Eh...it happens...it's annoying, but it happens.

By chance, was one of your friends a thief? :grin: This Empath was probably more interested in money than helping out, so perhaps the next time there's a pickpocket friend around ya, enlist his/her assistance.

Just an idea...


~Brady, player of Bounty Hunter Samus, Wayne Brady and M. Baiter of The Fallen

---

The shadowling exclaims, "Bogo!"
Looks like someone has BOGO on the brain...
~~~
Join The Fallen!

>>As far as the whole asking for three plat up front I somehow feel there's more to it than what was said.

You don't know the half of it... I've the interesting perspective of getting to see unvarneshed logs of the empath in question(walking the 10 steps to her computer helps hee) and to say that the originial goof left a bit out would be a slight understatement. If I were in her shoes, I would have let the little meathead die, snickering the while time. Additionally, if I'd've had the fortune of being there, at least one of that little party of dipsticks would have needed a cleric too.

Way to bash someone for having a backbone and standing up for themselves dispite you being a jerk, sucks when it goes in the favor of the 'lil guy' for once eh?

P.S. Petal, I'll keep an eye out for your lil gang now, sense you didn't have the brass tacks to take your lumps and drop it, I guess I won't either.


Paragon Samsaren Remlane, Guardian Lord of Therengia, beloved partner of the Battle Empath Nimmi Arkent.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man, target practice on the other hand, is another matter entirely.

It really all depends on the situation. I have in many instances asked for a set amount up front. The usual reason is that if someone gweths for a path, and I have to inturupt my training to come help. Other reasons would be if it was someone I know is high circle who didn't bother to tip last time, or someone who I caught stealing from me.

As I said, it all depends. If I'm healing though, tips tend not to be important, and I just take what I'm given.

Mole
_______
At 1.0000001 with the Universe
I...just wants to go around killing people - Souv

Nimmi has always been a quality empath in my experience. Aside from my doubts that she would put someone in that situation without them doing a good deal to put themselves there, I think it's perfectly in the empath's rights to demand payment for a service. When the patients' lives are in danger I think the empath does have a certain degree of obligation to stabilize them. If they are being jerks, I think they also have a certain degree of obligation to watch them die.


~Purehand

>I've always wondered where the members of our guild stand on this subject.

I've never supported mandatory healing for empaths, but I wouldn't report someone who killed Dio for not healing, either. Being OOC is consent. <shrug> Unfortunately, in the case of an empath refusing to heal, the person not being healed is the victim. To stay in charcter, the empath must heal since it is the defining function of the guild.

That said, I don't think it's right when someone kills an empath for not healing when there is no reasonable sign the character is an empath. Using a piece of equipment such as the unicorn shield or the steel tower with the empath crest isn't enough, it has to be something only an empath would wear, such as a ring or epaulet.

The reason for this is that I think if someone isn't advertising their guild, then they shouldn't be required under policy to fulfill the role of that guild.

Also, don't listen to Sakhara on these matters.

(Or me for that matter, but definitely not Sakhara, heh)

~Purehand

>>I've never supported mandatory healing for empaths, but I wouldn't report someone who killed Dio for not healing, either. Being OOC is consent. <shrug> Unfortunately, in the case of an empath refusing to heal, the person not being healed is the victim. To stay in charcter, the empath must heal since it is the defining function of the guild.

I strongly disagree with that. Just because an empath refuses to heal doesn't mean they're being OOC. I stay in character just fine and I barely heal anymore unless I'm just that bored. People who think like that annoy me. "Healing is the defining function of the guild" It's our SOLE purpose in elanthia, to heal people and if we don't get tipped then that's just ok. Who cares?

I have heard so many arguments lately about empaths.

1. People shouldn't HAVE to tip because just by allowing us to heal them we are getting experience. I say people like that should just be left to die.

2. The other reason people see no reason to tip, "Empaths can hunt and make their own monies." Yes...if that is ALL I do for 3 days i may have earned 1 plat. MAYBE. I'm training to be a battle empath but it's slow work and I can't handle anything higher then a grendel yet.

3. The fact that the guild is divided by the whole to accept tips or not to accept tips. Yes, it may be your choice to not accept tips but I hate it when empaths simply decline and don't give a reason why they are declining or say, "I don't believe in charging for my gift. However we have plenty of young ones who don't get many tips, if you like you could leave the gem on the shelf" or something. Sometimes when we don't accept tips that makes the person feel as though all empaths heal out of the kindess of their hearts because of their gift. Truth is when I stop and start healing people it's because I'm broke.

