Okay I give. Can anyone tell me what I can possibly hunt that will teach me even a trickle of Empathy? I keep hearing that you should keep your combats within 100 of your Empathy. My Empathy is at 108, my defenses (parry, shield, evasion, defending, armor) are all right around 60 ranks. I tried Blood Wolves near Crossing, but they did not move Empathy past clear. So I decided to try Sand Sprites, since Elanthipedia has their manipulate learning cap listed at 136.
Well I'm manipulating two at once and Empathy is at... clear. Am I glitched? Do I just need to work my combat skills harder?
I'm getting really frustrated, as finding patients to heal is rather a pain in the rump, especially if you can't stand the scroll outside the Crossing guild for long. Empathy is the only thing I need for over 10 circles. I'm really enjoying my Empath, except for the insanity of Empathy.
I guess if I have to I will just have to health walk for hours on end. Doesn't sound like too much fun though.
Thanks for any suggestions ya'll can offer!
TAPPY
ASREA
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/22/2013 06:26 AM CDT
>I'm really enjoying my Empath, except for the insanity of Empathy.
It's gotten better. We have come a long way since the days of decaying transference (don't want to heal? negative EXP for you!). Think of it as a journey where you can now steadily learn empathy through many sources instead of having to focus solely on health walks/leeches/healing/combat.
>Okay I give. Can anyone tell me what I can possibly hunt that will teach me even a trickle of Empathy?
The Empathy range of a critter is usually close to the combat range.. so sand sprites at around 60-100 isn't going to hit much empathy for you at 100+. The ranges get larger as you move up so you'll find this less and less problematic as you move up.
My recommendation based on your combat range is the snowbeast den north of the gondola. Avoid getting swarmed if possible. Spell up.
It's gotten better. We have come a long way since the days of decaying transference (don't want to heal? negative EXP for you!). Think of it as a journey where you can now steadily learn empathy through many sources instead of having to focus solely on health walks/leeches/healing/combat.
>Okay I give. Can anyone tell me what I can possibly hunt that will teach me even a trickle of Empathy?
The Empathy range of a critter is usually close to the combat range.. so sand sprites at around 60-100 isn't going to hit much empathy for you at 100+. The ranges get larger as you move up so you'll find this less and less problematic as you move up.
My recommendation based on your combat range is the snowbeast den north of the gondola. Avoid getting swarmed if possible. Spell up.
TAPPY
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/22/2013 08:41 PM CDT
>It's gotten better. We have come a long way since the days of decaying transference (don't want to heal? negative EXP for you!). Think of it as a journey where you can now steadily learn empathy through many sources instead of having to focus solely on health walks/leeches/healing/combat.
...oh horrible curse word. I think I had BLOCKED the memory of decaying transference. :shudder: I've been gone for eight years, these things slip out of the cracks in my ancient brain.
I keep trying to learn through many sources, it's just frustrating that healing people teaches about a hundred times better than anything else I've tried, and that I can't learn it in combat at all.
>The Empathy range of a critter is usually close to the combat range.. so sand sprites at around 60-100 isn't going to hit much empathy for you at 100+. The ranges get larger as you move up so you'll find this less and less problematic as you move up.
Erg! People kept saying 'within a hundred ranks' but I guess that's at higher levels with wider creature ranges, I didn't even think about that. Derp. I am made of smart. Well, that and Elanthipedia said 136. DARN YOU EPEDIA. ;)
>My recommendation based on your combat range is the snowbeast den north of the gondola. Avoid getting swarmed if possible. Spell up.
Thank you! I'll give it a shot and if they smash me up too much I will just take it as a lesson that I need to go work my combats and forget about leveling for a while. When I came back to DR and found out about manipulate and learning Empathy in combat I was really excited, decided to dust off my level 5 babypath and go the battlepath route, so when Empathy refused to learn in combat I got a leeetle frustrated.
Thank you again! :)
...oh horrible curse word. I think I had BLOCKED the memory of decaying transference. :shudder: I've been gone for eight years, these things slip out of the cracks in my ancient brain.
I keep trying to learn through many sources, it's just frustrating that healing people teaches about a hundred times better than anything else I've tried, and that I can't learn it in combat at all.
>The Empathy range of a critter is usually close to the combat range.. so sand sprites at around 60-100 isn't going to hit much empathy for you at 100+. The ranges get larger as you move up so you'll find this less and less problematic as you move up.
Erg! People kept saying 'within a hundred ranks' but I guess that's at higher levels with wider creature ranges, I didn't even think about that. Derp. I am made of smart. Well, that and Elanthipedia said 136. DARN YOU EPEDIA. ;)
>My recommendation based on your combat range is the snowbeast den north of the gondola. Avoid getting swarmed if possible. Spell up.
