Training Astrology 06/18/2015 06:32 PM CDT

I have just returned back to Moon Mage and have been loving everything about them outside of some struggles with Astrology. Below is what I know (or think I know) about training astrology and I'm hoping for any assistance with what I have missed or perhaps have misunderstood. For reference, my moon mage's astrology is 169 (all gained prior to 3.0).

What I think I Know:

- Using PG, AUS and CV before observations increases success chance
- Using a Telescope increases success chance of an observation
- Filling a pool before predicting increases experience gained dramatically
- Observing teaches very little, but of course is required
- Predicting weather teaches very little and may not be worth it at my skill.
- Predict event teaches very little and may not be worth it at my skill.
- Predict Analyze should be used every opportunity possible while a prediction is up (~100 second timer)

What I am unsure of:

- Does using tools increase experience gained?
- If so, does using tools your sect has an affinity towards also increase experience gained?
- Does using a telescope for observation assist with experience?
- Does using PG, AUS, and CV before observation increase experience?

My current routine assuming no prior predictions up:

1 Buff up with spells
2 Observe sky to determine moon or constellation available aiming for those that will be available longest
3 Observe said moon or constellation
4 Wait for "You have sufficiently pondered
5 Perform first prediction (I do this to start something in the pool so the skill is not sitting at clear the entire process)
6 Predict analyze
7 Begin process of repeating observing the moon or constellation between "You have sufficiently pondered" messages and predict analyzing every 105 seconds until skill pool fills.
8 Perform full prediction
9 Predict Analyze
10 Repeat from step 7

In my current process I am finding astrology to take exponentially longer than it takes me to lock summoning (3-5 min at 300 ranks) on my war mage and while I'm confident that is by design, I want to ensure I am not missing the obvious.

Thanks for any and all feedback!

- Yan
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Re: Training Astrology 06/18/2015 06:39 PM CDT
>>Filling a pool before predicting increases experience gained dramatically

I don't enough to answer most of your questions, but while this is true, predicting on multiple less filled pools will lock you quicker.
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Re: Training Astrology 06/18/2015 06:41 PM CDT
>>I don't enough to answer most of your questions, but while this is true, predicting on multiple less filled pools will lock you quicker.

I've been toying with that today and finding that at the least, Weak and Feeble do not appear to make it worth it. But perhaps there is a middle ground.
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Re: Training Astrology 06/18/2015 06:58 PM CDT
>>Weak and Feeble do not appear to make it worth it. But perhaps there is a middle ground.

Yea, I believe you need a bit more in your pools, not sure how much since my MM is fairly small. Even Raesh has said it's more efficient to predict future on multiple smaller pools than to wait for one full one.
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Re: Training Astrology 06/18/2015 07:07 PM CDT
"decent understanding" took me up 9 mind states. That looks like it will be faster, and perhaps coupled with other suggestions may be a great solution.

Thanks, for the feedback!
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Re: Training Astrology 06/18/2015 07:40 PM CDT
<< Filling a pool before predicting increases experience gained dramatically

Yes, and no. The experience earned from a full pool is one very large chunk. That said, however, the experience you earn is linear based on how full the pool is, so the amount earned is exactly the same as if you had predicted after every observation (although you actually do lose a little bit due to the loss of the overflow from the observation that puts you at a full pool.) The advantage of using a full pool is that it greatly increases the effect of the prediction itself, and in the case of using a tool, the chance of the tool bonding to you. The reason why most people suggest using a full prediction pool to train astrology with is that it kills two birds with one stone: tool bonding and astrology training.

<<- Does using tools increase experience gained?
<<- If so, does using tools your sect has an affinity towards also increase experience gained?

Using a tool eliminates the critical fail stuns that visions have. Since this event empties all your pools, that will result in effectively less experience for the same time spent. This has the potential for significant loss of experience over time since you could potentially lose a lot of observations.

<<- Does using a telescope for observation assist with experience?

