Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 07:17 PM CDT
He guys, I have a few topics I wanted to touch on and this seemed like the best place for it, being my chosen guild for this latest venture.

1. Story has always been important to me, but I feel that TF taught me how to play. From a purely technical standpoint, how are the Moonies doing right now? Are optimistic about the future? Gutted by Magic 3.0? Has the shift made the game less enjoyable for you?

2. I don't like to play friendly characters, because in all honesty I'm not that great at RP longevity. In my endeavor to misbehave, is Moon Mage going to be a challenge for me? I don't mean this to be a 'pick my guild' question, but more along the lines of 'how confident are you in the guild's prowess as a whole?'

3. I've missed a lot, and while I've been doing my due diligence, stats seem to be something that people hold widely differing opinions on. As a starting character, should I be focused on combats from the starting gate? Is training out of combat even still viable with the skill conversions? (I'm looking at you, tactics.) Is training Intel/Wisdom for enhanced learning capabilities with the idea of backtraining quickly at a later date misguided?

4. In terms of combat, what are you using for weapons and armor and why? I've always been partial to small, fast weapons, but nothing clears a room quite like a war mattock.

5. I'm going to ask it - what's the deal with our enchanting now? Is that a skill that will simply be open to everyone or will we be better at it? Is the Enchanting skill going to be arriving any time soon or am I going to become REALLY good at playing the bag pipes?



<<Context: I'm a lifer, though I've been gone for a while. I played primarily in prime, moved to TF for a while, then quit. I've played Thief, Paladin, Empath, Necromancer, and Barbarian of various circles (40's -130's), but have decided to start fresh.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 07:26 PM CDT
>>5. I'm going to ask it - what's the deal with our enchanting now? Is that a skill that will simply be open to everyone or will we be better at it? Is the Enchanting skill going to be arriving any time soon or am I going to become REALLY good at playing the bag pipes?

Enchanting as Moon Mages know it is going away.

Moon Mages will maintain exclusive access to a few items (list still getting sorted out) in the new system, bearing in mind we intend most if not every guild to eventually have exclusive enchantments.

The vast majority of the new enchanting system is open to all and Moon Mages will only be special in it insofar as they have guild picks for it and may be getting an +Enchanting skill buff.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 09:01 PM CDT
<<1. Story has always been important to me, but I feel that TF taught me how to play. From a purely technical standpoint, how are the Moonies doing right now? Are optimistic about the future? Gutted by Magic 3.0? Has the shift made the game less enjoyable for you?>>

MMs are awesome, from the technical and RP/lore sides. They're extremely versatile and in terms of travel utility, there's no one better. Magic 3.0 gutted all TM-using characters (with the exception of a few spells, SLS, blufmor garaen, a couple cleric spells, etc), but 3.1 TM is miles better. Soon.

<<2. I don't like to play friendly characters, because in all honesty I'm not that great at RP longevity. In my endeavor to misbehave, is Moon Mage going to be a challenge for me? I don't mean this to be a 'pick my guild' question, but more along the lines of 'how confident are you in the guild's prowess as a whole?'>>

MMs are actually exceptionally well-positioned to be unfriendly characters because of locate, contingency, and the Ways/teleport. It's very easy to escape situations that escalate, if that's your cup of tea. If you mean, can a well-trained MM throw down with the best of them if you want to stay and fight? Yes.

<<3. I've missed a lot, and while I've been doing my due diligence, stats seem to be something that people hold widely differing opinions on. As a starting character, should I be focused on combats from the starting gate? Is training out of combat even still viable with the skill conversions? (I'm looking at you, tactics.) Is training Intel/Wisdom for enhanced learning capabilities with the idea of backtraining quickly at a later date misguided?>>

I strongly suggest focusing on physical stats early to allow you to climb through the early critter hunting ladder as efficiently and safely as possible. If possible, as a MM, gather your first 10 or so circles (at least) then jump into combat and rework the ordering of your survivals etc. Let evasion pass outdoorsmanship etc. Mentals are over-rated early because agility and reflex (particularly agility since as a weapon tert, you want every edge you can jumping up the critter ladder) will help you move up the critter ladder faster, and moving up the critter ladder a step is better for your learning than staying where you were with slightly higher mentals. Once you can hunt comfortably, I'd start bringing mentals up to par. That's general advice; I don't mean that you should ignore mentals entirely, just that you should prioritize agility and reflex.

