Whats the point of having restrictions on spells when they are less effective than spells without any restrictions? I thought debilitation was our wheelhouse instead of TM? I mean now that there is a basic debilitation that sets the bar so high...I can't imagine how were left with a basic spell that has limitations on use but has no power gain for it.

I would enjoy seeing more power on moon mage spells that have restrictions. The point of restrictions is that those spells should be more powerful when you can use them, or they are empowered by two or three moons up. Or is it really just a restriction for no gain over guilds without them? There used to be bite to our magic when I joined the guild. Now our spells are equal to or less than other guilds but we have the restrictions still.

Now that war mages have a basic debilitation that causes immobilize and prone, i'm left asking why were left with a basic debilitation that requires moon in sky or daytime...and yet does less? I mean what is the point when you need two moons to get the "power increase" but its not going to be noticeable what that effect even is?


"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"

>All valid points and warmages, clerics, and rangers are now all better at cursing than moonmages via anther's call, malediction, and curse of the wild. In short, I know I sound like a broken record, but train sorcery.

There's a difference between debuffs ("curses") like -evasion and status effect like immobilized, and I think Aerathor's mostly talking about status effects.

Curse of the Wild and Anther's Call are not better than the suite of MM curses options available through Teleological sorcery (Malediction is better because of an AOE metaspell that makes hunting safer). They all kind of suck, IMO. Many status effects are like curses (-defense) but also do things like possibly interrupt spell preps or prevent attacks, so there aren't going to be many circumstances where using a -evasion spell is better than a stunning spell.

As someone who's played a ranger to 70, they could give MMs a new spell called Curse of the Moons tomorrows and you wouldn't use it any more than you use Dazzle now.

>>Make the stun an immobilize. The AOE nerve damage combined with an immobilize would make it the most powerful cyclic in the game.

As awesome as that sounds my point is that for all the limitations placed on Lunar magic, it does equal to or less than other guilds magic. I want to see spells with requirements on moons up or daylight or nighttime having more power than spells that have no such limitations.

Dazzle should do more than spells that have similar cost and skill requirements and no restrictions. Its rather simple. Otherwise its just stupid old mechanic that is left from when it did eye damage and blew up lodged steelstars. You had to limit the power then. Burn and COL remain the only spell in the book with a restriction that is worth it for the power the spell offers. Death from above and a Solid versatile ward seem worth a limit on use.

And i'm not talking about teleportation or moon-gates. Those obviously require moons up. But what does Dazzle or SLS do that other spells cannot? What is the point of limiting the use on them with their current power levels? The answer is that those spells perform equal or even less than other spells that have nothing barring their use. Its just absurd to keep onto the old mechanic without being true to why its there. We need to see some life pumped into the spells with limits or simply remove the limits.

Meanwhile it makes sense for necromancers to have some limits after all they have self res, self healing, magical sniping, several variety of combat pets and an equal amount of utility a moon mage has from invisibility to reactive wards. And they are secondary magic. But what is the reason of making moon mages average magic even though were primary and have restrictions?

"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"

> As awesome as that sounds my point is that for all the limitations placed on Lunar magic, it does equal to or less than other guilds magic. I want to see spells with requirements on moons up or daylight or nighttime having more power than spells that have no such limitations.

I'm not disagreeing. I have long felt that moon mages should be normal mages that use the moons to become more powerful, excluding lunar mage. I agree that currently it's not a very appealing guild to play due to working around the limitations rather than feeling like you have a power boost when the moons align (pun intended).

For mind shout, I thought you could cast this like a normal spell or target a moonbeam. So it is (or should be?) castable without moons where you are.

> And i'm not talking about teleportation or moon-gates. Those obviously require moons up.

Astral travel does not. Neither does the 100th circle ability. I can't recall off-hand if RS does.

> necromancers to have some limits

They have FAR more than "some" limits.

> But what does Dazzle or SLS do that other spells cannot?

I agree. I still thing moon mages should be able to chip off a portion of a Grazhir shard to power their spells or something. They're already penalized on mana, and you could further modify spells in the same way that elemental spells used to be modified by atmospherics, but rising mists doesn't require a body of water nearby. I feel like it should be the same for moon mages. The moon requirement should be trained away as it's really more hassle than flavor at this point.

> Burn and COL remain the only spell in the book with a restriction that is worth it for the power the spell offers. Death from above and a Solid versatile ward seem worth a limit on use.

I kind of disagree. LB and CL don't require a storm to function. ES doesn't fail even if you have a -5 on Aether in the room.

> Its just absurd to keep onto the old mechanic without being true to why its there.

Again, I'm in full agreement. The old burn was insanely powerful, and I don't think it even used TM as the primary part of it's damage calculation. Especially when combined with the old MB.

> magical sniping,

Really not as cool as it sounds. I may have not been using it correctly on my necro, but I couldn't get this to do more damage than a real spell.

I think Dazzle should do something closer to blinding than just a stun that messaged as you can't see. Make it actually lower a targets perception for a good duration as well as -defensive factor instead a few seconds round time of stun.

Make SLS work during daytime if you maintain the cycle you began during night. Or make this spell something special. Either through it negating wards in a way, or perhaps pulsing immobilize randomly freezing its target in place on crits. Or make it bypass percentage of armor, or able to do something special that is thematic for cold damage. I mean the spell is from a quest, requires a ton of ranks to cap and has night only time barrier...this spell needs more.



"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"

>And yeah lets argue a hypothetical spell that nobody knows what it does or has heard of is not going to be better than dazzle or used more...I think you'd be spot on.

He said rangers and warrior mages are better than Moon Mages at curses because of Curse of the Wilds and the new Anther's call. I was saying no, actually, all curses suck, and I was using Curse of the Wilds as an example. If you just gave Moon Mages a direct copy of Anther's Call no one would use it, because all curses suck compared to status effects like stun. The problem is bigger than just fixing one or two specific spells.

>His point was totally different. He wasn't asking for a new spell or either was I. He was asking for Curses to be fixed so they can actually work past -10 ranks. I was talking about making Dazzle worthwhile along with other spells in the book with limits on use.

Cast a curse on a PC target so they can use expmods, a penalty at good success is about as strong as a buff, it goes way beyond -10 ranks.

>I think Dazzle should do something closer to blinding than just a stun that messaged as you can't see. Make it actually lower a targets perception for a good duration as well as -defensive factor instead a few seconds round time of stun.

Why not both? That sounds like a good idea for a totally new spell. I agree MMs could use a wider arsenal of debuffs and status effects.

>>Why not both? That sounds like a good idea for a totally new spell. I agree MMs could use a wider arsenal of debuffs and status effects.

I think just making dazzle into a -perception and - defensive factor while switching Calm to be a plain immobilize to fill in gap as a basic debilitation will be a solid move in the right direction.

Calm is totally pointless at this point other than a req spell. And dazzle needs to be changed into a spell that does something more akin to a real blind and be worthy of having a limitation on its use.

>>Cast a curse on a PC target so they can use expmods, a penalty at good success is about as strong as a buff, it goes way beyond -10 ranks.

>>I attempted to curse a person who has 400 ranks in a skill.

Also i'm sure that curses cap at -10 regardless of ranks on person predicting or the person being targeted with the curse. I tested it tonight just to be sure. If we get our prediction system to effectively curse then we won't need to add a bunch of spells to curse stats.

"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"