I've been thinking about this since Heiu mentioned it briefly in the Altar Creation part of the Clerical Vision. It would be a great way to finally bring religion to life.

I think we should start with a relatively simpler system where every region has one primary and two secondary patron deities assigned to it. When I say 'region', I mean the ones distance-related systems like gweths rely on. Because it's not realistic to find a region for each of the 39 immortals in a way that makes sense, all aspects of any given patron deity would also be considered patrons in that region for mechanical purposes.

After such a system is in place, there could be abilities and rituals for Clerics and Paladins which utilize it.

In the distant future, altar creation and player worshipping could affect the influences. This way, when Asketi strikes a major city for irreverence every year, it would be based on truth instead of arbitrariness.
As to what kind of actual effects/blessings a deity's influence would bring... That would be something extremely difficult to determine and balance, but not terribly necessary.

As part of the initial system, a Cleric would be granted the Perceive Divine ability at 20th circle, which lets them sense (1) the patron deity of the region, (2) two lesser influences, (3) followers of the patron deity present within the region. This ability would use/teach PP and Theosophy, and could give tiered information similar to Recall Immortal.

>perceive divine
You sense that Harawep's influence swathes this region like vast, intricate webs. Your mind's eye reveals you the mortal souls who add more silky strands to the goddess' spectral webwork as symbolic embodiments of Her.
You are able to identify the spiritual spiders as Smegul, Teel and Bob.
You also sense the lesser influences of Everild and Alamhif.

In a room dedicated to a specific deity:

>perceive divine
You sense that this is a sacred place.
The presence of Ushnish is overwhelming here, and you are unable to sense any other influences.

Some examplary regional influences I would imagine:

	Patron	Lesser	Lesser
Crossing	Truffenyi	Tamsine	Glythtide
Aesry	Eluned	Peri'el	Faenella
Vela*'*tohr Region	Asketi	Zachriedek	Kuniyo
Zaulfung	Urrem'tier	none	none

~Aeth

>When I say 'region', I mean the ones distance-related systems like gweths rely on.

Personally, I think gweths have a farther reach than I would like to see a specific deity's reach. There are many cities in gweth range (most of the time) and I don't think it'd be unrealisitic for each city (and surrounding area) to worship a deity. (Not that I am trying to find a way for all 39 Eastern gods to be represented, since Bambina could really care less.)

Otherwise, I really like the idea.

Bambina

>>I think it'd be worth considering the possibility of having influence diminish as it moves away from the center; gweths appear to do this by some kind of faintness gradient. I've never tested.

They don't. {faintly} just means that your k gweth picked up on the thought. It doesn't at all matter where you are in the realms so long as you are in the same gweth zone as your listeners. You and I could be standing in two adjacent rooms, but if those two rooms straddle a gweth boundary I'd never hear what you were thinking and vice versa. On the flipside, you could be on one border and I could be way over on the opposite border and we could hear each other as loudly as if we were standing in the same room.

J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html

>Well, knowing where some of those boundaries actually are, I'll believe you. It still feels like a gradient exists, but I'm probably wrong.

The world is set up in a grid. The approximate grid regions can be viewed in the coordinate map available under the useful programs at heroiklim.com. There are some rooms that are wonky (eg Kuniyo's shrine in Lang being in the same coordinate region as zaulfung) but for the most part natural "boundaries" (eg rivers, lakes, chasms) are definent grid borders, while others tend to have some sort of regional significance (eg the border between Zoluren and Therengia on the NTR is a grid border).

A jadeite gweth will recieve thoughts from other j-band gweths within the grid you are in. A kyanite gweth transmits and recieves thoughts in the same grid, and bordering grids. This can be demonstrated most easily by standing one room away from each other at the Zoluren-Therengia border on the NTR and transmitting thoughts. If either of you aren't wearing a Kyanite gweth you will not hear their thoughts at all. If you are both wearing K-band gweths you will hear their thoughts (faintly). When a thought is recieved as "faintly" it means you aren't in the same immediate grid, but are instead in a boardering grid location from the sender.

Hope that helps.


Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal

---

Take these chances
Place them in a box until a quieter time
Lights down, you up and die

I'm a big fan of altar creation and deity influences, and all of the suggestions under this topic thus far.

I was hoping for titles to come into play if you've managed to sway a large amount of populace to one of your Gods as well (under the suggestion that preaching would convert unseen NPC population)...

Perhaps gaining devotion when one of the dear supplicants comes and kisses my ring? ;P

But really though, assuming there's a Huldah altar in the Crossing temple, does anyone know what I would offer to get an orb? It'd be much appreciated.

I don't remember if I posted this on this thread, but this is a sorely incomplete proposal that I doubt I'm going to manage to get much more done on. Now that I'm thinking about it, I seem to recall having a book back in California with altars and D&D... but that's inaccessible for the next three to six months. Anyways,

http://www.rangerrawb.com/wiki/index.php/Proposal_for_Altar_Creation

Consider it fodder for inspiration. And you're welcome to speculate why I consider it incomplete. It's not because of the altar powers list. =P


-- Holy Scholar Diarik Erasto, Arcane Researcher, in search of spiritweaving.
http://www.rangerrawb.com/wiki/index.php/User:Diarik
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pensive-spirit/

>I think everyone should get the ability to devote themselves to a diety and have various reasons to find a cleric of their deity.

