Spirit hitting spells have never really found a niche. They have been a problem in the past, currently there is not really much a person can do to defend against them. finding the balance for the spells was always the issue. If they make them powerful enough to be useful, then no one else really has a defense against them. If they make them weaken them down much, they become useless. Spirit combat as a niche for clerics sounds great as a concept but has never really had a balanced application that i know of. The whole forced depart thing now is over the top. As long as they are going for balance, really hope they take a look at two of our other spells as well. Rev and PS.... The massive undead stunning spell that don't stun undead...

>>Debilitation that isn't subject to diminishing returns and can be Hydra Hexed so it's always applied.

>>Ability to boost almost all stats simultaneously with help from a couple of Paladin spells.

Diminishing returns only apply to Crowd Control which none of the spells that are put into Hydra Hex (Male, CoZ, Uncurse) actually do. Also if using Hydra Hex they can't use SA since they're both cyclic.

Sure with Paladin spells on us 7/8 stat buffs but using paladin spells on say a War Mage can have 6/8. Requires a paladin for either case and they're heavy to carry around.

>>Fixing OM to not take Paladin spells is probably a big one.

Yeah that is broken and should be fixed but at least that just leads to a duration issue for non Cleric spells, most of them you can't put in the orb though.

>>AE as well, for partially the same problem but also doing too much damage for a multistrike in general IIRC.

AE isn't a multistrike its a pulsing spell and I believe the damage and spirit cost was already lowered quite a bit already in the past.

as far as fixing OM to only take cleric spells.... I can see that if the Gm's decide to for balance.

The feeble old swamp shaman

>>>> The biggest nerf to this spell was it is no longer DFA.

I can't say this enough, but I am fairly certain that in many circumstances being DFA is a drawback. DFA spells now give an Evasion bonus in addition to bypassing shield defence. This means that if the target has more evasion than shield it is possible that they are actually harder to hit with a DFA spell. Paladins are the only guild that learn shield faster than evasion. Many creatures don't even have a shield defence. I would test this with Cleric spells, but my cleric doesn't have HE so I can't do that comparison. HE, in addition, only affects cursed and creatures and does bonus damage against them so it would not be a fair comparison. I have tested this on my Moon Mage with Burn vs PD at comparable mana against non shield using creatures. Based on the damage done, I would use PD pretty much every time. The fact that PD only does physical damage actually puts it at a disadvantage and it still comes out ahead.

>>>> HE is absolutely absurd in PvP, trust me. So is SA, albeit in different ways. Both are DFA too.

Oh, I believe you. I just don't think that it is the fact that they are DFA that makes them powerful. HE, for example, ignores amour and does extra damage against forsaken necros. SA is a cyclic spirit attack that cannot be dispelled, uses a non evasion/shield defence and continues to attack when you leave the room. On top of that it pits the clerics' spirit against their foes, which probably puts their target at a disadvantage, and the cleric can cast auspice and improve their spirit regeneration. Once again, being DFA isn't they key factor here.

Not really sure about how HE currently works but i will test it some. Used to be the bread and butter spell for clerics. It ignored armor and shield and basically hit corporal undead with a bonus something like a blessed weapon would have over a regular weapon. basically it was designed to be <big hammer> spell vs undead that assured clerics and clerical magic was top dog vs undead that could be hit with regular weapons. Not sure if that idea has carried over and the spell still gets the big bang for the buck effect.... considering it's limitations I just don't see a solid case for this spell being OP vs anyone but a necro. Considering the lore and everything behind it, I am good with cleric's being the strongest vs necro.

>> Considering the lore and everything behind it, I am good with cleric's being the strongest vs necro.

Not complaining about that at all (really), just saying that DFA does not take away from this aspect in any way. If you can hit a mob or Necromancer with it, you can murder the hell out of them.

Same with SA, but again, for different reasons. Specifically because even a small hit will let the spell stick to them and at that point you're whittling down a resource you are likely to have way, way more of.

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Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs

>>Same with SA, but again, for different reasons. Specifically because even a small hit will let the spell stick to them and at that point you're whittling down a resource you are likely to have way, way more of.

