Ok I don't know if anyone else has been noticing this but Empath's in general seem to have a bit of favoritism towards their guild more then the others. While Ranger's branch break and Moon Mage's mental blast were tweaked to make them fair... The Empath's Nissa's Binding wasn't tweaked at all. I realize that emapath's need a way to defend themselves though when used on another player of significant circle and mental strength, the target should have a chance to shrug off the mental attack. When a 60th circle empath with around 250 in all magic skills can sleep a 150th circle Moon Mage... there's a little something broken there don't you think?
The PVP for Empath's seems to be broken aswell. While they're supposed to lose their healing powers for killing another person(I think. I don't have an Empath.) I've seen many people being killed by Empath's using their Guardian's to do the work while the Empath had just finished NB'ing the victim. This is a good tactic for hunting though when facing other players? This is worse then Mental Blast ever was since this has no real chance of being thrown off unless the empath accidently sleeps themself aswell, which at a certain ammount of mana and skill, doesn't happen.
BLADEOFSTEAL
GORYNEL
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 02:29 AM CST
If you're standing around while an empath is prepping heart link and then nissa's binding, you deserve to die. The amount of prep work to even get NB off is ridiculous.
As a 150th moonie, you could just hide somewhere and wait for NB to wear off and destroy the empath.
As a 150th moonie, you could just hide somewhere and wait for NB to wear off and destroy the empath.
LORZELOPHIA
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 02:33 AM CST
First: NB is already slated to be rewritten. One thing to consider is that Nissa's Binding is a "Spell versus Stamina" contest. So the target of the spell uses strength and stamina to resist it. This is why many Moon Mages are vulnerable to it, since they're often extremely deficient in those areas, in favor of mental stats and discipline. The caster uses Discipline, Charisma and Intelligence, all of which are very important stats for Empaths, which they tend to train the hell out of. People at high levels, in general, tend not to train strength and stamina, so in a lot of ways sleeping a 70th moon mage is the same as sleeping a 150th moon mage.
Second: You don't get shock for using an avenger, since shock is a result of direct actions, not indirect ones. If we got shock for using avengers to kill people, we'd also get shock for using them to hunt. Shock doesn't differentiate between creatures and players. For more information, read here: http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Empathic_Shock
I do have to giggle a bit over the idea that Empaths are too powerful in PvP, though.
Skills Needed for Kaith Partani
Need 293 (500) Empathy.
Have at least 200 in #1 Armor (Light Chain).
Have at least 240 Evasion.
Have at least 160 Shield Usage.
Second: You don't get shock for using an avenger, since shock is a result of direct actions, not indirect ones. If we got shock for using avengers to kill people, we'd also get shock for using them to hunt. Shock doesn't differentiate between creatures and players. For more information, read here: http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Empathic_Shock
I do have to giggle a bit over the idea that Empaths are too powerful in PvP, though.
Skills Needed for Kaith Partani
Need 293 (500) Empathy.
Have at least 200 in #1 Armor (Light Chain).
Have at least 240 Evasion.
Have at least 160 Shield Usage.
DELVER
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 09:38 AM CST
Beyond what Lorz posted, NB is not an offensive spell. At present it is a helpful spell, but is contested as Lorz said.
It amazes me that people still have such misconceptions about what causes Empathic Shock and what Shock does to an Empath as far as the abilities/spells we temporarily lose under the current mechanics. This will also be changed in the not too distant future.
Recommendation: Avoid Empaths. We are obviously over-powered serial killers.
Asbhuan
Bottom Note (since it's not on the side): Temporary can be up to 17,520 playing hours without intervention. Killing is not an action to be taken lightly.
Even Lower Bottom Note: The time frame is based on the current stated cap of 2 years of IG RL time.
It amazes me that people still have such misconceptions about what causes Empathic Shock and what Shock does to an Empath as far as the abilities/spells we temporarily lose under the current mechanics. This will also be changed in the not too distant future.
Recommendation: Avoid Empaths. We are obviously over-powered serial killers.
Asbhuan
Bottom Note (since it's not on the side): Temporary can be up to 17,520 playing hours without intervention. Killing is not an action to be taken lightly.
Even Lower Bottom Note: The time frame is based on the current stated cap of 2 years of IG RL time.
JMF90
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 11:07 AM CST
>One thing to consider is that Nissa's Binding is a "Spell versus Stamina" contest. So the target of the spell uses strength and stamina to resist it. This is why many Moon Mages are vulnerable to it, since they're often extremely deficient in those areas, in favor of mental stats and discipline. The caster uses Discipline, Charisma and Intelligence, all of which are very important stats for Empaths, which they tend to train the hell out of. People at high levels, in general, tend not to train strength and stamina, so in a lot of ways sleeping a 70th moon mage is the same as sleeping a 150th moon mage.
This is the real issue, the stamina vs stamina contest is just a terrible contest. The average character scores significantly higher on the offensive side than the defensive side.
>Beyond what Lorz posted, NB is not an offensive spell.
Let's not start with this silly faulty logic again.
This is the real issue, the stamina vs stamina contest is just a terrible contest. The average character scores significantly higher on the offensive side than the defensive side.
>Beyond what Lorz posted, NB is not an offensive spell.
Let's not start with this silly faulty logic again.
LORZELOPHIA
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 11:10 AM CST
>>Let's not start with this silly faulty logic again.
It's already being rewritten to be offensive, so there's really no need to get into it again. It's buggy right now in a way that makes it barely useful anyway. I'll be glad to see the rewrite come down. I have better luck with shove + grapple.
Skills Needed for Kaith Partani
Need 293 (500) Empathy.
Have at least 200 in #1 Armor (Light Chain).
Have at least 240 Evasion.
Have at least 160 Shield Usage.
It's already being rewritten to be offensive, so there's really no need to get into it again. It's buggy right now in a way that makes it barely useful anyway. I'll be glad to see the rewrite come down. I have better luck with shove + grapple.
Skills Needed for Kaith Partani
Need 293 (500) Empathy.
Have at least 200 in #1 Armor (Light Chain).
Have at least 240 Evasion.
Have at least 160 Shield Usage.
DELVER
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 11:37 AM CST
>Let's not start with this silly faulty logic again.
It's current mechanics. If you can't handle the current mechanics you can/will get beaten.
When the re-write is out, one adjusts to what it is.
Simple statement. Nothing to do with faulty logic, nor a justification of the current mechanics. The mechanics are one thing now and will be something else later.
An argument against NB that invokes circle differential is not on sound footing when that isn't part of the contest.
Asbhuan
It's current mechanics. If you can't handle the current mechanics you can/will get beaten.
When the re-write is out, one adjusts to what it is.
Simple statement. Nothing to do with faulty logic, nor a justification of the current mechanics. The mechanics are one thing now and will be something else later.
An argument against NB that invokes circle differential is not on sound footing when that isn't part of the contest.
Asbhuan
JMF90
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 01:55 PM CST
>It's current mechanics. If you can't handle the current mechanics you can/will get beaten.
...
Just letting it go.
...
Just letting it go.
MATTSMOMMA
Re: Empath spells and PVP
12/11/2008 02:15 PM CST
He's right though
He says the reason the check is easy is because it's an offensive spell
You say it's faulty logic
It's not faulty logic at all, that's exactly why the check is so easy
I don't think he really voiced any support for it being the way he is or requested it stay that way, he stated a fact.
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
He says the reason the check is easy is because it's an offensive spell
You say it's faulty logic
It's not faulty logic at all, that's exactly why the check is so easy
I don't think he really voiced any support for it being the way he is or requested it stay that way, he stated a fact.
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