4. The whole you shouldn't attack empaths. Yes, I can see where an empath is soo threatening that you must kill them! I can understand if the empath in question has been rudely insulting you all day and then begins to try and cast lethargy or nissa's binding or some other such spell, then they have taken action against you. But I have seen empaths killed for simply disagreeing with someone. What that says to me is some can't win a sparring match or something so to make himself feel bigger and better he kills the first empath who has an attitude.

If anyone should be questioning our ethics I think it should be the empaths. It seems like we just roll over and let people walk all over us. I'm sick of it. I don't think our guild gets that much respect, when face it, how many of you who aren't empaths would have died if not for an empath at some point or other. But, whatever, these are just my opinions and I'm entitled to them just as any of you are entitled to your own. Take them or leave them as you please, i just think that the empaths, as a guild, should think about the way things are. As far as i'm concerned guilds are supposed to be united, share common cause, whatever. Sindea may be an empath, might sit in the guild to heal but I don't think that the guild, as in the people who form it, really exists because of the fact we are so divded on so many subjects.

~Sindea

>Just because an empath refuses to heal doesn't mean they're being OOC.

Oh, I hate it like poison, but that doesn't mean it's not right. If you are playing Glinda in the Wizard of Oz, it is OOC to cackle and cheer when the Wicked Witch sends her monkeys after Dorothy.

>It's our SOLE purpose in elanthia, to heal people and if we don't get tipped

Ask any guild leader. Guilds have definitions. Empaths happen to have the narrowest, particularly in relation to other characters. Ask any other charcter of any other guild in Elanthia what the purpose of an empath is and they'll say healing unless they're lying through their teeth to keep their empath spouse from beating up on them. Flat out, what other purpose do we have? The occasional beauty salon? That's not even officially sanctioned.

>I say people like that should just be left to die.

Yup, Dio does. And then if they come back and try to kill him, he takes it.

From News 5 24

Any statement, emote or action used in a negative manner against another player has the potential to be considered consent, especially when it is deliberately used to goad the target into a physical encounter. There should be evidence of provocation strong enough to warrant a reasonable person to respond in a negative manner. A single taunt, slap, kick, etc., alone may not be sufficient. However, if a player is repeatedly and openly insulting another player, or kicking, punching, slapping, etc. -- then that person is operating under implied consent.

In other words, if their target gets tired of the abuse and chooses to react in a more physical manner, they have the ability to do so. If the abuser has been reasonably warned to cease their behavior, and they continue with said actions, then they are giving their target consent. "Hit me again and I will kill you." Abuser does it again, bingo -- he just consented. Interpretation: Don't write checks your player won't cash. *Do not expect staff intervention in situations that you have provoked, exacerbated or kept deliberately ongoing.* You will be expected to deal with the repercussions of your actions.

Letting someone die is certainly behaving in a negative manner toward another player and most definately consent, since you just killed them through your behavior. Refusing to heal is deliberate provocation by threating another character's life. That looks pretty straight forward to me.

>But I have seen empaths killed for simply disagreeing with someone.

See above. That is also a deliberate provocation and consent. The empath can strike back. Just because the penalties for striking back are the most severe for any action in game doesn't mean anything under consent and policy. It's back to "Live on your knees or die on your feet." That is a choice.

>It seems like we just roll over and let people walk all over us.

Because we have that above choice. We can either stand up for ourselves and take the shock, possibly never healing or circling again, or we can live on our knees.

<<I did ask for some background information from the empath several times so I could better understand her seemingly selfish motives but got nothing. >>

Actually, if you had paid attention, I told your pal exactly why I was charging up front. Since he agreed to pay, he either understood why or really, really didn't want to die. Did I feel the need to respond to your whispers? Nope. I was busy and had already stated why I did what I did.

As for the patient in question, he understood why and accepted that. The whole little ordeal was quite amusing for me, and I was proud of myself for standing up for my own ethics. I don't feel people should just be rude or even indifferent in passing, because, well, let's face it - as you can see - you never know when you might run into that person again and under what circumstances. It was my ethics of politeness towards me and mine that inspired me. (Yes, there was an "incidence" that sparked this ordeal. It was talked out and all is well between me and the guy as far as I'm concerned.)

I will say that your remarks and those of your other friend almost got the original guy left to die. I didn't feel the abuse was necessary especially since the infected guy didn't feel the need to harrass me, and some of those comments by the peanut gallery - not even worth the 3 plat. As has been stated, I don't need the money, it was not out of greed, but out of the desire to have a backbone and stand for something I believe in. I've seen that guy in Rossman's, so I really doubt the 3 plat is hurting his wallet and if it is, he has the potential to remedy that in a rather short time. If he was that concerned about it, he'd have said no thank you, I'd have went on my merry way, and he'd either made it to help elsewhere or died trying.

