Targets Circle: 10
Target's evasion: 36
Target's shield: 28
Target's reflex: 14

casters TM 810
casters disc 99


100 mana fully targeted cast

You gesture at Keroo.
You deftly contribute enough of your harnessed streams to maximize the pattern's potential.
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and flies toward Keroo!
The ebony sliver is partially blocked as it glances off his crocodile-skin buckler.
The ebony sliver lands a good strike (3/22) to his abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and flies toward Keroo!
The ebony sliver is partially blocked as it glances off his crocodile-skin buckler.
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit (4/22) to his right leg!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and flies toward Keroo!
The ebony sliver is partially blocked as it glances off his crocodile-skin buckler.
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit (4/22) to his head!
Keroo is lightly stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and flies toward Keroo!
The ebony sliver is partially blocked as it glances off his crocodile-skin buckler.
The ebony sliver lands a hard hit (5/22) to his right hand!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and flies toward Keroo!
The ebony sliver is partially blocked as it glances off his crocodile-skin buckler.
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit (4/22) to his abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!

Roundtime: 1 sec.

Vitality left 48%

How the crap?

-Serc

""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.

Should that be "It does now." ?

---

TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh

Ugh. Spells aren't going through the overkill mechanics?

>> I one shot him with my weapons just fine every time. Is this rarefied one shot specific to multicast spells? spells in general?

Probably related to overkill mechanics for weapons, which does not seem to be in place for TM spells.

TM is tricky. If targeted magic is as good as a weapon, then being weapon tertiary has little impact on us because our primary weapon (tm) learns at a primary rate. I would prefer target magic to be a tertiary skill and make tm as effective as weapons. With that said, I know that will never happen.

In my opinion, weapons are better than TM in every way except for AOE and DFA options, both of which can (and have been, for DFA) addressed in their own right without establishing some general "TM must suck at damage" default. To my knowledge, there are no abilities in the game that completely prevent your weapon using ability. Counters/limitations/barriers to TM are legion. Didn't Armifer say they're tweaking things to a level field before considering more global adjustments? I'll hang my hat on that process.

> As to why its not a valid reason, swap weapon and magic around and replace the implied magic user with barbarian and make the statement again to see if it makes any sense.

"Dances and berserks are tricky. If they're as good as spell buffs, then being magic tertiary has little impact on us, because our primary buffs (IF) learn at a primary rate. I would prefer IF to be a tertiary skill and make dances and berserks as effective as spell buffs."

Looks like good reasoning to me. Using your primary skillset to replace a tert or secondary skillset is a valid concern. It's why Barbarians and Thieves are moving onto the magic system. Making TM tert is a solution, but certainly not the only solution; my preference would be for adding enough differences in application that TM's not a simple replacement for a weapon. Non-trivial mana costs is a good part of that.

Traim,
could you expand on your reasoning? for some reason, it's just not clicking with me. i guess i tend to look at just like illiena's response on barbarian's and their inner fire.

I guess for me it's just that making target magic learn at a slower rate but be equivalent to weapon ranks is more honest. 1100 ranks in target magic does not equal 1100 ranks in a weapon. It's just easier to evaluate your offensive prowess if 1100 ranks meant 1100 ranks. Right now I would roughly guess that 1100 ranks in TM is equivalent to 800 ranks of HE (with the emphasis on roughly).

As someone who primarily plays a non-magic user, don't see why TM damage should not be roughly comparable to weapon damage. Skillset placement shouldn't factor into this equation. TM has wonderful benefits that weapons generally lack (multi-shot, AOE, DFA, choosing damage types) but is also restricted by additional measures like magic resistance (of some critters), barrier spells and mana.

TM damage is low across the board right now, I think that's universally accepted.

>>"Dances and berserks are tricky. If they're as good as spell buffs, then being magic tertiary has little impact on us, because our primary buffs (IF) learn at a primary rate. I would prefer IF to be a tertiary skill and make dances and berserks as effective as spell buffs."

Your misunderstanding whats going on in this quote, that or your understanding it perfectly and applying it to a completely different concept.

A more proper way of what is happening there would be if Astrology allowed us to wear arm-worn large shields.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga

The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.

