Was wondering what kind of stat allocations people would recommend. I get all of the combat stats and whatnot, but i'm curious about what benefits discipline and charisma give clerics. 95% of my time in DR is spent playing an NMU as well, so this has been a pretty fun change so far, but i also lack a lot of know-how with this kind of stuff. I know mentals will contribute to spell effectiveness to an extent, and with charisma affecting spirit health, i wonder if it would help a cleric cast certain spells like rezz or soul attrition maybe. I usually start my characters off by training strength stamina and discipline so i dont fall over while trying to swing a sword and for the bit of extra concentration. I'm at a comfortable level with those now, so wondering where to go from there.
DYMASCUS
BLACKRUSSIAN
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 12:11 PM CDT
Everyone has their thoughts, and everyone thoughts are all going to differ. If you enjoy a little pvp, I believe your stats should go a certain way. If you really don't care about stat contest since you mostly doing critters, then you go another way. I believe clerics magic is a huge strength. Charisma is good to have for spirit health, but wisdom factors more into the contest stats than charisma, but if contested isn't the problem, but dieing before your oppenent does via spirit health then charisma is the way to go. Disc is a good foundation for more contested spells. Plus Disc, intel, and wisdom are all for learning. Stamina is a stat that is sometimes ignored as far as contested spells go. There some strong spells that fortitude protects against, and stamina is the primary in it. I am not a fan of strength, not a fan of agility. Get them to a place that they are enough to just hit the stuff you fighting, and enough so they hurting them. Reflex probably should be higher than the strength and agility, since it has very good defensive properties.
In the way I think and play. This is how I rate the stats. Disc, wisdom, intel are in the top tier. Then as far as tier two I go with charisma and stamina, then tier three is reflex, tier four is agility, and tier five is strength. But this is for a heavy magic pvp stance, and helps a lot against folks who are very physical stat oriented, which is a lot of folks.
Other thing most folks do is go mentals fairly heavy out of the gate, then work the others up to catch them. Mostly run to 30s on mentals, let other catch, then 40, then let others catch, then so on and so on.
In the way I think and play. This is how I rate the stats. Disc, wisdom, intel are in the top tier. Then as far as tier two I go with charisma and stamina, then tier three is reflex, tier four is agility, and tier five is strength. But this is for a heavy magic pvp stance, and helps a lot against folks who are very physical stat oriented, which is a lot of folks.
Other thing most folks do is go mentals fairly heavy out of the gate, then work the others up to catch them. Mostly run to 30s on mentals, let other catch, then 40, then let others catch, then so on and so on.
CLERIXHAX
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 12:23 PM CDT
I go with the heavy mentals approach. Most, if not all of our spells are magic vs fortitude so having high wisdom, intelligence and discipline aid with the power of your curses. It also influences your learning rate like was previously mentioned. I took Strength up enough to carry all my weapons/armor and bundles without incurring too much of a burden and won't touch it for a while. If you're interested in just training as quick as possible I believe this is the best route. If you plan to PvP, you may want to go for a more balanced approach if you want to have decent saves. If you're glass cannoning it, the high mentals approach is also a valid decision due to the influence mentals have on Targetted Magic.
BLACKRUSSIAN
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 12:37 PM CDT
You don't have to be a glass cannon because you focus on mentals, and other stats that help contest spells folks are using against you. As far as defense goes, you don't need to worry about vs reflex because mostly those are all CCs spells. My cleric has had no issues fighting folks 20-40 circles above him, and yes he is 100+. Strength, agility, and reflex are 30. He is fairly hard to hit still, and don't get hurt very much. He even beats clerics that are 10-30 circles higher. Their main issue is they are balanced. That allows my cleric to exploit spell contests that use his mentals, and he still contends against spells that requires their mentals. Vs will and fortitude. Primary stats on contested spells pack a pretty big punch. Don't neglect charisma and wisdom. You certainly want to protect against spirit attacks, even if you don't use them. You mostly want to make sure you last long enough to help counter it.
But I do agree the previous poster on most accounts, just not the fact that you have to be balanced in pvp. I prefer to fight against folks who are balanced in stats. Allows me a better opening. And as far as mentals effect TM, I don't think they do that yet. Unless i missed the posting that it went live, I think it still just in test server right now. I believe agility is currently the TM stat, even though its a bug, and once the fix is live it no longer be that. So don't spec based on the bug.
