Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 11:56 AM CDT
Abbreviation: CO

Prerequisites: Seer's Sense, Thoughtcast

Slot Cost: 1

Type: metamagic / -

Description: This spell expands on Seer's Sense. It enhances the mental link the spell creates to the point where the caster can vaguely share the senses of the target. Specifically, it allows the caster to vicariously experience the perception of whatever mana streams the target is attuned to. This reduces the chance of sorcerous backlash when using that type of mana. In addition, the precognition granted by casting on oneself extends to the manipulation of foreign mana streams, improving your sorcery abilities. The name means "common sense." This is indicative of the sharing of perception that the spell generates, but also applies the in colloquial use of the phrase for anyone that desires a safer practice of sorcery.

Effect: +Sorcery on self-cast, decreased backlash chance with target's mana type with link cast
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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 02:21 PM CDT
I like this idea but I don't see the moon mage guild openly teaching a +sorcery spell.

I think I'd like it better as a Teleologic Sorcery or Analagous Patterns spell (or possibly even as a low sorcery scroll). Instead of decreased backlash chance across the board, a skill modifier would be better. So you'd enjoy an artificial % +sorcery skill augmentation casting that linked frequency and a % -sorcery skill penalty to any frequency aside from your native and what you've linked.

Making it +sorcery as well as diminished backlash chance overall seems like it would slot cost higher with a weaker effect than if you built in the +/- frequency modifiers and be more effective for cost if you wanted to sorcerously cast a specific frequency.



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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 03:05 PM CDT
Thanks. I see what you're saying about the open teaching being difficult for the guild politically. I'm not sure that I'd push it into the realm of a sorcery spell itself, but it could definitely be scroll only. I think they can still do that for non-sorcery spells. It could be like Glythtide's Gift. On that topic, I wonder if the public is aware that the Moon Mage guild includes skill in Sorcery for determining advancement. Maybe I'm wrong, though, and that sort of Perception enhancement/sharing is beyond what Lunar magic can do. Personally, I don't see why that would be the case.

In terms of the slot cost, I guess it could be 2 slots, for what I described. It's always hard to tell with Utility type effects, but the spell feat Sorcerous casting is 1 slot, and doesn't require the help of another PC, and is useful for all frequencies of mana simultaneously. I thought with the weight of those circumstances it didn't warrant a second slot. I wouldn't be disappointed if I were wrong on that either though, and it was 2 slots. I am curious though, why are evasion buffs still 2 slots, now that evasion is 'co-equal' with shield and parry in terms of defense?
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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 03:25 PM CDT
>why are evasion buffs still 2 slots, now that evasion is 'co-equal' with shield and parry in terms of defense?

Because evasion is a defense against all physical attacks, whereas shield and parry can be circumvented as far as checks go iirc.

>On that topic, I wonder if the public is aware that the Moon Mage guild includes skill in Sorcery for determining advancement.

No. We go to great lengths to protect our reputation. The Moon Mage guild doesn't air it's dirty laundry and it's very efficient in silencing the foolish and incompetent who fail to learn that lesson or live by it. Remember the public doesn't even know the difference between the various flavors of sorcery and to them they're all horrifying.

>I'm not sure that I'd push it into the realm of a sorcery spell itself, but it could definitely be scroll only.

If it's specifically granting a +sorcery boost I would think it would have to be sorcerous. Bards are the only guild who have +sorcery at the moment and that's only as a (questionable imo) nod to their past scroll abilities. I'm not counting ECHO, since Bard spells play a little fast and loose with the rules other guild magic follows.



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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 03:50 PM CDT
>>Because evasion is a defense against all physical attacks, whereas shield and parry can be circumvented as far as checks go iirc.

Ah. Thank you. That makes sense, now.

>>If it's specifically granting a +sorcery boost I would think it would have to be sorcerous. Bards are the only guild who have +sorcery at the moment and that's only as a (questionable imo) nod to their past scroll abilities. I'm not counting ECHO, since Bard spells play a little fast and loose with the rules other guild magic follows.

Has such a limitation been stated before? If not, would you share more on why you believe that to be the case? Moon Mages can do predictions on Sorcery skill, though, right? Is there some extra drawback (beyond the normal prediction system) to doing that?
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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 04:06 PM CDT
>Has such a limitation been stated before? If not, would you share more on why you believe that to be the case? Moon Mages can do predictions on Sorcery skill, though, right? Is there some extra drawback (beyond the normal prediction system) to doing that?

Just my feeling on the differences between prediction and spellcasting.