Has anyone tried strange arrow yet? I tried sparring someone, and I couldn't hurt them at all. None of the spells would really hurt. This is of course he was fully buffed. We were on equal ground if anything. He owned me fairly decent once he got pass my shear juggling. I throw 100 mana in TKT, PD, DO, and burn. I never used SLS because it was day light. Couldn't do a dent. Several casts. I noticed I cast Strange arrow, and it seemed to be fairly nice. Wondered if anyone has had any luck with strange arrow. Yes I know if we just wait, our magic will come be worked out. Not a complaint, just looking for an alternate damaging spell that we have access to that doesn't hit like a nerf gun currently.

I hadn't had the time to test strange arrow yet, but that was my theory was it was stronger than our other tm spells. Aside from SLS. SLS is probably to powerful, but I am not complaining. Hate to see it tweaked before the others are.

Mmm. Why can't be control the weather again? Oh ya, Warmages might cry.

STRA isn't any stronger, but it is doing a damage type that Moon Mages currently have no other access to (Electricity).



are there any plans to beef up MM tm spell damage or we just stuck with a spell that is only castable half the time?
and if we're to rely on it any chance of a sunlight sphere? i mean we can harness the powers of the celestrial bodies so why not?

DO - All the time. not on scale with tm and lunar magic for damage
TKT - All the time. multistrike still doing weak damage
TKS - All the time. aoe does weak damage
Burn - Most of the time. not on scale with tm and lunar magic for damage
PD - All the time. not on scale with tm and lunar magic for damage
SLS - Night only. only tm spell worth it atm through testing. this spell rocks and is only at night.



if it's not night time i usually don't even bother hunting unless i've still got sls up from previous night.
the other spells we have are a joke damagewise.
with a fully prepped tks at 30 mana i get 2/34 to 4/34 strikes
same with tkt fully prepped and targeted.
burn produces unsightly scratches the first couple casts (if it hits) 20 mana full prep and target.
pd... i casted it a couple times and it's damage is worse then burn.
do would be second to sls as far as damage goes from testing but it's still no where near as good as sls imo.
going to get with Funk sometime and see if he's had better results on the opposite end of the skill spectrum.

well...that...explains alot. /facepalm

<<That's a lot more than one spell only usable half the time. Otherwise all MM TM spells go through the same core mechanics as <<every other TM spell, anything that changes the core will change them.

Except that it is our only TM cyclic. I don't see empaths having to limit when they can use their warrior or warmies having to worry about when ring of spears/fire rain/etc are "good to go." They just put the spell up and go. Given the amount of feedback across the board about how all players want this spell to be castable "whenever" I don't understand your reluctance. If we are using the same core mechanics as a Guardian Spirit, ring of spears, etc...then how is it NOT unbalanced that we can only cast this spell half the time?

Honestly our TM spells are so broken right now I don't even use them in combat anymore... and that is sad.

I haven't tested critter combat. I did use TKS during an invasion in shard that I just stumbled upon, and I really loved it. Against players on the other hand. Our magic is bad outside of SLS. SLS probably needs a slight nerf, but I haven't really tested it to know how much. PD was really weak in test, and sometime in prime it seemed okay and now it is bad again. This is all before the tweaking that suppose to allow mentals help with TM. I still haven't tested it yet since then. I do believe everything will get better in time. We just have to be patient. The GMs clearly know our problems and issues, but they can't adjust all targeted spells up until they make sure all the spells are acting as they suppose to be on the global scale. I know the big issue they trying to solve is multi shot spells. I play several guilds, and they all have spells that are more powerful than others are. Sadly we got the short end of the stick currently as far as that goes. But vs creatures, I don't see a huge problem, but again I haven't really tested it.

I do agree with you that it should be more powerful than normal spells since it is restricted 50% of the time. Compared to our normal spells, and sls, I think its to much more powerful. Say they keep it the way it is, and then they go to global TM toggle, and up damage on all tm, sls will just get stronger, and therefor complained about, and therefor they may town global down again. I haven't tested as much as I could, but folks with 450 in defensives, vs my 450 tm, SLS seems to stun them first hit, and just plows them fairly fast. I love it. Based on what I can do with my TM spells, casting full prep, with more mana, it certainly a bit more powerful. I only said slight, I don't think it needs a huge downtweak. I assume it might be a global adjustment on all cyclic tm spells.