On another note, you may think less of me. You may say that I shame my guild, but remember, if I had been your friend prior, and was telling you about the situation and you weren't involved, you'd be applauding for me having made 3 plat in 5 minutes. It's all in what side of the fence you're on.

~Chris

First thing I disagree with is the 'purpose' statement which always seems to come up during the discussion of empaths, or any other guild for that matter. A well roleplayed character in DR becomes an individual, a person. People do not have a narrowly defined 'purpose'. That would be similar to saying the 'purpose' of Fred the janitor is to sweep the hall. No, its his job. Just like Fred, and empath's job is to heal. But, also like Fred, an empath can choose not to do the job, if the money or some other factor doesnt suit him.

The case of empaths being able to just decline service is strained because of the possibility for death on the part of the patient. Unlike most services in the realms, healing critical injuries is not one where a person can seek alternate 'sellers'. Granted, in town there are autopuffs, but cases where folks cant make it into town before death, or trauma situations, most empaths are willing to at least stabilize the patient. Even if the patient does die, people can come back to life!

I have no problem with empaths demanding payment, and at times my empath will goad some extra cash out of patients. I do have a problem with defining a 'purpose' to empaths. I roleplay my character as a person with much more going on than my affiliation to the Empath guild, and I know many other players RP the same way. Purpose is intended for machines and tools, not people.

-Player of Davidovf

Oh My god...

First off..any Empath who asks for money for services up front can do so. Basically they are the one that are healing you, if you don't like it, die and pay the cleric.

Secondly Nimmi as quirky as she is, I've always seen as a good Empath on both my characters, so I don't find it odd or anything that she would ask for payment up front. I know a few Empaths who ask for payments up front, since now a days as we get higher, we don't need to heal people anymore. I rarely heal anyone unless they ask nicely.

Third..its a ROLE PLAYING game. If they want to Role play their Empath in such a manner so be it. Realize that the screen you are looking at is not real, you don't have control...Now turn it off, and go cry outside.

People are getting crazier these days...


~Villya

---

"A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin."
-H. L. Mencken

Unless they'd done something to deserve it, I wouldn't even demand payment from someone who was actually seriously dying.

I would save their life THEN ask for some 'motivation' to finish, or walk away and let someone else do it.

Priorities, people!

>> As far as the whole asking for three plat up front I somehow feel there's more to it than what was said.

Yeah this sure does sound like it. They probably had some history or something and she might not have wanted to talk about it with a stranger. I would have done the same thing if it was someone I didn't like or that I'd blacklisted (and most people go on the blacklist for being cheap anyway).

I would have laughed very hard when they refused, died, and got pissed off. All part of the magic of being an Empath.

>> But I have seen empaths killed for simply disagreeing with someone.

Beats the old days in which killing any Empath for any reason would get you hunted down and killed multiple times, possibly walked.

At least now we're starting to be independant and held accountable for what we do and say, even if that's taken to extremes sometimes (just like with every other guild).

---

Rev. Reene, player of a few

>
Clemency struggles with his clogged crevice.

This thread is a perfect example of why when an empath can use percieve health to gain empathy ranks effectively, they prefer that to healing people.

Killing an empath because you won't pay for the service of being healed for a condition you introduced to yourself and could have avoided is illogical.

- The Player of Holdenn, a bad empath

Not liking an answer you're given doesn't mean one wasn't given. - Painbringer Skiori

Ayn Rand also thought hypocritical adultery and homophobia was awesome, too. She wasn't all new, anyways. She was like a poorly thought out Nietzsche that was deluded into thinking she could write literature.

Why would I pay an empath upfront when, in most cases an herb will do a job faster (in terms of time lost/gained off the battle field)? ::ponder::

I look forwards to the day we can create disease curing herbs...

---

(This Is Not) Mrrar

Out of Context Theatre
"Shaved head, but in a good way."--Ragran
"Their number is negligible and they are stupid."--Eisenhower
~~Join The Fallen!~~ (So you don't bother me >:o )

>> I'm not sure if that's because my Cleric is more likely to be able to splatter them if they attack her, or what, but it's definitely something I've noticed.

Not just the splatter, but the fact that Empaths for years and years have cultivated an image of themselves as being wound slaves under everyone's heel for the experience to advance in their guild. Even now you see young(ish) Empaths begging for wounds, asking for someone to go get hurt so they can be healed, healing people no matter how appalling their behavior and acting happy about bleeding from six brand new orfices. Roleplaying as someone without self-respect is fine but it gets old after you see the same thing time after time.

