Let's start by saying Moonmages are my favorite guild conceptually. However, where do we fit in? First, being weapon and armor tert is an enormous drawback. I think people forget this. So I would guess that we would be compensated somewhere. I thought moon mages were the king of disabling, but to me it seems that most other guilds are better at this than we are, including non-magic using guilds. Target magic has been weak for ages. So my question is, does anyone who plays a moonmage actually think that it is viable to play a moonmage who is decent in pvp at the higher end of the game? I know that it is too early in testing to answer this, but it seems that way to me OR I have a lot to learn about 3.0. I hope it's the latter.

>>Moon Mages have been my bane since the dawn of time, and are one of the best PvP guilds in the game, if not the best IMO.

May not stay this way, Moon mages were the best because of their ability to knock an opponent out of a fight, with resistances, higher damage resistances, and other things this may not be as good as it is. I haven't done pvp in test, my main concern when I'm there is really to see if somethings not working right. I found quite a few things that weren't.

Shear is also terrible. So there.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga

The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.

There is way too much MM QQ right now, here and in 3.0. You guys are getting a ton of GM attention, fixing and tweaking all your stuff, releasing new spells. Stop freaking out. Please.

I agree. I see more freaking out from people Ive heard little to nothing from on these boards for ages. If anything its like 2 people who are up in arms over everything all of a sudden while the rest of us are actually quite content with how things are going.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."

A post has been removed.

I want to take a moment to talk about a Thing, and all references to "you" should be understood as to all posters, not just the person who has had their post removed. I don't like playing board monitor. However, lately the level of civility in a few categories has been less than desirable. Please consider that I do not have the same tolerance for blatant trolling and disruptive behavior that our Herculean board monitors do, and your chances to have an enforced vacation from the forums is correlated with my irritation over playing babysitter.

Address points instead of authors and post with common courtesy.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>> So my question is, does anyone who plays a moonmage actually think that it is viable to play a moonmage who is decent in pvp at the higher end of the game?

Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure how 3.0 is going to pan out but playing my moon mage in prime has been a great experience.

Have you played with the prediction system? It's not entirely difficult to end up with +200 skill levels (100 CJ / 100 prediction) on 5 different skills. You can make your own CJs pretty easy so there is barely any cost, and predictions are just fun.

Moon mages have a couple of spells that remove CJs/predictions from people and do some massive nerve damage.

Moon mages have locate/moon gate. One of the most important tools in PVP is the ability to FIND someone and to GET to them. What happens if they are on Ratha and you are on the crossing? Any non-moon mage, not worth the effort.

And let's talk about RF, a non RT sneak skill that lets you move around completely invisible and silent. Sure, people can search you are see you when you are in the room, but they don't see you ENTER the room. It's a big deal.

Someone is trying to run away? Well, seers sense them and RS them to a no exit room. The possibilities are endless.

Raesh has me drooling over all of those new teleo spells he put out and I am etching to go back to my moon mage... I was Bard for awhile and now testing out Warrior Mage.

EVERY guild has weaknesses. As Caraamon so eloquently put it. "Grass is greener, and all that."

For example, today I was pretty hurt and couldn't find an empath. That REALLY made me wish I could heal myself.... Then I was like... OOOhhh maybe I should roll a necro? Oh wait, I want to be able to go into town. Noooopeee. Even talking about it makes me want to roll another one. (I was the original Kurav that trained him as a commoner to 400+)

Anyways, the point is you will NEVER find a guild that has everything. Or what would be the point of having different guilds?

>where is the survival primes love in these types of things?

Don't worry buddy, all the survival primes have invisibility plus the hiding ranks to back it up. Invisibility is a useful utility, but it isn't very strong in terms of stealth vs. perception. If you don't want to be searched out you have to hide, even if you are invisible, and have stealth ranks.

>> Just why, why do you guys get so cool of spy things, like where is the survival primes love in these types of things?


Well, it's really only rangers who don't get a moving invisible. Although I think they may get a moving invisible in nature only? (Forgot). Thieves get one, necromancers get one, moon mages get one.