But I do agree the previous poster on most accounts, just not the fact that you have to be balanced in pvp. I prefer to fight against folks who are balanced in stats. Allows me a better opening. And as far as mentals effect TM, I don't think they do that yet. Unless i missed the posting that it went live, I think it still just in test server right now. I believe agility is currently the TM stat, even though its a bug, and once the fix is live it no longer be that. So don't spec based on the bug.
DARPISECK
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 01:57 PM CDT
Suppose I'll weigh in on this -- Seg's stats (at around 120th circle) are all 50+, with discipline and charisma pushed significantly higher.
Granted, he plays with a lot of different weapons, has a survival average of nearly 400 (pre-3.0 he had more total survival ranks than magic ranks; the re-balancing kinda screwed that whole notion up), and is <was once> very PVP-heavy (haven't messed a lot with it post 3.0).
But in 2.0, Seg was extremely capable of beating folks with 100s of ranks more in weapon and defensive ranks with a fair amount of ease. Charisma contributes a lot to the success of curses (which I don't believe has changed with 3.0). Also, with all of his physicals at 50+ (and boosted another 15 from capped Benediction), he just doesn't go down easily at all.
I'm likely not the best person to ask, as I tend to train wide rather than high in any skill-based game, not just DR. But the summary of my two cents is stay balanced and pick what best fits your character (in my case, DISC for hiding and resistances, CHAR for curses, spirit health and resistances).
Segmere Freat
Baron's Own Militia
Granted, he plays with a lot of different weapons, has a survival average of nearly 400 (pre-3.0 he had more total survival ranks than magic ranks; the re-balancing kinda screwed that whole notion up), and is <was once> very PVP-heavy (haven't messed a lot with it post 3.0).
But in 2.0, Seg was extremely capable of beating folks with 100s of ranks more in weapon and defensive ranks with a fair amount of ease. Charisma contributes a lot to the success of curses (which I don't believe has changed with 3.0). Also, with all of his physicals at 50+ (and boosted another 15 from capped Benediction), he just doesn't go down easily at all.
I'm likely not the best person to ask, as I tend to train wide rather than high in any skill-based game, not just DR. But the summary of my two cents is stay balanced and pick what best fits your character (in my case, DISC for hiding and resistances, CHAR for curses, spirit health and resistances).
Segmere Freat
Baron's Own Militia
DYMASCUS
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 02:40 PM CDT
All very helpful posts, thanks for the info. I realize stat weight has a lot to do with personal preference, and i know most of the general uses for different stats, minus a lot of the magical end of things...thieves really dont get much from int and wisdom. That being said, i got a lot of info as to what stats come into play with different clerical type activities. I did not know charisma played a part in curse effectiveness. That being said, i'm kinda leaning towards maybe going crazy with the mentals for a bit because my thief already takes the balanced, train everything approach and i think glass cannon might be a bit more fun and more of a change from what i already do. I dont need another walking arsenal, but it would be fun to melt faces with magic.
BLACKRUSSIAN
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 02:54 PM CDT
I not real sure that charisma does play in part of curse effectiveness. If the contest is Spirit vs whatever, then wisdom will play a larger part than charisma. Charisma is the only primary stat in contests of fear and charm. Which as a cleric, I don't think we have any. Charisma is a secondary and a third choice in some stat contests. But once you get away the from the primary, secondary doesn't play a HUGE part, it adds to it yes. Charisma biggest factor for us is its impact on spirit health.
DARPISECK
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 03:40 PM CDT
>I not real sure that charisma does play in part of curse effectiveness.
I THINK I recall extensive test numbers that say it does, back when the test servers were very active -- in any case, personal experience dictates that in particular, overcoming barb MR is much easier with high charisma.
There is an extremely easy way to test <without RESPEC>: cast a curse at "x number" of mana at a target, then cast auspice and do it again. I guarantee there's a difference, if not necessarily in STRENGTH of the curse, at least in the success rate of it. If you don't see a difference in the strength, check the duration -- it'll be longer with auspice up.