Thank you! I'll give it a shot and if they smash me up too much I will just take it as a lesson that I need to go work my combats and forget about leveling for a while. When I came back to DR and found out about manipulate and learning Empathy in combat I was really excited, decided to dust off my level 5 babypath and go the battlepath route, so when Empathy refused to learn in combat I got a leeetle frustrated.
Thank you again! :)
BLUESUEDESHOES
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/23/2013 08:05 AM CDT
The empathy training range of manipulate varies by critter. First tier snow goblins were still teaching me empathy at nearly 200 ranks, but other critters in the 110 to 150 combat range did not. Middle tier brocket deer train better combats than 1st tier snow goblins, but won't teach me empathy through manipulate, so it's just a matter of finding a critter that will do it. I had been circling off of nothing but manipulated ranks, but now that I'm in a more populated place, the empathy ranks are flying from healing people. It will be a while before my combats catch up, and I'm ALWAYS in combat.
________________________________________________________________
"EMPATHS RULE ELANTHIA -- ALL SHALL LOVE US AND DESPAAAAAIR" ~GM Melete
________________________________________________________________
"EMPATHS RULE ELANTHIA -- ALL SHALL LOVE US AND DESPAAAAAIR" ~GM Melete
TAPPY
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/23/2013 08:41 AM CDT
>The empathy training of manipulate varies by critter.
Well that just makes life more complicated, okay! Good to know, thank you.
>I had been circling off of nothing but manipulated ranks, but now that I'm in a more populated place, the empathy ranks are flying from healing people.
Where do you find patients!? Also patience, 'cause sometimes I want to smack people. Okay often, I often want to smack people. ;)
Thank you for the tips, I guess I'll just have to try lots of mobs in each range as I level my combats.
Well that just makes life more complicated, okay! Good to know, thank you.
>I had been circling off of nothing but manipulated ranks, but now that I'm in a more populated place, the empathy ranks are flying from healing people.
Where do you find patients!? Also patience, 'cause sometimes I want to smack people. Okay often, I often want to smack people. ;)
Thank you for the tips, I guess I'll just have to try lots of mobs in each range as I level my combats.
BLUESUEDESHOES
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/23/2013 12:33 PM CDT
>>Where do you find patients!? Also patience, 'cause sometimes I want to smack people. Okay often, I often want to smack people.<<
I've been very pleasantly surprised with the amount of patients I've found in and around Therengia. I do my own thing and I'm in combat most of the time, but a lot of the regulars are figuring out that they can drop in on me and I'll heal them up, or I've been known to run the ropes to Rossman's or Riverhaven, so I get called on a lot. Sometimes there are a TON of empaths around, and sometimes I'm the only one. I'm having fun with it. I'll usually broadcast over the gweth about every 2 hours something like the following:
You hear your mental voice echo, "Vahga's Battle Empath Emporium is now open in the middle of blood wolves. Drop in for a free consultation and healing"
I don't spam the gweth (at least I don't think I do) and it lets people know that there's an empath around. I've heard some spamming every 15 minutes whining for patients and that's just annoying, so I understand the urge to smack people, but the way I look at it, you don't need patients to learn empathy, you can health walk, you can manipulate, or you can find a patient or two. If I don't want to deal with people, I just stay in combat and don't bother with them. Good luck.
________________________________________________________________
"EMPATHS RULE ELANTHIA -- ALL SHALL LOVE US AND DESPAAAAAIR" ~GM Melete
I've been very pleasantly surprised with the amount of patients I've found in and around Therengia. I do my own thing and I'm in combat most of the time, but a lot of the regulars are figuring out that they can drop in on me and I'll heal them up, or I've been known to run the ropes to Rossman's or Riverhaven, so I get called on a lot. Sometimes there are a TON of empaths around, and sometimes I'm the only one. I'm having fun with it. I'll usually broadcast over the gweth about every 2 hours something like the following:
You hear your mental voice echo, "Vahga's Battle Empath Emporium is now open in the middle of blood wolves. Drop in for a free consultation and healing"
I don't spam the gweth (at least I don't think I do) and it lets people know that there's an empath around. I've heard some spamming every 15 minutes whining for patients and that's just annoying, so I understand the urge to smack people, but the way I look at it, you don't need patients to learn empathy, you can health walk, you can manipulate, or you can find a patient or two. If I don't want to deal with people, I just stay in combat and don't bother with them. Good luck.
