I'm sort of afraid to post this for two reasons. I'm afraid people will start doing it, and I'm afraid of backlash because for some reason the empaths here seem to like violence inside the infirmary while they're trying to heal people (or script). Anyway, on to my post...
So now that the main healing room in the empath guild is no longer safe, it is possible to kill an empath who is closed PvP and they won't get consent to retaliate (with their avenger, of course). This bothers me on three counts. 1.) closed PvP should mean, like, closed and stuff 2.) indirect killing ftl 3.) killing empaths, really?
Step 1:
Find a friend (or pay a friend) to let you beat the crap out of his vitality. Heck you can even pay an empath to heal his wounds (but not his vitality, this is important).
Step 2:
Find an Empath you don't particularly care for, and wait until they're alone or the only healer on duty in an un-safe room (in this case, the infirmary) and introduce your friend, who has severe vitality loss.
Step 3:
Allow the empath to do what empaths do, and start a vitality link with your friend.
Step 4: Kill your friend. Oh yeah, and the empath dies too.
Congrats, empath killer.
I couldn't get a definite answer from staff in game. Is this mechanics abuse? Is this how it's supposed to work? I understand this could happen anywhere, as most (or all, now?) rooms are unsafe. But people have been killing each other A LOT in the infirmary and I just started up an empath like last week! The danger that someone will swoop in and kill someone in one hit who I have a vitality link to is very real and has almost happened to me several times already. Also I'm not sure if maybe more experienced empaths can live through this, but I know for a fact my circle 10 empath would die immediately from trying to transfer -200% vitality.
If being able to kill closed PvP empaths and not be retaliated against is the intention of removing the safe status of the infirmary then so be it. I'm merely very concerned that this has been overlooked.
BUBBLEGOOSE
YUOREE
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 01:59 AM CDT
>Step 4: Kill your friend. Oh yeah, and the empath dies too.
Falling will break the transference link and then you don't die. Just an FYI.
Now, if you're not paying enough attention to notice them die... well. =)
Falling will break the transference link and then you don't die. Just an FYI.
Now, if you're not paying enough attention to notice them die... well. =)
GORYNEL
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 02:05 AM CDT
Pay attention and break the link or use vitality heal on yourself and you won't die.
NIKPACK
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 03:19 AM CDT
It sounds like mechanics abuse to do this purposefully though.
Nikpack
The gods are jerks. No, really.-Armifer
I don't think we ever take the training wheels off as players or gamemasters.-Inauri
Nikpack
The gods are jerks. No, really.-Armifer
I don't think we ever take the training wheels off as players or gamemasters.-Inauri
BUBBLEGOOSE
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 04:37 AM CDT
There's actually a pretty severe lag when using the fall verb. I have been spamming break all instead, and that's why I haven't died this way yet. It's very annoying, I'm about to stop taking vitality.
ROOFADOP
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 07:16 AM CDT
<<There's actually a pretty severe lag when using the fall verb.
You can also move out of the room. Leave the guild entirely, run a few paces away, it'll break that way too.
Necromancy brings out the Stupid in us all. -Armifer
You can also move out of the room. Leave the guild entirely, run a few paces away, it'll break that way too.
Necromancy brings out the Stupid in us all. -Armifer
FBC
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 07:59 AM CDT
action put break all when %Patient was just struck down
SMOOCHIEPOO
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 08:21 AM CDT
"Also I'm not sure if maybe more experienced empaths can live through this, but I know for a fact my circle 10 empath would die immediately from trying to transfer -200% vitality."
If you were able to heal it all in one big swoop, this would be an issue. You can't, so it's not. There's plenty of risk of over healing, but it's from vitality it's nothing but your own fault. As other people have said you can >break all, cast VH, not heal vitality if you don't have VH, Or - my personal favorite - Don't heal people's vitality when they're in the middle of a fight. That can/will/should get you killed far quicker then the vitality loss will. If you choose any of the first options and still get involved, vit transfers so slowly that this really shouldn't be an issue if you're paying even a little bit of attention. Plus you'll fall over into the "dying" state which will break the link and, unless you're bleeding, your vitality will come back on it's own and you'll just sleep it off.
I'm pretty sure that it's mechanics abuse to beat up another player just so they can be healed, so I'm sure that it would be abuse to do this for that purpose. But even if it's not, I can't see anyone taking the time or energy to do this, the results are slim to none and it honestly just seems rather pointless.
If you were able to heal it all in one big swoop, this would be an issue. You can't, so it's not. There's plenty of risk of over healing, but it's from vitality it's nothing but your own fault. As other people have said you can >break all, cast VH, not heal vitality if you don't have VH, Or - my personal favorite - Don't heal people's vitality when they're in the middle of a fight. That can/will/should get you killed far quicker then the vitality loss will. If you choose any of the first options and still get involved, vit transfers so slowly that this really shouldn't be an issue if you're paying even a little bit of attention. Plus you'll fall over into the "dying" state which will break the link and, unless you're bleeding, your vitality will come back on it's own and you'll just sleep it off.
I'm pretty sure that it's mechanics abuse to beat up another player just so they can be healed, so I'm sure that it would be abuse to do this for that purpose. But even if it's not, I can't see anyone taking the time or energy to do this, the results are slim to none and it honestly just seems rather pointless.
PUREHAND
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 09:26 AM CDT
If you die from transferring vitality, it's 100% your fault. You have to monitor that as an empath regardless of the situation.
