I think mech is a miniscule part of shifting. My empath is able to do all shifts, with minimal down time and she barely has any mech at all. She does however, have an abundance of empathy.

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Necromancy brings out the Stupid in us all. -Armifer

Maybe they'll take the opportunity to remove all of the conceptually irrelevant skills from the Shift calculations which were included for no other reason than the original designer(s) wanted to make it use a bunch of Lore skills. Then it wouldn't have to use any Mech-based skill with a sketchy-at-best conceptual tie to what's taking place...it really should just be Empathy-based.

Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor

A shaping skill would make sense if it had to be a replacement for mech.

I can't speculate much just yet as to what would seem relevant. I'd think the Binding Discipline as its magical and changing someone's physical being would be far from the mundane. Until we have more information on what is planned for the other disciplines I'll stick with that.

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Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."

I think empathy should be the primary skill that works with shifting, similar to how Primary Magic and the newly proposed Offensive and Defensive skills will. As empathy continues to grow, so will an empath's ability to shift.

I would like to see mechanical lore still play a secondary factor though. Maybe increased Outfitting skill will allow one access to new shifting options earlier since it has the Artistry Discipline. Since artistry deals with embellishing things, maybe training outfitting would allow one a small advantage by opening up new options earlier (e.g. new hair colors or face shapes earlier). While I wouldn't envision such a definition opening attributes attributes faster (such as allowing one to shift age or body shapes with few ranks) since they are more broad, that could be a possibility too.

Engineering could also play a role since it has the Shaping Discipline. As empaths are literally reshaping another's body and features, maybe this skill help one shift faster. Again, it would be a secondary affect with empathy still being the main factor.

As shifting involves altering one's features through a direct empathic link, I really don't see it fitting in the Enchanting skill. Moreover, it certainly doesn't fit very well with the three listed disciplines of runecrafting, binding, and invoking. Also, I don't feel that shifting is in of itself magical. Yes it's a supernatural feat, but it doesn't fit well in the idea of preparing and casting spells. And it certainly does not involve the use of sigils, a theme that sounds like will run through all the Enchanting disciplines.

I think why Forging shouldn't be included in shift is pretty obvious. As for Alchemy, the disciplines also don't seem to match with how I see shifting, especially since they all involve using substances. Unless we could use the Alchemy skill to make something that could be taken to shift someone remotely - either for a limited or permanent time.

Nikpack

The gods are jerks. No, really.-Armifer

I don't think we ever take the training wheels off as players or gamemasters.-Inauri

Agreed. From what I understand of what each new discipline will be I, personally, don't feel they make as much sense to effect shifting as mechanical lore does. Mechanical lore currently covers all things creatable. I mentioned binding in a previous post since it was the closest to relevant I could come up with.

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Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."

>>RUBYTU: Including crafting skills in the Shifting calculation isn't something I'd particularly like to see. It would mean forcing a lot of Empaths into certain crafting paths instead of them just picking what they like because they like it.

I agree. I'd like to separate the supernatural feat of shifting from the natural feats of crafting. I think that the lore most strongly supports shifting's being purely empathy-based, but if other skills must be added, I'd like to limit them to lores that most Empaths already train. (I agree with Nikpack that we should avoid adding secondary or tertiary skills to the mix.)


>>NIKPACK: Since you don't have to choose a particular skills as a career or hobby in order to train it, I think it's still pretty fair. Choosing it as a career or hopy only gives you access to techniques to make it much easier to make those items.

My understanding is that you will have to choose which skill to convert your mechanical lore ranks to. Adding craft skills to the shifting mechanics might put pressure on Empaths to convert their mechanical lore ranks into a skill that they don't really have any interest in practicing. (I haven't decided which career I want to pursue, but as an Empath, I don't have much interest in engineering or shaping.)

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Teilan: PHA = Healer Union. They charge for healing based on your injuries. We will now pause while everyone gives their opinion on this.

I would argue against including any crafting-system lore in Shifting. I don't see a logical correlation whereby facility with physical tools and artisanal processes would lead to increased ability to transform living tissue through an entirely magical process.

I'm not sure what the plans are for Appraisal given how skills are getting a major shakeup soon (or will it more realistically be "soon"?), but I think it still makes sense for shifting. I don't really like the idea of splintering magic into so many skills that isolate the effect of a spell, but if that's a done deal, the new skill "Utility" seems it would be an appropriate fit.

I so like the way you think. ROFLMAO!