How would we report someone for abuse of the removal mechanic. I witnessed someone basically just remove everyone in the guild tonight, one of whom I was in the process of healing, as well as others who were also being healed by other empaths. None of which as far as I could tell, warranted removal.
-TG, et al.
GRIM45
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/15/2008 10:11 PM CDT
You are allowed to remove someone from your guild for any reason or even no reason at all. Much like THUMP.
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
GRIM45
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/15/2008 10:15 PM CDT
>>You are allowed to remove someone from your guild for any reason or even no reason at all. Much like THUMP.
Sorry, that pretty much doesn't jive. Until I see it in red, I'm going to keep asking, and if then, will lobby for that to be changed.
-TG, et al.
Sorry, that pretty much doesn't jive. Until I see it in red, I'm going to keep asking, and if then, will lobby for that to be changed.
-TG, et al.
DGUTHRIE2
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/15/2008 10:26 PM CDT
>>You are allowed to remove someone from your guild for any reason or even no reason at all. Much like THUMP.<<
QFT
Life is too short to drink cheap beer.
QFT
Life is too short to drink cheap beer.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/15/2008 11:02 PM CDT
>> Sorry, that pretty much doesn't jive.
Sorry, but it does. Not liking it doesn't make it untrue.
I've been told that by a GM personally FYI, because it also doesn't grant consent (unlike thump) - which I found out the hard way.
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
Sorry, but it does. Not liking it doesn't make it untrue.
I've been told that by a GM personally FYI, because it also doesn't grant consent (unlike thump) - which I found out the hard way.
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
JCAGLEX1
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/16/2008 10:17 AM CDT
I thought it was kinda funny. Its blatantly obvious that you can remove people from your guild for any reason you want. If people are reporting, I hope GMs are doing the right thing and telling them they'll remove their ability to report if they keep it up. Otherwise they are just feeding a growing problem IMO.
BLUTURTL1428
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/17/2008 08:05 AM CDT
it would be nice if removal from the guild could be consent worthy if you are removed for no reason, but who would make that decision.
the guild is FULL of AFK people anymore, if they are running really annoying scripts i just move them to the library east ( i think i am directionally challenged) of the main room. no bucket, no juggling, no boxes, no classes, but safe.
the guild is FULL of AFK people anymore, if they are running really annoying scripts i just move them to the library east ( i think i am directionally challenged) of the main room. no bucket, no juggling, no boxes, no classes, but safe.
GRIM45
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/17/2008 12:38 PM CDT
>>the guild is FULL of AFK people anymore, if they are running really annoying scripts i just move them to the library east ( i think i am directionally challenged) of the main room. no bucket, no juggling, no boxes, no classes, but safe.
I agree with you there. It seemed that was the orignal intent, was removal of those afk, but it went beyond that at one point to the removal it seemed of EVERYONE who wasn't an empath, including those who were aware, talking, and activly being healed etc. I had no problem with the removal of the (seemingly) afk scripters, but when it over ran into those actually interacting with people was when I saw it as a problem.
-TG, et al.
I agree with you there. It seemed that was the orignal intent, was removal of those afk, but it went beyond that at one point to the removal it seemed of EVERYONE who wasn't an empath, including those who were aware, talking, and activly being healed etc. I had no problem with the removal of the (seemingly) afk scripters, but when it over ran into those actually interacting with people was when I saw it as a problem.
-TG, et al.
CLEMENCY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/17/2008 01:56 PM CDT
>>the guild is FULL of AFK people anymore
Yes. It sucks. Someone set up an area trap the other day and 75% of the room was unresponsive and ended up bleeding to death. I just walked off, I used to guild-sit so people had an awake Empath to heal them and now you'd have to pay me to be there.
I tried helping a novice Empath the other day, and he got so overwhelmed in the scroll/lost my whispers in the scroll that he just quit.
>>The funny thing is, doing this is probably more likely to get you in trouble with policy than just kicking a bunch of (ATK) people out of the guild.
Yeah :\ Don't even get me started on AFK scripting. It is so bad these days with little to no enforcement that it just pisses me off.
-Thief Clemency L'Envers
Yes. It sucks. Someone set up an area trap the other day and 75% of the room was unresponsive and ended up bleeding to death. I just walked off, I used to guild-sit so people had an awake Empath to heal them and now you'd have to pay me to be there.
I tried helping a novice Empath the other day, and he got so overwhelmed in the scroll/lost my whispers in the scroll that he just quit.
>>The funny thing is, doing this is probably more likely to get you in trouble with policy than just kicking a bunch of (ATK) people out of the guild.
Yeah :\ Don't even get me started on AFK scripting. It is so bad these days with little to no enforcement that it just pisses me off.
-Thief Clemency L'Envers
SAGESS
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/17/2008 04:06 PM CDT
I took a break for a year and it seems now that the scripting is even worse in the guild main room. I squelch juggling which cuts down on a lot of it, and foraging. But the scroll can still be a problem sometimes.
Nowadays the empath guild is for teaching rather than healing, it seems.