<<4. In terms of combat, what are you using for weapons and armor and why? I've always been partial to small, fast weapons, but nothing clears a room quite like a war mattock.>>

I use 2HE, 2HB, crossbow, and brawling. I wish I would have also trained LT or HT, but other than that, I wouldn't trade them for the smaller weapons. Right now, with balance as it stands (a very underwhelming stat), I think bigger weapons carry a pretty substantial edge as you progress later into the game. That said, train what you want. Your extended interest in the character is the more important part imo. As a MM with shadow servant, it's very easy to train lots more weapons if you want.

<<5. I'm going to ask it - what's the deal with our enchanting now? Is that a skill that will simply be open to everyone or will we be better at it? Is the Enchanting skill going to be arriving any time soon or am I going to become REALLY good at playing the bag pipes?>>

Enchanting will be fine, but it won't be a MM only thing (with exceptions noted by Armifer).
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 09:04 PM CDT
>>The vast majority of the new enchanting system is open to all and Moon Mages will only be special in it insofar as they have guild picks for it and may be getting an +Enchanting skill buff.

I can confirm this. The spell is actually mostly finished (It's on my QC plate - I didn't write it) but we're planning to hold the release off until enchanting comes out. It boosts Arcana too for what that's worth.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 09:32 PM CDT
Yeah. I remembered the spell, but wanted to hedge my words until Kodius came on and I could confirm with him that this is something we could do without GM on GM gladiatorial combat.

He did. It is. Enchanting buff for MMs woo.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 09:51 PM CDT
All very interesting things, I'm looking forward to getting started here. Thanks for the responses.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/23/2014 10:47 PM CDT
<<He did. It is. Enchanting buff for MMs woo.>>

Very awesome, and from what he's been explaining the Lore folder on it, I'm very much looking forward to (hah!) a mechanical lore angle in the game. I'm looking forward to engineering expansion too. Cool stuff.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 01:52 AM CDT
Oh, before anyone asks, yes - you will be able to cast the enchanting buff on others. I (believe) that's going to be standard for crafting buffs (Except REI because the necromancer rule of never buffing anther player overrules it). It's called Artificer's Eye and requires AUS or PG.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 02:13 AM CDT
>He did. It is. Enchanting buff for MMs woo.

+20 Ranks Enchanting on my 700+ Mech MM.

woo.

Let me know when craft buffs are unnerfed and work.

Lyzalian Farscribe

"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 07:43 AM CDT
Are you seriously already finding a way to be snarky about an unreleased spell on an unreleased system? Is the quote in your signature meant to be ironic?

I'm not even a developer and the level of snarl/negativity on the boards lately depresses me.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 09:15 AM CDT
>>Are you seriously already finding a way to be snarky about an unreleased spell on an unreleased system?

Given that in 3.0, buffs across guilds are supposed to be identical, (SOI is all that matters) and WotM is already out there, and has been tested with I don't think it's unfounded.

A 100 mana cast of the spell resulted in a 1 point improvement in crafting. I'm not sure that it was exhaustive testing, but I'd imagine that's within the RNG variance.


TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 09:47 AM CDT
I generally don't bother addressing whining on the boards, but in this case it was a particularly funny response to new development to me, considering the poster's signature.

Carry on.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 11:31 AM CDT
>>Given that in 3.0, buffs across guilds are supposed to be identical, (SOI is all that matters) and WotM is already out there, and has been tested with I don't think it's unfounded.

Given that how buff caps work are dramatically changing between 3.0 and 3.1...

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 02:05 PM CDT
> Given that how buff caps work are dramatically changing between 3.0 and 3.1...

Can you talk about how crafting skill buffs work in 3.1?
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 04:31 PM CDT

>GM on GM gladiatorial combat
Can we see this anyway? It sounds fun.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 06:37 PM CDT
>Are you seriously already finding a way to be snarky about an unreleased spell on an unreleased system?

No. Because of considerable whining (not on my part), back in early December, Kodius changed WotM to be 1/5 as effective as other buff spells (that is, a 20 rank hardcap), and it was my impression that that was what ALL crafting buffs are going to be capped at.

>Is the quote in your signature meant to be ironic?

Not really, no. My displeasure at how crafting has evolved is based on four things.

1. That the systems are imbalanced, which is partly a factor of their time developed/released.
2. That the crafting system is supposed to improve the lot of the Lore Prime guilds (a stance I have disagreed with for years, almost since the new crafting system was planned out)
3. That the GMs are running into system limitations that make crafting not as vibrant as it could be.

I can't fault the GMs, they're trying.

>A 100 mana cast of the spell resulted in a 1 point improvement in crafting

When I tested it, a 40ish mana cast resulted in a 1 point DECREASE, which I attributed to having to use a non-mastercrafted tool (non-craftable bellows) more than once.

