann says, "Not to the reverent."
Meyann says, "In a week it will come to you."
You ask, "Are we certain only failed moongates are a wound?"
Liurilias says, "Or the completed ones..."
Meyann laughs with delight, her eyes full of merriment.
Malzard says to you, "Not at all."
Malzard matter-of-factly says to you, "We've caused more damage than that."
Liurilias gazes thoughtfully at Malzard.
You say, "I am not entirely certain that successful moongates do not cause damage "elsewhere" as well."
Malzard chuckles to himself.
Malzard says, "They are connected, aren't they."
Malzard nods to you.
Malzard says, "Each Moongate could be a bit of a strike against Fate as well."
Meyann says, "I don't believe them to be connected. A successful moongate is tantamount to wiggling your finger. An unsuccessful one to shooting a giant in the foot."
You say, "I was thinking more along the lines of the planar barriers. But it's possible."
Malzard says to Meyann, "None of that makes any sense."
Meyann sighs.
Leucius says, "I guess you better start walking everywhere."
Leucius nods to Malzard.
Malzard says to Meyann, "You will need to be a bit more specific with your nonsense."
Liurilias says to Leucius, "Turbanicus doesn't walk, he levitates."
You glance at Malzard, a male Elothean.
Osus says, "Spent alot of time dying today, maybe he should use gates instead of levitating.."
Osus shrugs.
You glance at Meyann, a female Human.
Leucius says, "Or a catapult."
Meyann says, "Say your arm is a moonbeam, your elbow is a specific moon. Now imagine the distance you want to travel is from your shoulder to your finger and that you have to connect the two. You use the moon, or your elbow as a catch that redirects your momentum. You miss that catch and you've just flung something into some place you don't understand."
Osus exclaims, "Like a catapult!"
Osus praises Leucius.
Leucius nods to Osus.
Leucius strikes a heroic pose.
Liurilias snorts, loudly.
Osus says to Leucius, "You've got some mage in you, that was quite a prediction."
Malzard says to Meyann, "I'm sure you've cleared everything up."
Malzard gives Meyann a slight nod.
Malzard glances at you.
Leucius says, "We are right on top of this chat."
Meyann says to Malzard, "If you simply wish to be flippant I can't help your budding intellect. If you require clarification I can drop my verbage to two claps."
Meyann says to Osus, "I will be in the garden."
You say to Malzard, "I understand her point, I am just not sure I agree with her description of the result of a failed moongate."
Meyann goes southwest.
Malzard says, "By all means."
The enormous leopard growls, "so the giant intellect that is the Astral plane doesn't care if people run willy-nilly all over it"
The enormous leopard growls, "but if they mess up, it gets offended and squashes them?"
Malzard says, "Wait...I was hoping to for dropped verage..."
Malzard frowns.
Ruea says to Malzard, "Darling, that was rude."
Malzard shrugs.
You say, "Not the astral plane, Leopard, the Plane of Probability. And yes, it seems to be that take exception to us tearing certain holes."
Malzard says, "Luckily I hold no offcial capacity."
The enormous leopard growls, "i think that's what she was saying."
You say, "Or it is perhaps only that they can only get to us if the tearing is calculated wrong."
You say, "The geometry and resources of it is important."
Malzard says to you, "She had no appreciation of the one physical connection to the Plane that exists."
Malzard shakes his head.
Malzard says, "I appreciate her theories, but would prefer that they find purchase in a at least one or two facts."
You say, "Perhaps, but I think your experience has made you irritable, Magus."
Malzard says, "Speaking is giantic vaguries is quite easy."
You say, "She was open to debate."
Virr asks, "She was explaining running across Korograth, yes?"
Osus says, "Every fact started as some sort of theory, founded or unfounded."
Virr scratches his head.
Osus looks at Malzard and shrugs.
Malzard shakes his head.
Leucius says, "I thought she was fine. Granted I had no idea what she was talking about."
Leucius smiles.
You say, "She also mentioned ahead of time that she had not begun study in that area and was simply leaping off what knowledge she had."
Malzard matter-of-factly says to Virr, "I get a bit concerned when you and I see most eye to eye."
Virr stops briefly and it looks as if he is holding a serious debate in his mind. Then goes about his way as if nothing happened.
Liurilias says to you, "He's getting crotchety with age."
You say, "I cannot fault her based on this, and her original discussion on my topic was quite well done. She made very noticeable simple points that I didn’t even address, and it was my theory."