Nowadays the empath guild is for teaching rather than healing, it seems.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/17/2008 04:40 PM CDT
>> Nowadays the empath guild is for teaching rather than healing, it seems.
Welcome back to the good ol' days!
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
Welcome back to the good ol' days!
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
WANTNOMEAT
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 11:01 AM CDT
I've recently visited the empath guild after being gone a while. It was a complete joke. I felt bad for the people who needed healing. Most didn't know to go west into the infirmary and stood there asking for help from empath after empath who were "sleeping".
I don't usually mind that someone is AFK scripting, I'm not a monitor but I wish people would find some nice quiet place off on their own to explore non role playing in a role playing game. There's got to be more to the game then advancing ranks when you're not even there.
I think my biggest pet peeve and it's probably just me being bitchy but I hate when people script juggling or foraging, etc in a room where something of importance is going on like a tourney, ball, joust, stuff like that. Especially during sparring when empaths have to read what going on closely so people don't die. Just my bitch though. There's always someone trying to forage in a ball room or juggling during a spar.
I don't usually mind that someone is AFK scripting, I'm not a monitor but I wish people would find some nice quiet place off on their own to explore non role playing in a role playing game. There's got to be more to the game then advancing ranks when you're not even there.
I think my biggest pet peeve and it's probably just me being bitchy but I hate when people script juggling or foraging, etc in a room where something of importance is going on like a tourney, ball, joust, stuff like that. Especially during sparring when empaths have to read what going on closely so people don't die. Just my bitch though. There's always someone trying to forage in a ball room or juggling during a spar.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 02:00 PM CDT
My squelch list is massive (includes juggling, foraging, and healing messaging) and I still think the scroll in the Empaths' Guild is stupid.
But that's what REMOVE is for. :D
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
But that's what REMOVE is for. :D
Rev. Reene
"More I would, but Death invades me;
Death is now a welcome guest.
When I am laid in earth,
May my wrongs create
No trouble in thy breast.
Remember me, but ah!
Forget my fate."
- Dido's Lament
CLEMENCY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 06:36 PM CDT
>>I felt bad for the people who needed healing.
I've noticed a significant increase in the number of people gwething for an Empath, versus being able to find one at the Guild. Sign of the times, I guess.
-Criminal Clemency L'Envers
I've noticed a significant increase in the number of people gwething for an Empath, versus being able to find one at the Guild. Sign of the times, I guess.
-Criminal Clemency L'Envers
BLUTURTL1428
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 07:48 PM CDT
just wondering... if we remove some one that is running a generally obnoxious script, then tackle them outside the guild to knock them down and a caravan runs them over and we heal them, repeatedly... is that mech abuse? and does it give consent?
MAEROR
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 08:30 PM CDT
<<But that's what REMOVE is for. :D >>
Indeed. I don't feel it's abuse if an empath feels her guild is being overrun and decides to do a bit of housecleaning. Of course that's my opinion.
And I agree that the scroll is ridiculous, even with an impressive list of squelches.
Indeed. I don't feel it's abuse if an empath feels her guild is being overrun and decides to do a bit of housecleaning. Of course that's my opinion.
And I agree that the scroll is ridiculous, even with an impressive list of squelches.
MOD-SIDATURA
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic *Post Hidden*
09/18/2008 08:37 PM CDT
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IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 08:38 PM CDT
I think labeling anything as 'abuse' depending on whether or not you like it personally is ridiculous personally.
Unless you can objectively come up with some kind of operational definition of 'abuse' then it's...not. It's just something you personally might not agree with.
Rev. Reene
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America
Unless you can objectively come up with some kind of operational definition of 'abuse' then it's...not. It's just something you personally might not agree with.
Rev. Reene
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America
LORZELOPHIA
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/18/2008 09:31 PM CDT
>>Just wondering... if we remove some one that is running a generally obnoxious script, then tackle them outside the guild to knock them down and a caravan runs them over and we heal them, repeatedly... is that mech abuse? and does it give consent?
It may or may not be mech abuse, but it's definitely a bad idea. It would suck to get a warning over something like that. I could see this being construed as unconsented PvP by some GMs. It really depends on who you get in the consult. A lot of people who break policy -- AFK scripting, unconsented PvP, and so on -- prove surprisingly willing to report someone else who bends the rules. In fact, this has generally been my experience, so tread carefully.
But yes, it would definitely give the person consent -- advancing someone gives them consent, as does tackling them.
Removing someone from the guild doesn't give consent by itself, but I've had some rather memorable interactions happen after people attacked me because they thought it gave them consent. (None of which involved me reporting them to the GM's) If you train your combats, nothing is more rewarding than killing someone who probably only attacked you because they thought you'd be easy to take down. Even just their failure to kill you is awfully sweet. And so what if they do kill you? Killing an Empath is nothing to brag about, and makes the person look stupid and petty. Basically, you can't lose.
-- Player of Szrael
It may or may not be mech abuse, but it's definitely a bad idea. It would suck to get a warning over something like that. I could see this being construed as unconsented PvP by some GMs. It really depends on who you get in the consult. A lot of people who break policy -- AFK scripting, unconsented PvP, and so on -- prove surprisingly willing to report someone else who bends the rules. In fact, this has generally been my experience, so tread carefully.