With prediction you're making a minor adjustment to Fate and changing the cosmological laws until the Web of Fate self-corrects and the Laws of the Plane of Abiding reassert themselves.

With sorcerous spellcasting you're attempting to use the laws of two or more frequencies concurrently and I don't see how that's possible using a single mana frequency spell pattern with sorcery lore in it's current state. If it was possible it would make the sorcery skill moot imo.



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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 05:10 PM CDT
I think I am starting to see what you're saying. Thank you for clarifying your opinion. I am not sure I share it, yet, though. Let me consider it a bit more. Here I'll share what I was thinking, as well.

>>With prediction you're making a minor adjustment to Fate and changing the cosmological laws until the Web of Fate self-corrects and the Laws of the Plane of Abiding reassert themselves.

Without getting into me or my character's worldview concerning Fate, are there not also those that believe that when they perform predictions that they are not actually changing the future, but simply viewing it? I guess that is a bit of a side discussion.

Seer's Sense is currently considered to require a connection to the Plane of Probability (e.g. it can't be used while under Sovereign Destiny). If it is already connected to Fate in this way, and Fate can improve your results with Sorcery, why impose a divide there?

>>With sorcerous spellcasting you're attempting to use the laws of two or more frequencies concurrently and I don't see how that's possible using a single mana frequency spell pattern with sorcery lore in it's current state. If it was possible it would make the sorcery skill moot imo.

More precisely you're attempting to use at least one frequency to which you are not attuned. I'm only making this distinction, because casting Uncurse or Fire Shard don't fit that definition, but do use and require the Sorcery skill. But again, this is a bit of a side discussion.

The lore reason that I am proposing for part of this "how" is that the character has connected their mind to someone else that can see and does understand the foreign mana frequency. Moon Mages already have spells that connect their minds to others, like Seer's Sense and Thoughtcast. This is in line with the "Sorcery is greedy" universal characteristic, where one "attempts to do alone with sorcery what could be done with outside help." In this case, you're partially bringing in that outside help, since you need someone attuned to that mana to use the spell in this way.
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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/07/2015 05:34 PM CDT
>are there not also those that believe that when they perform predictions that they are not actually changing the future, but simply viewing it?

There are, but if you train a skill you'll be better at it in the future than you are in the present. If you don't train that skill you won't be better at it. If prediction is merely viewing the future then how do you explain being only very momentarily more skilled and then exactly as skilled are you in the present? Or not training a skill and still being better at it when viewed?

>More precisely you're attempting to use at least one frequency to which you are not attuned. I'm only making this distinction, because casting Uncurse or Fire Shard don't fit that definition, but do use and require the Sorcery skill.

Without this getting into another nature of sorcery thread:
From https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Sorcery#Types_of_sorcery
Sorcerous casting may be as simple as a Cleric trying casting Clear Vision, but it comes with the danger of sorcerous backlash. The danger of this is that even when not attempting to do so, any attempt by a magic user to manipulate mana will either wholly or partially include their native mana as an unavoidable reflexive action. Without even intending to, the Cleric would end up funneling at least a small amount of holy mana into the Clear Vision spell, which it is not designed to handle, and occasionally result in catastrophic results.

So yes, casting Uncurse will require blindly manipulating Holy mana along with your native, inadvertent use of lunar.

Anyway I like your spell idea. I don't see them making sorcery easier for any of us since they've said as much but I like the idea of the sorcerous version of an Empathic Deep Link.



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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/08/2015 10:48 AM CDT


>I don't see them making sorcery easier for any of us since they've said as much

Except...you know, the true scions of the Wizard Kings of old, bards.
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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/09/2015 06:07 PM CDT
As long as it was themed along lines of "Helping you use other guilds spells" (much like the Bard one is) vs "High/Low Sorcery" conceptually that's a place Moon Mages could play in conceptually. What it actually got used for would be another matter entirely...

Let me muse on it for awhile. I'm not a fan of this particular proposal, nor of a straight up "+sorcery" spell but if there was a spell compelling enough to develop that also included a +sorcery effect, that is the most viable route for Moon Mages to get +sorcery.

-Raesh

"The trouble with atheism, is that it offers a limited range of curses.” - Two Serpents Rise
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Re: Suggestion: Coenaesthesia 08/09/2015 09:01 PM CDT


>> I'm not a fan of this particular proposal, nor of a straight up "+sorcery" spell but if there was a spell compelling enough to develop that also included a +sorcery effect

One that attenuated life/elemental so that they operated in the same frequency as holy?
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