You chortle softly at some secret joke.
Malzard says to you, "You called us together to speak of extra planar life.">
Virr says, "He says you understand.”
Malzard says to you, "And some dared come prepared to speak without knowledge of the Obelisks."
You nod.
Osus asks, "The obelisks are alive?"
You say, "Well, I must admit that I, myself, have not ventured to them yet. Though I have read extensively on them."
Liurilias gives Malzard a little prod between the shoulder blades.
Malzard says, "They are the only conduit that is not a trained Moon Mage which can access such life."
Malzard says, "Or manipulate our collection connection to the Plane of Probability from which we call upon such life."
Malzard says, "One would think them a compelling artifact in such a discussion."
You say to Malzard, "She mentioned she does not believe we created them, I'm curious as to what you think."
Malzard matter-of-factly says to you, "Actually, her "obelisks are puss of the planar void" idea was the one thing I thought might have a bit of merit."
Malzard says, "Although she could not phrase it in quite that way."
Liurilias observes Malzard with fascination.
Liurilias says, "Pus again, Turbanicus, please no more, that's just gross."
Mistanna tenderly asks, "Were there any other subjects to cover?"
You ask Mistanna, "There are many subjects involving the plane that could be covered. Did you wish to bring up one in particular?"
Mistanna furrows her brow.
Mistanna nibbles her lip thoughtfully.
Malzard gazes thoughtfully at Mistanna.
Malzard matter-of-factly says to Mistanna, "I promise not to be mean, just avoid vaguries."
Mistanna tenderly says to you, "I think that I haved learned quite a lot already, I have not really even used the ways myself, yet."
Mistanna grins sheepishly.
Mistanna tenderly says, "I have tried but I cannot really come up with any questions."
You say, "If people wish to adjourn, we can do so. I could go on about many of these topics for quite some time."
Virr stops briefly and it looks as if he is holding a serious debate in his mind. Then goes about his way as if nothing happened.
You glance at Virr, a male S'Kra Mur.
Virr says to you, "He says to ask about the future."
You ask, "About Fate?"
Leucius says, "I do have a to do list awaiting."
Leucius says, "It was interesting."
Virr says, "You name it that? yes."
Virr nods to you.
Malzard nods to Leucius.
Leucius asks, "Will we be seeing more of such?"
Mistanna bobs a quick curtsy to Leucius.
Leucius nods to you.
Mistanna waves.
You say, "Likely, though of a different format I believe. Malzard clued me into an approach I'd like to attempt."
Malzard smiles slightly.
Leucius says, "Feel free to contact Mistanna here before your next."
Mistanna nods in agreement.
Leucius says, "She should be handy at getting the word out moving forward."
You say, "Excellent. Thank you, sir."
You ask Virr, "There are a lot of aspects of Fate and how it relates to us and others. Do you have a specific point you wish us to debate?"
You say to Virr, "I could anger the priests and ask if we feel the Gods created Fate, manipulate it, or are bound by it."
Liurilias raises an eyebrow.
Virr shakes his head.
Virr frowns.
Mistanna tenderly asks you, "I think perhaps, it is destiny that binds? Fate seems to have more... subtle influences?"
Mistanna tenderly says, "Always trouble when they don't agree."
Virr asks you, "Do you manipulate fate?"
You say, "Some would argue that our ties with the Web allow us to manipulate the future of both ourselves, and others."
Virr asks you, "Or do you listen to it?"
You say, "Which, from my experience, seems to be partially true. At least in my opinion."
Malzard asks, "Do we see what would be or what could be?"
Malzard gazes thoughtfully at you.
You say, "Though, allow me to state that I feel some threads of the web are tough and cannot be so easily moved."
You say to Malzard, "To be honest and brief, I would guess that the answer is.. Both."
You say, "Going back to what I previously said, some things are going to happen, perhaps a calculation of the planes themselves, some are probabilities, and we can influence them."
You say, "Thus, some strands can be manipulated, others require.. something else. Perhaps something we do not have or do not yet understand."
You say, "Or perhaps there are so many forced at work, that those strands cannot be altered."
You ask Virr, "This was your wish. Do you have something to add?"
You grin.
Virr shakes his head.
Virr says, "So many words."
Malzard says, "So we can make people what they would not be, but not what they would REALLY not be."
Malzard asks, "Where is that line in the web of fate?"
At this point most of the attendance had bounced out for the night and we went about our businesses talking about various things that were mostly unrelated.
