Lately people have been talking about Perceive Health as though it were supposed to be some sort of anti-stealth ability (including Melete talking about it being a part of the guild's "setup" with regard to dealing with stealthy attackers), so I wanted to make a couple of quick suggestions to make it actually fill that role.
1. Make it distinguish between hidden and unhidden creatures. This one is absolutely critical if "see if there's anything hidden, then throw around an area effect spell if there is" is going to be the guild's paradigm for stealth defense. Seeing "several relatively healthy presences" doesn't tell me whether or not I should consider using the aforementioned area spell. Ideally hidden creatures should feel different than hidden players.
2. Make it note how many creatures each line is talking about. Maybe I sense "two relatively healthy presences" and "three healthy, unseen presences" or whatever.
3. Make hidden beings which are engaged with the Empath show up differently. Maybe I see "one healthy, unseen, hostile presence" or something that doesn't sound so cumbersome.
4. Allow roundtime to be reduced to zero. If I'm going to have time to detect a threat and prepare a spell to thwart it before it can act on me, I can't afford to lose three seconds.
I hate the idea of making this our stealth defense paradigm, but if it's going to be so then let's at least try to make it somewhat playable.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
LAMBL
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Perceive Health
04/05/2012 04:03 PM CDT
>>Perceive health suggestions
The loss of RT probably isn't happening. In 3.0, keep in mind that combat won't be one-shot like it often is now, so getting off that first attack before the hider snipes you won't be nearly as critical.
Regarding your suggestions to clarify the messaging some, I could appreciate some further clarification, but only to a degree. Much like Earth Sense or the Cleric spell Revelation, perceive health is meant to be a guideline to help know when to flagrantly toss about those AOEs, but it is not meant to bypass standard perception v. stealth checks by telling you plain as day that someone is hidden and engaged to you.
The advantage of stealth is surprise, and it is earned with ranks. Perceive health is meant to be a bit of an equalizer with intuition and guesswork. It is not meant to negate the advantage of stealth.
The loss of RT probably isn't happening. In 3.0, keep in mind that combat won't be one-shot like it often is now, so getting off that first attack before the hider snipes you won't be nearly as critical.
Regarding your suggestions to clarify the messaging some, I could appreciate some further clarification, but only to a degree. Much like Earth Sense or the Cleric spell Revelation, perceive health is meant to be a guideline to help know when to flagrantly toss about those AOEs, but it is not meant to bypass standard perception v. stealth checks by telling you plain as day that someone is hidden and engaged to you.
The advantage of stealth is surprise, and it is earned with ranks. Perceive health is meant to be a bit of an equalizer with intuition and guesswork. It is not meant to negate the advantage of stealth.
LAMBL
Re: Perceive Health
04/05/2012 04:28 PM CDT
<<In 3.0, keep in mind that combat won't be one-shot like it often is now, so getting off that first attack before the hider snipes you won't be nearly as critical.>>
It is in mind, trust me. I can hardly wait for it. If nothing else, I'll be better poised to withstand a stealthy onslaught I guess. But I'm an Empath, I'm not getting off any attacks, let alone a first one.
I also understand that Perceive Health isn't meant to negate stealth. It actually isn't meant to have anything to do with stealth at all, and as far as I'm concerned it truly doesn't. People have been citing its existence as a reason that we can't have a real ability that's actually geared toward stealth defense though, so I'm trying to turn it into something that'll fill the role to some degree that's greater than zero.
I'd much rather have something that acts more like a buff and aids in thwarting stealthy actions directed toward me. Basically I think Empaths should have something to help defend against "actual stealth", and not just a slightly easier time dealing with "stupid stealth". It's also critical that some level of protection be gained against creatures that use stealth.
As another suggestion along this line, maybe actively using Perceive Health causes a pulsing pseudo-search to take place during the usage downtime that causes you to sense hidden presences that come into range during that time. This way it's not just a snapshot of the instant the ability was used, and you get a little better of an idea whether it's time to launch the nappy nuke.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
It is in mind, trust me. I can hardly wait for it. If nothing else, I'll be better poised to withstand a stealthy onslaught I guess. But I'm an Empath, I'm not getting off any attacks, let alone a first one.
I also understand that Perceive Health isn't meant to negate stealth. It actually isn't meant to have anything to do with stealth at all, and as far as I'm concerned it truly doesn't. People have been citing its existence as a reason that we can't have a real ability that's actually geared toward stealth defense though, so I'm trying to turn it into something that'll fill the role to some degree that's greater than zero.
I'd much rather have something that acts more like a buff and aids in thwarting stealthy actions directed toward me. Basically I think Empaths should have something to help defend against "actual stealth", and not just a slightly easier time dealing with "stupid stealth". It's also critical that some level of protection be gained against creatures that use stealth.
As another suggestion along this line, maybe actively using Perceive Health causes a pulsing pseudo-search to take place during the usage downtime that causes you to sense hidden presences that come into range during that time. This way it's not just a snapshot of the instant the ability was used, and you get a little better of an idea whether it's time to launch the nappy nuke.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
ASREA
Re: Perceive Health
04/05/2012 05:30 PM CDT
>2. Make it note how many creatures each line is talking about. Maybe I sense "two relatively healthy presences" and "three healthy, unseen presences" or whatever.
I don't see why this isn't already in place.
Good suggestions!
I don't see why this isn't already in place.
Good suggestions!
DR-MELETE
Re: Perceive Health
04/08/2012 09:38 PM CDT
Interesting suggestions -- when things get settled down backstage I can run some stuff by the Powers That Be and see what they think. That will also give us a chance to see the current perceive health + nappy nuke in action on a larger scale, to determine just how balanced (or not) it is.
Melete
[Turmis] I'm about to shoot beards in the face
Melete
[Turmis] I'm about to shoot beards in the face