>> Honestly, the average tip amounts are pretty appalling, and those Empaths who don't do resale or have spouses/family/"brothers and sisters" that make money are pretty screwed, financially.

Extremely true.

It's also why I get really bothered when an Empath gets tipped a topaz/crystal/diopside or two and gushes over it, or (heaven forbid) calls it a good tip. Mind, I'm talking about people I know can afford better, because I see them in decent level hunting grounds hacking away.

Passively reinforcing someone's bad habits are one thing...But actively telling them that their pittiance is good? No. I'm getting more vocal about it now, and I won't accept tips of the topaz, crystal or diopside variety. Tell them why too. How mean I am about it tends to vary based on how much expensive fluff I see them wearing (though I've never accepted tips from obvious novices so that's never an issue with me).

---

Rev. Reene, player of a few

>
Clemency struggles with his clogged crevice.

<<Even now you see young(ish) Empaths begging for wounds, asking for someone to go get hurt so they can be healed, healing people no matter how appalling their behavior and acting happy about bleeding from six brand new orfices.>>

I think a lot of these idiots are slave characters.

On the other hand, perhaps I just tell myself that because I prefer to believe that no REAL Empath would behave that way.

<<It's also why I get really bothered when an Empath gets tipped a topaz/crystal/diopside or two and gushes over it, or (heaven forbid) calls it a good tip. Mind, I'm talking about people I know can afford better, because I see them in decent level hunting grounds hacking away.>>

It's just pathetic.

My least favorite method of tipping, ever, is when someone clearly just empties their pockets on you, and it totals maybe 2 silver.

Soandso gives you 20 copper dokoras.
Soandso gives you 8 bronze lirums.
Soandso gives you 1 silver kronar.
Soandso gives you 10 copper kronars.

Aren't they embarrassed? Do they think if they give me a lot of small coins in different denominations I won't notice how pathetic the tip is?

What's worst about this whole "tip" vs. "payment" situation, though, is that it is often other Empaths and Clerics who are the most abusive of their guildmates for attempting to take a stand and require payment rather than merely accepting a tip.

I have had several unfortunate experiences where my Cleric was the only Cleric in her guildhall, and upon her refusal to touch a corpse without monetary incentive, another Cleric was gwethed for. When these Clerics arrived and were apprised of the situation, they usually got downright infuriated, and proceeded to sit there and rejuve any corpse that arrived with self-righteous alacrity, in a furor to prove how self-abasing "real" Clerics can be.

My Cleric didn't care. It gave her more time and mana with which to cast Benediction. :) But for me, it's sort of depressing. I'm sure Empaths can be just as bad, I just have less personal experience with it because my Empath is more generally a pleasant person and rarely attempts to secure up front payment for her services.

~Laril, and some Cleric.

>and upon her refusal to touch a corpse without monetary incentive

My empath pretty much hates healing corpses and generally will pawn the job off on anyone else slow enough to not get caught. Oh, he'll do it, complaining and moaning and fussing the whole time ... slowly, very slowly, in hopes another empath will show up.

Again, bad role playing, but he grew up without raise. He's seen it now. His husband has done it and has even raised him. He still hates touching corpses. If the corpse is nice enough and really, really works at it, yeah, he'll heal them with reasonable speed. (This isn't counting friends, who will get healed when dead.) But he just doesn't like it. Of course it helps that a corpse can't get up and chase him down to kill him. He can get away with mouthing off to a corpse, which I think is also part of it.

Speaking of which, can a corpse really get consent for an empath refusing to heal them? Dio's opinion is that since they're already dead, he's not harming them by not touching them. He has a very vague concept of consent, that being what the gods will punish him for violating, just like the voices from heaven came down when he said a banned word. Sorta something like sin. So, he does understand he's not allowed to let people die no matter how obnoxious they are, unless he can do it without getting caught. He can have very selective hearing, something like a cat.

>Speaking of which, can a corpse really get consent for an empath refusing to heal them?

No. And if refusing to help another is consent, I expect battle royale to ensue in my vicinity, because I hardly ever bother with deaders.

---

Reporting is futile, you will be assimilated.

>My empath pretty much hates healing corpses and generally will pawn the job off on anyone else slow enough to not get caught. Oh, he'll do it, complaining and moaning and fussing the whole time ... slowly, very slowly, in hopes another empath will show up.

>Again, bad role playing

This is actually good roleplaying and makes sense IC.

~Purehand

>>I heal you long time. Heal you gud. Make forget herbs. Long time! ~ Purehand

Hahahah! Damn you!! Now how do you get coffee out of a keyboard? :-D

--
Ranger Hanryu _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, Sword of House Calibanor
(Don't drink and post, kids)