But yes, it would definitely give the person consent -- advancing someone gives them consent, as does tackling them.
Removing someone from the guild doesn't give consent by itself, but I've had some rather memorable interactions happen after people attacked me because they thought it gave them consent. (None of which involved me reporting them to the GM's) If you train your combats, nothing is more rewarding than killing someone who probably only attacked you because they thought you'd be easy to take down. Even just their failure to kill you is awfully sweet. And so what if they do kill you? Killing an Empath is nothing to brag about, and makes the person look stupid and petty. Basically, you can't lose.
-- Player of Szrael
BLUTURTL1428
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/19/2008 05:59 AM CDT
i really was kidding about that. as tempting as it may be when people are bouncing in and out of the room, hiding juggling, foraging, making huge scrolls, i would never actually do it, dragging them into another room is usually enough.
i think i have been involved in the removal of people from the guild twice, once because the person was being a butt to a friend and once because they were being a butt to me. when they came back to try to kill me outside the guild later it was very rewarding to be able to dodge and block... as far as i am concerned if i remove you from the guild for no reason then you have every right to kill me later or at least try since that would be a pretty appropriate ic response in my opinion, that would be where my consent statement comes in.
my biggest complaint/concern is pretty much what has already been said about people being afk, listening to classes, and running scripts that clutter the room to the point it is almost impossible to heal, in one of the two rooms in the game where healing is most appropriate.
i think i have been involved in the removal of people from the guild twice, once because the person was being a butt to a friend and once because they were being a butt to me. when they came back to try to kill me outside the guild later it was very rewarding to be able to dodge and block... as far as i am concerned if i remove you from the guild for no reason then you have every right to kill me later or at least try since that would be a pretty appropriate ic response in my opinion, that would be where my consent statement comes in.
my biggest complaint/concern is pretty much what has already been said about people being afk, listening to classes, and running scripts that clutter the room to the point it is almost impossible to heal, in one of the two rooms in the game where healing is most appropriate.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/19/2008 08:51 AM CDT
>> as far as i am concerned if i remove you from the guild for no reason then you have every right to kill me later or at least try since that would be a pretty appropriate ic response in my opinion, that would be where my consent statement comes in.
This is a good attitude to have, but policy-wise there's no consent there.
I've been warned for it for attacking a person because I had just logged on in the guild, hadn't done anything, and was promptly removed by people I didn't even know with no explanation. It was explained in very clear terms to me that being removed from a guild for any reason whatsoever or no reason at all is not consent, period.
Rev. Reene
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America
This is a good attitude to have, but policy-wise there's no consent there.
I've been warned for it for attacking a person because I had just logged on in the guild, hadn't done anything, and was promptly removed by people I didn't even know with no explanation. It was explained in very clear terms to me that being removed from a guild for any reason whatsoever or no reason at all is not consent, period.
Rev. Reene
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America
BLUTURTL1428
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/19/2008 10:50 AM CDT
were you reported? i mean they removed you randomly and then reported you for retaliating that is kinda crappy. (i was thinking in my opinion but really i think everyone would agree on that unless the removal was some wierd error that they immeadiately tried to explain and you smashed them in the face anyway...)
DELVER
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/19/2008 01:06 PM CDT
>I've been warned for it for attacking a person because I had just logged on in the guild, hadn't done anything, and was promptly removed by people I didn't even know with no explanation.
Pardon me for just highlighting this part. I am going on the premise that this is the condensed version of the incident, but I am genuinely curious why you feel/felt you were owned an explanation. Did they perhaps know the character by reputation? Was your response commensurate with the action of removal?
Asbhuan
Pardon me for just highlighting this part. I am going on the premise that this is the condensed version of the incident, but I am genuinely curious why you feel/felt you were owned an explanation. Did they perhaps know the character by reputation? Was your response commensurate with the action of removal?
Asbhuan
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/19/2008 04:41 PM CDT
>> I am going on the premise that this is the condensed version of the incident
I described it as it happened, up to the killing. I did skip giving an account of the consult, which I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do on the boards anyway.
After all was said and done it struck me as a deliberate attempt at report-baiting, for which removing people is doubtlessly effective judging by the experiences related by Empaths in this thread.
Rev. Reene
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America
I described it as it happened, up to the killing. I did skip giving an account of the consult, which I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do on the boards anyway.
After all was said and done it struck me as a deliberate attempt at report-baiting, for which removing people is doubtlessly effective judging by the experiences related by Empaths in this thread.
Rev. Reene
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, you move.'"
- Captain America
SCHULTZS3
Re: Abuse of the removal mechanic
09/27/2008 09:24 PM CDT
>>A lot of people who break policy -- AFK scripting, unconsented PvP, and so on -- prove surprisingly willing to report someone else who bends the rules.<<
You know what they say, we hate in others that which we find in ourselves. Or something to that effect. :)
You know what they say, we hate in others that which we find in ourselves. Or something to that effect. :)