I also want to point out that Primary skillset of Magic makes learning sorcery much faster. In 3.0 it will theoretically be much easier to "shore" up any weaknesses in your spells with spell scrolls, which will now use sorcery.

So if you find weapon skills lacking... hell, the skys the limit. A couple of intro (probably cheapest) skills off the top of my head... Sure footing, tailwind, see the wind, etc. And if you want to really get crazy you could find spells like Harmony, Resonance, Aegis of Granite, and the list goes on.

3.0 is really opening things up nice... tons of options, esp. for moon mages. (Let's not forget the prediction system revamp and new teleo spells.)

Raven Trials are prepared pvp.

In real pvp which is spontaneous, MM's are deadly when they are the initiators, and viable as the defenders but thats not their strength. When an MM opens up on you, more so than many other guilds, you are basically dead cause their initial spell will knock you out of the fight.

Most other guilds will rely on the opening blow being an attack significant enough to hurt to a point that you cannot contest back, but that could fail, etc. MM's disabled are more or less gonna hit every time if the moonie is worth their salt and the rest of the fight is pretty much decided.

To answer the OC's question. Everywhere.

Want to be utility? Fine, you're not required to be in combat. Train up those magics outside the warmage guild and in a few months time, gate from anywhere to anywhere.

Want to be a pvp monster? Fine, you have the skillset and tools to pull it off. Safe rooms aren't so safe with you around. Hide in your guildhalls, Moonie McCasterson is on the rampage!

Want to craft like crazy as a plat making ninja? Fine...you've cornered the market on powerful enchantments.

Want to be a ridiculous RP character? Fine...traditionally your class can show up anywhere, for anything and say "it was foretold by Zod." and participate.

Three things are needed for any structured PVP event. Empaths, Clerics and the ability for spectators to watch the fight. Aside from wyvern trials this comes in the form of a moon mage. Can't participate in an invasion because you're RP heavy? Well you mirror the boss bad guy and gweth out their location.

Did I miss anything? Moonmages can't heal, can't raise and can't trade. I'm hard pressed to find anything else they can't do. Buff, cast, travel, craft.

Moonmages are the base guild. If you don't know what to pick pick a moonmage because they're SO diverse thanks to GM love that you really get a large slice of the DR pie. They really should get the nerf bat just because they're so cool to play.

When you complain about moon mages not having teh powah, somewhere I'm kicking a puppy.

---

Avrii says, "I'll train while youre not on and other than that you'll never see me."
You say, "Maybe y'should start wif that."

Almost all TM is a bit off at the moment and they're looking into issues about it. It's a known issue for about a month, I wouldn't get too bone-driller about it, or get too focused on it being a MM-only issue. Last I was aware, they'd pinned down (thanks Serc!) at least one issue with mentals not factoring into TM damage but it was something Socharis needed to look at because it was deep combat code related.

All that said, yeah dude, the paradigm has changed. I don't think mages will ever be smart to sit on their laurels with just TM and expect to do the damage that's possible with some of the nastiest weapons, or better yet, nasty weapons AND TM together.

Another note, performance of your abilities and spells vs critters is not equivalent to your performance vs PCs right now. Don't draw conclusions about what you're capable of in PvP because of the results you see from critters. I notice drastic discrepancies between the two in terms (though I couldn't begin to tell you why).

>>I wouldn't get too bone-driller about it
>>MOCKERJB

LOL. I love this reference. Still, whether that problem is system wide or guild wide is irrelevant. A problem has been noted, and I appreciate it being looked into. Some of the more silly posts such as MMs being the PvP bane of all time (srsly?) or about how MMs have such lovely diversity (or worse yet, how TM should not be comparable to weapon ranks), I groan.

A great post summing up the QQ reasoning that should be ignored, MOCKERJB. That being said, the problem w/ redundant/stepping-stone spells is worse in this current incarnation. Awesome disablers are pretty weak now compared to damage (as I think is good), but there needs to be at least one viable PvP damager aside from SLS. BALTHIER3 surprisingly expressed a lot of the problems w/ PvP and the current MM arsenal.