>There's actually a pretty severe lag when using the fall verb.
The lag is just the period of time between when you fall and when you would have taken vitality, disease or an injury. So it still effectively stops transferrence at the time that you fall.
~ Purehand
>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.
... Jackpot.
>There's actually a pretty severe lag when using the fall verb.
The lag is just the period of time between when you fall and when you would have taken vitality, disease or an injury. So it still effectively stops transferrence at the time that you fall.
~ Purehand
>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.
... Jackpot.
MILTO
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 02:03 PM CDT
Also try this Take person vitality HALF
Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."
Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."
BUBBLEGOOSE
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 03:27 PM CDT
Ah, so it's already in the game mechanics to make you fall and break all the links you have so this DOESN'T kill you. Cool. That was my concern. Thank you all for the replies :)
And to whoever said "in the middle of people battling" I was talking about when people come in and kill someone out of the shadows or through a moongate in one hit. No warning. No scuffling. Dead. It has happened more than 5 times this week.
And to whoever said "in the middle of people battling" I was talking about when people come in and kill someone out of the shadows or through a moongate in one hit. No warning. No scuffling. Dead. It has happened more than 5 times this week.
DELVER
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 03:29 PM CDT
I'm curious if that -200% vit loss was a real situation with a live character or just an example. When I've seen negative numbers like that (or worse) it's been a corpse.
Asbhuan
Asbhuan
BUBBLEGOOSE
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 03:30 PM CDT
Sark, I was told because it's not a direct kill there is no consent. The person who told me this could have been wrong, but the GM I talked to in game didn't refute me when I proposed this scenario and said it was not consent. The GM could also have not known; it's a complicated way to kill someone.
SMOOCHIEPOO
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 03:54 PM CDT
I'm curious now. You say this has happened a handful of times this week, do you actually believe/have reason to think it was aimed at you, or do you think you might have just ended up in the middle of something? It just doesn't seem realistic to me to think that it's anything against the people doing the healing. If someone really is going through all that trouble to -maybe- end up with a dead empath, I would think it's mech abuse but probably too round-about to be consent.
SCHISSLERB1
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 04:15 PM CDT
If you're the guy that accused me of attempting to do this in the empath guild last night when I killed Caliza I would just like you to know that you're not important enough to setup such an elaborate kill on. Get over yourself, and break the link when someone dies or your own vitality drops lower than is comfortable.
You're only making yourself look bad with the conspiracy theories.
You're only making yourself look bad with the conspiracy theories.
FBC
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 05:14 PM CDT
take patient vitality half or part if you're that worried about it.
ASREA
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/16/2010 05:45 PM CDT
This is a non-issue. Break <patient>.
BUBBLEGOOSE
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/19/2010 06:01 PM CDT
No, no. This has happened to me because of wrong place wrong time. Absolutely. But was saying the possibility for abuse is there (which I've been informed doesn't actually work, so the point is now moot).
And whoever asked about the negative vitality, I've been talking about still having a vitality link on someone when they are one-shotted. So the negative vitality would be after they were dead. Sorry, I thought that part was obvious. negative vitality obviously means already dead.
And to clarify again, I wasn't aware that the game forced you to fall if you took too much vitality, or that if you type fall yourself the game breaks the link the next time you WOULD HAVE pulsed vitality. So it really is a non issue now as the scenario can never result in the empath's death, which was my concern. Thanks for all the feedback on this.
But this has happened to me so much, I'm going to put everyone who has done this to me on a no-heal list just because I think it's pretty inconsiderate. Even in-character, I think this makes sense for my Empath; he wouldn't want to heal people he had seen commit murder.
And whoever asked about the negative vitality, I've been talking about still having a vitality link on someone when they are one-shotted. So the negative vitality would be after they were dead. Sorry, I thought that part was obvious. negative vitality obviously means already dead.
And to clarify again, I wasn't aware that the game forced you to fall if you took too much vitality, or that if you type fall yourself the game breaks the link the next time you WOULD HAVE pulsed vitality. So it really is a non issue now as the scenario can never result in the empath's death, which was my concern. Thanks for all the feedback on this.
But this has happened to me so much, I'm going to put everyone who has done this to me on a no-heal list just because I think it's pretty inconsiderate. Even in-character, I think this makes sense for my Empath; he wouldn't want to heal people he had seen commit murder.
JMF90
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/19/2010 06:09 PM CDT
What if you were in the middle of healing a thief or a murder and a noble paladin was trying to bring them to justice?
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
PUREHAND
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/20/2010 08:24 PM CDT
>I wasn't aware that the game forced you to fall if you took too much vitality
It does?
~ Purehand
>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.
... Jackpot.
It does?
~ Purehand
>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.
... Jackpot.
LAMBL
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/20/2010 08:55 PM CDT
Well you fall when you're in a dying state, so unless you transfer such a big chunk of vitality loss that it bypasses the dying state and outright kills you, yes (side note: I don't know if that's possible or not, but if it is it needs to not be).
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
SMOOCHIEPOO
Re: infirmary no longer safe for vit transfer
06/20/2010 09:04 PM CDT
I still think it would be really really hard to kill yourself by transfering vitality, even if the game doesn't make you fall over in time. Even if you're only half paying attention you have plenty of time to cast VH or break the link, and you mentioned being low circle so you can't be transfering that much vit per pulse.
