Welcome back!

I'm not a moon mage prime- but I would say use the LC, especially if you have Shadows in your spell book: The stealth hindrance for LC can be trained down.

Ryeka and the brood


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy

<<More often than not armor isn't going to save you anyway.

Good point.

>Leather or LC?

Both.

The percentage of the mix (Up to and including 100% one or the other) should depend on how much you rely on/train stealth.

Very shortly I'm planning to try out a forged chain hauberk with leather accessories mix in the 200+ armor/350+ stealth skill range and see how that works as a stealth-training-lite mage. My testing so far leads me to believe this will work out fairly well.

Serc brings up a good point about the PvP specific question. The only thing armor will do in PvP is get damaged.

Keep in mind that any answer you may get now will change "soon" as part of the sweeping combat overhaul.

---

Large, grey clouds slowly cover the skies.
>
The world seems a bit more foreboding than it did a moment ago.

If you have a shadow servant to hold your wardrobe, there is really no reason not to train all armors if your primary combat is with critters. Depending on the critter you are fighting (and its predominant form of attack), one or another type of armor may be best suited. Our spells offset/compensate for many of the disadvantages/advantages of heavier armor, but on average LC may be a good choice to start if you have to select one above all since you are not going to have all those spells right away. Further, at younger levels the "protection" of armor may matter less to you than the "absorption," but that will likely reverse itself with time. Thus at a low level, the "great" absorption permitted with hand made LC (assuming you can afford the price) may lure you in that direction, but later the "high" protection of leather with its lessor stealth impact may be more attractive.

Stated differently, a TDP is a TDP and all knowledge is useful anyway.

Train both. I use a chain shirt, and swap out accessories. For stealth training, particularly stalking early, you might need to hide the shirt. Alternatively, you can use a leather coat and swap accessories. I have a kertig shirt so I didn't go that route. It's definitely possible to train at least two armors at once, at a level close to evasion, if you keep on it. In particular, chain shirt, leather cowl, leather gloves, and a swap between Bone/Cloth pants/greaves has worked well for me.

We don't know how the combat changes are going to breakdown. There's always changes that you can't really plan for, so go with both (or more if possible) unless you hate the RP of it, or don't enjoy your play time trying to balance them.

I think that backtraining armor to effective levels of "at level" hunting will become much harder in the future, so it's best use at least 2 (maybe 3) armors that you can train at par with your evasion for now.

For PvP, they both have their uses and with the combat changes, armor help will probably get some better bite. The better protecting armors will likely become more viable at higher levels too. If I had to pick only two armors to train starting now, given my guesses on the combat changes, I'd actually train HP and leather and just lose the HP for stealth training.

--player of Traim

"Further, at younger levels the "protection" of armor may matter less to you than the "absorption," but that will likely reverse itself with time.

That's definitely not the case. ..... The reverse is actually true. "

I disagree with the disagreements for these reasons:

At low levels of skill, your primary objective usually is learning the skill as fast as you can. At higher levels you are more likely to be using the skill for other purposes than engaged in pure learning of the skill. Learning of armor is more rapid the more you get hit or nearly hit, but you do not want the hits to be so great in force as to require excessive time out for medical care since that disrupts your training. At high levels, you are hunting a critter that is more likely to have a catastrophic hit as compared to your stats, given that moon mages have less than optimal stamina and strength than most hunters (less a problem now that it once was, but still a risk). At lower levels moon mages seem to train stre/stam at more the hunter norm, but then that tapers off so that you end up with a greater risk as you get older.

Accordingly, a static reduction in damage to below the hit threshold reduces the hit to a non hit, which can result in less learning. A percentage reduction always keeps the damage within the hit threshold so there is always some learning.

Put differently, if you are training, you do not mind getting hits so long as it is not too hard and your stre/stam stats are comparable to the force exerted by the critter. If you are past mere training, you more likely do not want to get hit at all, especially if you are not keeping your stre/stam stats up to par (which seems likely with moon mages of the usual ilk).

As expressive as that may seem to you, not being a mind reader, it does nothing for me. If you have some constructive commment in agreement or disagreement, I would welcome explicit recitation of youir thoughts since presumably the boards are a learning tool for us all.

>Learning of armor is more rapid the more you get hit or nearly hit, but you do not want the hits to be so great in force as to require excessive time out for medical care since that disrupts your training.

No. The amount of armor learned depends on the primary defense which defends the attack. From least exp to greatest: evasion, parry, shield. Getting hit does not grant additional exp.

>At lower levels moon mages seem to train stre/stam at more the hunter norm,

I find this opinion highly suspect. I disagree.

>Accordingly, a static reduction in damage to below the hit threshold reduces the hit to a non hit, which can result in less learning. A percentage reduction always keeps the damage within the hit threshold so there is always some learning.

False, based on incorrect beliefs of how armor exp is granted.

>Put differently, if you are training, you do not mind getting hits so long as it is not too hard and your stre/stam stats are comparable to the force exerted by the critter. If you are past mere training, you more likely do not want to get hit at all, especially if you are not keeping your stre/stam stats up to par (which seems likely with moon mages of the usual ilk).

False, you never want to get hit unless you want a bleeder to train FA or want to help out an empath.

As was already said, you've got it backwards. Protection does grow somewhat with skill, but it is outpaced by creature offense, and it is dependent on your current combat position. Lying on the ground stunned = 1/2 protection. For this reason, absorbtion is always the most important armor stat, especially at high levels.

>I was similarly not impressed with plate armor. The extra protection just completely fails to compensate for the evasion penalty, and this gets worse the higher you get.

I briefly toyed with an LP breastplate, HP head protection, both forged for low hinderance, and either cloth or nothing for accessories. The problem for me is, even if I do die less from open rolls, I learn less overall because I rely on ambushing to train weapons. And good luck wearing plate...

But I continue to train them all because who knows what the armor situation will be like when they release player crafted bone/cloth, forging 2.0, and the new armor hinderance calcs?

Shield Usage: 750 56% enthralled (32/34) Leather Armor: 625 59% nearly locked (33/34)
Light Chain: 675 01% nearly locked (33/34) Heavy Chain: 632 07% enthralled (32/34)
Light Plate: 485 50% focused (20/34) Heavy Plate: 485 99% very engaged (23/34)
Cloth Armor: 522 23% dabbling (1/34) Bone Armor: 540 46% clear (0/34)