>>Doesn't sit well with me. Reducing an activity to commerce ultimately cheapens the relationships that bind us as a community and encourages us to see each other as walking ATMs rather than people. We should do right by each other because we're all in it together and that's how a strong society rolls.

If it works that way for Empaths then it should work the same way for Rangers, Traders, Barbarians and Moon Mages. Yet somehow only Empaths are expected to work for free or for whatever the other party feels they "deserve."

In my opinion, there's nothing cheaper than the current scripted interaction between Empath and Client. I didn't set out to play Szrael as a mean Dergati-worshipping fiend. She was originally (when she was still a commoner) a reasonably mild-mannered Peri'el worshiper with a somewhat wide combat streak.

But the way people treat Empaths is shameful and any character with an ounce of pride will eventually object to being...well...objectified, used, and pretty much entirely taken for granted.

And then of course there's the fact that healing is an almost entirely altruistic thing to do. It's not the best way to train, not the best way to make money, not the best anything at all.

And, well. Here we are!

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

I will say that I tip at least a plat or more for each and every heal. I think all empaths are wortht heir weight in gold and should be paid accodrindly.


Miv
I would rather have an intelligent enemy than a stupid friend.

>> I don't think I have ever come across any who thought they deserved healing.

Try charging.

---

Rev. Reene

Szrael says, "I may deliberately do pretty awful things to my body, but you moon mages let terrible things happen right inside your own skulls."

>>I don't think I have ever come across any who thought they deserved healing.

My post was in response to the notion that people think they should be able to choose what to pay the Empath. They feel it is their right, after they are healed, to choose what the Empath deserves to be paid. Not that everyone feels they deserve to be healed.

Some people do seem to feel they deserve to be healed, but almost everyone feels it is their right to choose how and whether to pay the Empath who chooses to heal them. Whether or not they feel that they deserve healing.

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

>>Or refusing a request to heal for any reason.

Didn't someone report your Empath for that? I can't remember who it was now. But yeah, not everyone thinks they deserve to be healed, but some people do. Oh, they surely do.

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

>>Or refusing a request to heal for any reason.<<

This got my empath killed. Why should I heal anyone at all when as Szrael pointed out, healing someone isn't the best way to train, learn, or ANYTHING. I can circle all the way to 150th without healing anyone at all, and I simply choose to avoid dealing with the people that can't handle paying up front. There's plenty of empaths that heal for little to nothing, I'll let them do it.


________________________________________

If it helps, just think of yourself as the fluorescent light in the buglamp of life.

- GM Dartenian

>>Or refusing a request to heal for any reason

Fran has refused to heal people for many reasons. Wanders about in disguise and will not respond to requests for healing if she doesn't feel like it. She may be a "nice" person in some people's eyes, but she does what she wants, when she wants and in her own time and on average will make 2 to 3 plat per healing she does. Does she charge up front, no, does she heal for free, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on how she is feeling that day, does she make good coin, yes.

Francelia (The lost empath)
______________________________________
Fantasy is an exercise bicycle for the mind. It might not take you anywhere, but it tones up the muscles that can. Of course, I could be wrong. ~Terry Prachett~

>> It seems like you guys can create your own Empath experience. So if a particular empath player feels objectified, used, and taken for granted, they are possibly doing it wrong.

When Empaths are being literally harassed or straight-out killed for doing nothing more than saying "no, I won't heal you" then you cannot possibly say the blame rests solely on the Empath.

---

Rev. Reene

Szrael says, "I may deliberately do pretty awful things to my body, but you moon mages let terrible things happen right inside your own skulls."

>>I just don't think Empaths asking to be paid up front is society breaking. If anything, I think it changes the way people feel about Empaths and helps them stop treating Empaths like heal-bots or glass figurines to be cherished but never really taken seriously as characters.<<

If you need the money, go for it. If you're looking for respect and actualization, there is a better way to go. How a character gets treated has a lot more to do with how they present themselves in general than whether they are charging for services, in my experience. Charging up front for healing gives you all the moral gravitas of a barrista at Starbucks, which doesn't seem like what you're going for.

(Barristas are valuable people who provide a worthy service to society. I <3 barristas. Srsly.)

I definitely think Empaths should feel more empowered, though. And healing should teach better so that doing it doesn't have to be a total act of altruism.

>>If you feel so strongly about this matter, I'd be amused to see you carry the banner to the Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger and Trader folders. The society-breaking ways are far more pervasive there than in the Empath guild.<<

Cooperation is better than commerce. I don't see why you'd want to be a part of commerce if you don't need the money.