That is, an entirely negligible effect. Granted, that was before the latest change AFAIK back in Dec, and I'd agree that a 20 rank increase is probably something like a 1 point improvement at the level I work at, and probably the level the tester worked at (I'd guess in the 800+ range).

>>Given that how buff caps work are dramatically changing between 3.0 and 3.1...
>Can you talk about how crafting skill buffs work in 3.1?

Yes, please. If the 1/5th effectiveness is going away, then disregard my snark.

Kaeta Airtag

"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 08:11 PM CDT
>> 4. In terms of combat, what are you using for weapons and armor and why? I've always been partial to small, fast weapons, but nothing clears a room quite like a war mattock.

Cloth armor is currently the best in my opinion, but only if you get the good stuff. It gives good defenses and lets you use your evasion, which is your best defensive stat.

If I were to only train 3 weapons, I would do SE, 2HB, and LT. Small Edged is fast and it will do good damage, but I don't think it matches up well against heavy armored foes. I would train 2HB when I need to pull out a nice hard hitting weapon. I would train LT before HT because LT is more diverse.
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/24/2014 08:14 PM CDT
I can't talk about the crafting specific limitations because I'm not involved in crafting enough to speak to it with confidence. But the fact that we're going to a % cap instead of a rank cap across the board is enough to invalidate the claims right there.

Bottom line though is this isn't a Moon Mage issue, it's a crafting one and the discussion should take place over there. It's far more likely to be addressed by one of the GMs who can speak directly to it.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/25/2014 01:44 AM CDT
I have no comment about the enchanting buff... except for it's name.

For my sanity, I don't suppose I could request a different name for it? Artificer's Eye is already part of the history as the precursor to Piercing Gaze.



Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/25/2014 02:55 AM CDT
>>For my sanity, I don't suppose I could request a different name for it? Artificer's Eye is already part of the history as the precursor to Piercing Gaze.

Yes. Yes it is.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/25/2014 03:10 AM CDT
>Yes. Yes it is.

Oh good. I thought it was a coincidence, but if you have it all worked out, that's a relief.



Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/26/2014 12:13 PM CDT
>>1. That the systems are imbalanced, which is partly a factor of their time developed/released.
>>2. That the crafting system is supposed to improve the lot of the Lore Prime guilds (a stance I have disagreed with for years, almost since the new crafting >>system was planned out)
>>3. That the GMs are running into system limitations that make crafting not as vibrant as it could be.

Were you happier with Old Crafting?




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/26/2014 12:25 PM CDT
>>+20 Ranks Enchanting on my 700+ Mech MM.

That statement is completely incorrect. When I used it in 3.1 with a copy of you, I received a 70 rank bonus. Now you may feel 10% is too low. But consider that old crafting did not allow any buffs at all. Also consider that Crafting is not related in any way to the other games' systems, and a 10% buff may be appropriate given its unique design.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/26/2014 12:42 PM CDT
Is the 3.1 formula for capped crafting buff: 10% in sphere / 7.5% out of sphere? Or is it more complex than that?
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/26/2014 03:42 PM CDT
That sounds right.



"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/26/2014 08:53 PM CDT
>Were you happier with Old Crafting?

Every point I raised is even more applicable with Old Crafting than New, so no. On top of Lore Primes not even HAVING crafting, at all.

Obviously something new I CAN do is better than something I couldn't do at all.

>>>+20 Ranks Enchanting on my 700+ Mech MM.
>When I used it in 3.1 with a copy of you, I received a 70 rank bonus. Now you may feel 10% is too low.

No, 10% sounds fine with me.

Lyzalian Farscribe

"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
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Re: Core Guild Concepts 04/29/2014 01:21 PM CDT
>If I were to only train 3 weapons, I would do SE, 2HB, and LT. Small Edged is fast and it will do good damage, but I don't think it matches up well against heavy armored foes. I would train 2HB when I need to pull out a nice hard hitting weapon. I would train LT before HT because LT is more diverse.

I'd highly recommend also training an aimed mundane weapon if you plan to ever PvP. It'll give you a better chance against clerics, who can debuff your mundane melee/thrown weapon stats, make them stick to your hand and keep you at missile for the majority/entirety of the fight. They also have amazing anti-magic/anti-TM tools. CoZ doesn't affect bows/crossbows/sling IIRC.

I'm a fan of crossbows with offhand throws. I regret neglecting it in 2.0 when it was painfully slow to train.

>GM on GM gladiatorial combat
>>Can we see this anyway? It sounds fun.

Paid quest?
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