________________________________________________________________
"EMPATHS RULE ELANTHIA -- ALL SHALL LOVE US AND DESPAAAAAIR" ~GM Melete
NEVANO
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/24/2013 02:17 PM CDT
Definitely work on getting those defenses up to equal or exceed your Empathy. Bloodwolves only worked for me until about 90 ranks in Empathy (it was still moving, but very slowly) so I moved over to Morah Vines/Creepers where it was moving nicely until about 110 ranks when I jumped into Gargoyles. I went from 70 to 110 ranks in Empathy almost solely through Manipulation, the rest was healing other hunters in Blood Wolves, since there was almost always 2-4 other people in there with me. I'm in the Premie Garg area, so there's nothing to manipulate, but when I'm done locking combats, I head over to the Empath Guild area to heal some folks up when I can. It comes and goes like some folks have said, sometimes all I can get are some scratches, which is better than nothing, but other times you get a crowd of people with pulped bodies and it's difficult to keep up.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/24/2013 02:39 PM CDT
<<especially if you can't stand the scroll outside the Crossing guild>>
Be grateful you can still say there is too much scroll anywhere in the game.
Be grateful you can still say there is too much scroll anywhere in the game.
TAPPY
Re: Manipulate teaching
06/24/2013 07:28 PM CDT
Thanks so much folks :D I will definitely think of advertising when I'm hunting in the future. I guess I just really need to push those combat skills.
>>Be grateful you can still say there is too much scroll anywhere in the game.
:P It's not so much the scroll most of the time, as the constant fights, AFK scripters and other minor annoyances.
>>Be grateful you can still say there is too much scroll anywhere in the game.
:P It's not so much the scroll most of the time, as the constant fights, AFK scripters and other minor annoyances.
DRPLAYER1
Re: Manipulate teaching
07/18/2013 12:29 AM CDT
I'm having similar issues. Grass eels don't teach at all at 50, but they'll teach weapons to my barbarian very well up to the 60s. I went into beisswurms, could only manipulate one, and it took me about 20 minutes to reach 5/34. Perhaps there's an issue of humanoid vs. animal, where humanoids are tougher somehow and teach better? All of my combats are higher than my empathy so it's more than a little frustrating that nothing I can stand toe to toe with teaches.
ASREA
Re: Manipulate teaching
07/18/2013 03:18 PM CDT
It's an issue sometimes as non-required tertiary skills are generally going to lag behind our core-required primary skill. Experiment with different things in the combat range, and remember that you shouldn't be afraid to hunt up a little bit! You can heal yourself!
SARKRANIS
Re: Manipulate teaching
07/18/2013 03:57 PM CDT
>>Asrea: Experiment with different things in the combat range, and remember that you shouldn't be afraid to hunt up a little bit! You can heal yourself!
This, especially if you are using Regenerate.
You feel your Heart Link with a mug of zombie's revenge fade away.
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
This, especially if you are using Regenerate.
You feel your Heart Link with a mug of zombie's revenge fade away.
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
DRPLAYER1
Re: Manipulate teaching
07/18/2013 09:00 PM CDT
>>>All of my combats are higher than my empathy
Relative to my empathy, I am already overhunting. It doesn't move at level (eels) and hardly moves when overhunting (beisswurms). If manipulation is supposed to teach roughly in the combat range, eels should teach effectively up to about 58 and beisswurms up to 70. These both fail to teach at 50. Maybe this isn't an issue at higher levels, but starting out you basically have to go up at least 3 steps on the combat ladder to use manipulate as a source of empathy exp. Maybe bloodwolves will start teaching.
MAGIC1300
Re: Manipulate teaching
07/24/2013 02:59 PM CDT
>humanoid vs. animal
This could be a factor. A really long time ago, I believe that it was harder to calm a humanoid than a beast, because humanoids are smarter. It could just be the difference between mentals on different critters too. For example, some things are harder to hide on than others, even if they teach weapons to the same level, which means you could learn hiding on one and not the other. Try different things along the critter ladder at your level, maybe you'll find something that teaches it.
This could be a factor. A really long time ago, I believe that it was harder to calm a humanoid than a beast, because humanoids are smarter. It could just be the difference between mentals on different critters too. For example, some things are harder to hide on than others, even if they teach weapons to the same level, which means you could learn hiding on one and not the other. Try different things along the critter ladder at your level, maybe you'll find something that teaches it.
DRPLAYER1
Re: Manipulate teaching
07/24/2013 04:59 PM CDT
I've gone up a couple steps now and I've found that empathy stops teaching about 5-10 ranks earlier than weapons (as compared to the barbarian I train with). I've noticed that the past two tiers, if I'm able to manipulate two creatures that tends to be the point where I stop learning. This may reflect my relatively poor mentals, who knows.
Eels - 48
Beisswurm - 72
Bloodwolves are moving it well now at 80.