That's not a particularly reasonable line of thought. That's like saying nerf backstab because I can't beat the stealth/perception contest as a survival tert guild. Sure I can, maybe not fully but enough that its not a full detriment, with enough work. You can too by upping your Charisma and defenses. You might not think it's viable to do so but its still an option.

Normally one forgets there's a spirit attribute until a cleric reminds you it exists. Does it actually do anything besides interact with the depart timer and kill you?

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Your search-fu is pig dung!

>>even if spirit damage is disproportionately potent right now

If you don't train Charisma because you feel its lackluster then yes it certainly will be that way.

> because even a brushing hit will allow SA to hit you and follow you around doing damage

If the spell is cast on you then its cast on you, same is if you're 1st or 200th, barring wards or barriers that will make the spell fail. Just the nature of the spell (It being TM and all). Also the brushing hits are more detrimental to the cleric then the person its cast on, regardless of whether it works or not we still take the spirit hit.

Your spirit lashes out at XXXX!
The essences collide harmlessly with each other. The exertion leaves your spirit feeling slightly weaker.

Spirit damage is out of whack at the moment and one of the things we need to assess. It's always been a problem, frankly, but it's one that's difficult to solve short of removing it entirely (which, while it'd be better than the current situation, is probably a bit more extreme than I'd like).

We have a change for the OM orb incoming to limit it to Cleric spells only.

I am aware of AE and need to spend some quality time tuning it in the future. It's a fine concept and we want to do more DoTs, but this may not be a good model for it.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

>(I mainly just want to scare small clerics with my 100 charisma.)
Hah!

>>Hey - if you think AE needs to be fixed thats fine, but I hope if you do decide to do that, that you take a look at our other Direct damage TM spells, because they kind of stink at level and dont do a whole lot of damage.

FF and Horn are standard TM spells. TM as a whole needs some TLC, but that's not a Cleric specific issue.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

FIRST... THANK YOU for the work on PS...

second the stun duration seems to be capping easy. granted i just tested on fiends and DS and i could get the same stun for min prep as i could for 70 mana. not saying that is bad just early testing. I will test more in a bit. I want to see if it works vs hiding creatures like lachs and also make sure it works vs hiding necro's that it should work on.

I really enjoying messing around testing this stuff. PS is a very effective spell. However when you mix it with Halo in a hunting area is like playing golf. seeing what direction you can knock them into....

>cast
You gesture.
Glimmering cracks of silver spiderweb the walls, leaking a misty light that collects overhead. For but a single instant, the light floods through the area like a cascade of holy water, casting the night into a dreamscape astir with shadowed silhouettes and heavenly blaze.
A Maelshyvean shadow beast is moderately stunned!
A Maelshyvean shadow beast is moderately stunned!
A Maelshyvean shadow beast is moderately stunned!
A lesser dusky-scaled basilisk is moderately stunned!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>
Fractals of pale light materialize in a cascading pattern around you, outlining the faint beginnings of a complex gyre. With a bestial moan, shafts of brilliant white light erupt from the ether, illuminating the pattern as if it were lifeblood sustaining the vein. The wall of light echoes outward rapidly, leaving a misty white halo to shroud you in its wake.

The ring of light smashes into a Maelshyvean shadow beast, forcefully pushing it from melee to missile range, away from you.
Radiation lightly abrades its flesh.
It is hammered brutally by the lucent force as it is sent flying to the northeast!

The ring of light smashes into a Maelshyvean shadow beast, forcefully pushing it from melee to missile range, away from you.
Radiation heavily abrades its flesh.
It is hammered brutally by the lucent force as it is sent flying to the southwest!

The ring of light smashes into a Maelshyvean shadow beast, forcefully pushing it from melee to missile range, away from you.
Radiation heavily abrades its flesh.
It is hammered brutally by the lucent force as it is sent flying to the northeast!

The ring of light smashes into a lesser dusky-scaled basilisk, forcefully pushing it from melee to missile range, away from you.
Radiation heavily abrades its flesh.
It is hammered brutally by the lucent force as it is sent flying to the east!