This idea I like.

>Can't think of any now though

A few (RP only) reasons off the top of my head:

1) Their god would smile upon for seeking the assistance of a Cleric so devoted; or frown upon them gaining assisatance from one not so inclined to worship said god.

2) A Cleric of said god may be able to give rituals, quests, etc. in that gods name. (As Bambina, I've written several rituals and quests to please the Rakash gods.)

Sorry I didn't think of any "real" reasons. In my defense I don't see how it would be fair to gain special devotions from Eastern deities and not also the Western/Southern ones.

Bambina

I actually just came across something that follows this rather closely...



GM Lirrak
Cleric Liaison

Much as it pains me to agree with someone called "teh necro" in a cleric forum, yes. Do tell. =P


-- Holy Scholar Diarik Erasto, Arcane Researcher, in search of spiritweaving.
http://www.rangerrawb.com/wiki/index.php/User:Diarik
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pensive-spirit/

As a cleric, yes. He does.


-- Holy Scholar Diarik Erasto, Arcane Researcher, in search of spiritweaving.
http://www.rangerrawb.com/wiki/index.php/User:Diarik
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pensive-spirit/

>>Perfect example... if we were in Rome (during the period this phrase comes from), you would be the one accepting my gods, not the other way around.

Good point, however..If your doing as the romans do then you accept theirs, they accept yours, and everyone's happy. Now you have the option of building an altar/temple to your old god, or just using the one already available. Since you've accepted theirs, you'd probably use what's currently available so you can get back to training..err work.

>not everyone accepted the roman gods, either. i believe we fought a big war with them over that... <see the writings of josephus for details>...

That would be because the statements I and poster Volcanus made are both only partially true. Volcanus and I were assuming that everyone (Elanthia and Rome) is polytheistic. I will assume you are speaking of Flavius Josephus and therefore the war you are talking about was between a monotheism and a polytheism. In which case, Rome would not have accepted the "God of the Jews" (or any other monotheistic god) because it contradicts their beliefs.

And to stay on topic and not get warned for talking too much about RL... I really do think there should be a way to declare yourself as a follower of a specific god. Perhaps as easy as stating the name of the god you wish to be known as a follower of in a certain place to as complicated as having to complete a quest in honor of said god; maybe certain gods don't need to be satiated, only sought. Also I believe choosing a god should be something you can only do after a certain circle, and once chosen you have to keep that god (and/or set of titles) for so many circles before you can declare another; but with the option to not have to clear or redo whatever was necessary to claim that god as your own to begin with if you want to keep the same god. I hope that makes sense, I'm still half asleep.

Bambina

>>I really do think there should be a way to declare yourself as a follower of a specific god.

They're working on it. =)

>>Perhaps as easy as stating the name of the god you wish to be known as a follower of in a certain place to as complicated as having to complete a quest in honor of said god; maybe certain gods don't need to be satiated, only sought.

I would recommend a full-blown system of tiers. Example (stolen liberally from AD&D 2nd ed., The Castle Guide, which was clearly and painfully drawn from the Catholic system...):

Lay Brethren - Declare yourself without sacrifice.
Acolyte - A minor quest or sacrifice, similar to those to get Tamsine's or Eluned's communes. (Entry level for Clerics.)
Postulant - Performs god-specific devotion rituals once a month. (Highest attainable level by non-Clerics.)
Priest - Performed a quest akin to the second Eluned commune or even conceivably akin to the Infusion quest. Rituals are performed bimonthly.
Curate - Blah, blah, I'm out of steam.

This feels like something I could conceivably expand on. I may or may not be up to that... <ponders> Maybe. I have a life in RL these days...

>>Also I believe choosing a god should be something you can only do after a certain circle

Benefits should only come after a certain circle, but I see no reason why a novice couldn't specify their worship from the beginning.

>>once chosen you have to keep that god (and/or set of titles) for so many circles before you can declare another

I don't like that, because it equates guild advancement with potential change in beliefs. I'd rather have a timer, make it as painful as six months to a year and starting over at the bottom of the hierarchy (no benefits), as a cleric may actually stagnate in their advancement in the guild due to a faltering belief in their chosen deity and wish to change their devotion.

Hm.

I think I will start working on a system for this. No idea how far I'll get. Bambina, specifically, and any others who are interested... please feel free to drop me a line at my play.net address or on AIM (DiarikDR) and I'll notify you when I have something worth looking at. With luck, and a bit of devotion, that'll be the end of the week.

It's about time I dug back into my research on world religions anyways. I'm painfully ignorant. =(


-- Holy Scholar Diarik Erasto, Arcane Researcher, in search of spiritweaving.
http://www.rangerrawb.com/wiki/index.php/User:Diarik
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pensive-spirit/