A telescope assists in piercing cloud cover very slightly which will reduce the penalty to observation strength which in turn will reduce experience earned over time... but this is an extremely, extremely negligible amount. Not worth worrying about. Right now their only real purpose is to observe/study constellations that require them.

<<- Does using PG, AUS, and CV before observation increase experience?

PG - see telescope above but also add allowing you to observe through full cloud cover. Necessary when necessary, but not a large impact on experience earned by any stretch of the imagination. CV aids in getting a successful observation, but doesn't increase the size of it so once you can successfully observe/study something most of the time it is fairly meaningless. AUS does increase the size of the observation, which in turn will increase experience over time but this is again a highly negligible amount.

The best way by far to increase your experience is to use multi-pool constellations. The more pools the constellation has, the more experience you will earn by a very significant margin. It boils down to the fact that while there is variation in size for how much a pool is filled from one observation to the next, the variation is quite small even at the widest difference. E.g. if a single pool constellation observation might teach from 2 to 3 mind states depending on all the possible factors, so min/maxing all the possible boosts to observation size will at most get you a single extra mind state depending on where in the range you started. By comparison, simply choosing a constellation with 3 observation pools will net you at least 6 mind states even if you don't do anything to try and improve things, and up to 9 depending on the various factors. (Made up numbers, but the scale of the difference is accurate.)

tl/dr: Don't worry about min-maxing prediction strengths, but rather utilize the constellations with the most number of associated pools. Cast PG/CV/AUS since they do help, but don't worry if you don't have them up unless you need them, since your experience isn't going to be affected much at all. E.g. cloud cover, or are still low circle and need the boost to observe success.



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Re: Training Astrology 06/18/2015 08:06 PM CDT
>>The best way by far to increase your experience is to use multi-pool constellations. The more pools the constellation has, the more experience you will earn by a very significant margin. It boils down to the fact that while there is variation in size for how much a pool is filled from one observation to the next, the variation is quite small even at the widest difference. E.g. if a single pool constellation observation might teach from 2 to 3 mind states depending on all the possible factors, so min/maxing all the possible boosts to observation size will at most get you a single extra mind state depending on where in the range you started. By comparison, simply choosing a constellation with 3 observation pools will net you at least 6 mind states even if you don't do anything to try and improve things, and up to 9 depending on the various factors. (Made up numbers, but the scale of the difference is accurate.)


This is huge and exactly the type of detail I was worried I missed. Thank you for your detailed response!
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Re: Training Astrology 06/19/2015 12:57 AM CDT
> 4 Wait for "You have sufficiently pondered
> 5 Perform first prediction (I do this to start something in the pool so the skill is not sitting at clear the entire process)
> 6 Predict analyze

There's no reason you need to do these steps in this order. You can do the first prediction immediately after the first observation.
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Re: Training Astrology 06/20/2015 09:13 PM CDT


Another reason for doing predictions after 1 observation is they are SHORT. This means the random debuffs that you will certainly get, will wear off faster. If you wait until full observation pools and predict on stealth, but somehow misses and ends up on, lets say... evasion and curses you, you can be stuck with 2+ hours of a negative debuff. Multiply this by 4 observation pools and you can really hurt yourself.

Also, predict analyze teachers better with more predictions. So 1 pool predictions will rack up the predictions for predict analyze much faster.

I always use the constellation with the highest # pools available.
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Re: Training Astrology 06/20/2015 09:28 PM CDT
With starting to observe multiple pool filling constellations I was able to dramatically improve learning.

I also setup a global variable (Genie3) for when observation was ready again and used triggers on observation and when I had fully pondered the last observation to keep it accurate. Using the variable I am now able to mix in observations with all other actions much more easily.

Before I could barely keep astrology moving, now it's locked and my pools are sitting at:

You consider your recent observations:
You have no understanding of the celestial influences over magic.
You have a complete understanding of the celestial influences over lore.
You have a modest understanding of the celestial influences over offensive combat.
You have a complete understanding of the celestial influences over defensive combat.
You have a weak understanding of the celestial influences over survival.
You have no understanding of the celestial influences over future events.


Thanks again for all the advice.
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