A good number of clerics swear by high charisma as a factor in almost everything we do. Most notably, Podfol had capped charisma and could curse me horribly even with my 50 int/wisdom & 80 disc.
Anyway, I'm old guard (rolled up in either '99 or 2000) and a good part of my build is because of that.
Segmere Freat
Baron's Own Militia
I THINK I recall extensive test numbers that say it does, back when the test servers were very active -- in any case, personal experience dictates that in particular, overcoming barb MR is much easier with high charisma.
There is an extremely easy way to test <without RESPEC>: cast a curse at "x number" of mana at a target, then cast auspice and do it again. I guarantee there's a difference, if not necessarily in STRENGTH of the curse, at least in the success rate of it. If you don't see a difference in the strength, check the duration -- it'll be longer with auspice up.
A good number of clerics swear by high charisma as a factor in almost everything we do. Most notably, Podfol had capped charisma and could curse me horribly even with my 50 int/wisdom & 80 disc.
Anyway, I'm old guard (rolled up in either '99 or 2000) and a good part of my build is because of that.
Segmere Freat
Baron's Own Militia
BLACKRUSSIAN
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 05:01 PM CDT
What I trying to say is, I think those contests you trying are spirit vs fortitude contests. which if it using spirit, then wisdom has more impact over charisma...and charisma isn't a stat that "makes curses more effectiveness". Its just a second stat used in the formula, and you get a bigger bang using wisdom vs charisma. Its just part of a stat contest than thats what it does. Yes charisma factors in a lot of things, but its usually a second stat in the formula for our stuff instead of the primary stat. I not saying ignore it, but Say you have 99 charisma and 10 wisdom, you probably be more effective with 99 wisdom and 10 charisma, using the same formula. Obviously you not going to be great since the second stat is extremely low compared to someone who is more balanced. In stat contests it more 3 stats vs 3 stats than one stat.
CLERIXHAX
Re: Cleric stats
06/19/2013 10:54 PM CDT
>You don't have to be a glass cannon because you focus on mentals, and other stats that help contest spells folks are using against you. As far as defense goes, you don't need to worry about vs reflex because mostly those are all CCs spells. My cleric has had no issues fighting folks 20-40 circles above him, and yes he is 100+. Strength, agility, and reflex are 30. He is fairly hard to hit still, and don't get hurt very much. He even beats clerics that are 10-30 circles higher. Their main issue is they are balanced. That allows my cleric to exploit spell contests that use his mentals, and he still contends against spells that requires their mentals. Vs will and fortitude. Primary stats on contested spells pack a pretty big punch. Don't neglect charisma and wisdom. You certainly want to protect against spirit attacks, even if you don't use them. You mostly want to make sure you last long enough to help counter it.
I say glass cannon because you'll be susceptible to pretty much any form of debilitation with a higher degree of success. Ranger spells like Branch Break. Curse of the Wild and Harawep's Bond, Barbarian Roars, pretty much every Cleric disabler/debuff. With a more balanced approach you'll be hit for less duration and severity, however your debuffs won't be as strong as well. Granted, contests are in favor of the attacker, for example, with a more balanced approach you may be hit with a Malediction that only incurs a moderate curse as opposed to a great curse or higher if you focus your stats only on mentals. That may provide the attacker with a chance to land an offensive TM spell or weapon attack where as the moderate curse could outright be blocked/dodged. There's pros and cons to both sides, so there really is no perfect approach. It just depends on what your goal is.
I say glass cannon because you'll be susceptible to pretty much any form of debilitation with a higher degree of success. Ranger spells like Branch Break. Curse of the Wild and Harawep's Bond, Barbarian Roars, pretty much every Cleric disabler/debuff. With a more balanced approach you'll be hit for less duration and severity, however your debuffs won't be as strong as well. Granted, contests are in favor of the attacker, for example, with a more balanced approach you may be hit with a Malediction that only incurs a moderate curse as opposed to a great curse or higher if you focus your stats only on mentals. That may provide the attacker with a chance to land an offensive TM spell or weapon attack where as the moderate curse could outright be blocked/dodged. There's pros and cons to both sides, so there really is no perfect approach. It just depends on what your goal is.