- Mazrian

The Flying Company
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/huldahspal/flyingcompany.png

>>Asking to be paid up front will create the opportunity for more social interaction with strangers, but it may not necessarily be positive, as evidenced by all the complaint and conflict threads on these boards over the past weeks.

Why should everything be positive? I'm not playing DR because I want a nice bowl of sugar placed in front of me every time I log in. I love that this is making Empaths more than a giant group of 2D characters. The entire time I've played DR, the vast majority of Empaths have all been exactly the same. They sit around and teach and heal, will take hugs or tips if you have them. They never stood up for each other, they never start fights because they're scared.

Seriously, if I could go back through the years of my character being healed by other Empaths, every experience would be practically identical.

I love that some people will play games, or barter, or offer alternative payment.

And if someone has a problem with it, sucks for them. I'm having fun (isn't that the POINT?).

I agree about the 2D Empath thing. I think, if anything, all this paying upfront havoc is maybe making it more desirable for those who heal for free and enjoy doing it. Now more people will seek them out if they don't feel they should pay up front.

It helps divide a guild that previously was very one note and I take a bow to the people who are strong-arming these changes. I see a lot of this in my guild too (Bard), there are several ways for any character to play a guild but certain guilds have very defined limitations. For instance, you have Clerics. Light, Dark, Neutral, All encompassing. Paladins - Dark & Light (although mechanics for a dark paladin stink right now). Warrior Mages and their Cabals. Moon Mages and their Sects, performing Bards & non performing Bards, and now we have two different types of Empaths where before..it SEEMED like all we had was Hugglesnugglepuss who wanted hugs and candycanes for her tip instead of money.

Anyway, that was a lot of babbling. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Give me herbs or give me the Empath Union, but don't give me hugs.

That's all.


- Terra

>>That's because there's no such thing as a Dark Paladin IIRC<<

Oh, good to know. Then I guess I meant Paladins who have fallen from grace? Heretics or commoners, whatever you want to call them? <g> Never paid much attention either way. I guess that's why I didn't know that


- Terra

>>If you need the money, go for it. If you're looking for respect and actualization, there is a better way to go. How a character gets treated has a lot more to do with how they present themselves in general than whether they are charging for services, in my experience. Charging up front for healing gives you all the moral gravitas of a barrista at Starbucks, which doesn't seem like what you're going for

Empaths who disclose their fee upfront have the same moral gravitas as Doctors, Lawyers, Mechanics, Teachers, and Wal-Mart greeters.

A barrista at Starbucks, a Wal-Mart greeter, a lawyer, etc., is also not being asked to undergo grievous bodily harm, for free, on behalf of someone else, very likely a stranger. I think there's a pretty large breakdown here, between what is realistic and what is the status quo in Elanthia. Yes, Elanthians are super strong and have super stamina, but still, I just can't imagine anyone volunteering to undergo that kind of (essentially) torture for free, without some other motivating factor (friendship, nationalism, etc). A lot of Empaths are altruistic, but I think expecting an entire guild to be altruistic is pretty ridiculous, especially when there's no moral or spiritual component to Empathy itself.

Furthermore, healing renders the Empath incapable (for a while) of pursuing other trades or training. Szrael didn't join the Empath guild to heal people -- to her, healing is just a sort of interesting consequence of Empathy.

I guess maybe this is where we differ -- there is no moral component to Empathy, and I don't see any reason why Empaths should subscribe to any given set of morals.

>>Cooperation is better than commerce. I don't see why you'd want to be a part of commerce if you don't need the money.

Szrael always needs money, but healing actually prevents her from making money the most efficiently. I don't think it's strange for her to ask to be compensated for her time, especially if the other party became injured through purely self-serving activity such as hunting.

>>Asking to be paid up front will create the opportunity for more social interaction with strangers, but it may not necessarily be positive, as evidenced by all the complaint and conflict threads on these boards over the past weeks.

I agree, and honestly I prefer negative social interaction to the scripted, boring interaction that makes up almost all Empath/Client exchanges.

Furthermore, while Szrael does ask up front, again, she almost never volunteers to heal someone, and she rarely says much to Empaths who jump in and offer to heal people for free. Most of these conflicts come about when people react negatively to Szrael or other Empaths who charge, and not the other way around. I know that negotiating up front will never be the status quo, but I find it makes the game more entertaining, and I enjoy playing a unique and beautiful scaly snowflake.

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.