In an effort to make more from Theurgy ranks what about introducing Spirit Weapons?

Summoned weapons is already a component of the Warrior Mage and Moon Mage guilds and so such an addition would be relatively painless as I can tell. It would work the same way except they would be formed from spirit. Perhaps carry the bless effect at all times as well.

Thoughts? (And I believe they should be equally usable on all types of creatures but the bless effect in and of itself would make them better against evil/undead)

>> Incoming mob of Paladins with holy pitchforks. ;)

haha - well they should just think of this as blazing a trail for them to have a similar feature. Though I would note the only summoned weapons I know of are from magic primary guilds... And we are lacking them.

Would much rather see a spell/commune to buffing actual weapons since clerics are the only guild that's weapons secondary/primary that doesn't have either a +weapon, +accuracy, roundtime reduction, or +weapon stats spell. Every other guild that is either weapons primary or secondary has a combination of at least two of those listed through either magical or mundane abilities.

> holy pitchforks

The sudden realization that this is possible thanks to the pitchfork drops during baconman.

<<I'm aware of bless and is also not under the four categories I listed, its a damage amplifier and doesn't directly improve your ability to hit, hit more often, increase skill or improve weapon stats directly.

It increases the damage of weapon hits (and only weapon hits) just like a stat increase to a weapon does, so it's a cherry pick if you include the latter but not former in your list of weapon based abilities. Bless is a weapon spell, plain and simple.

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If you're going to include everything that can potentially improve weapon use then don't forget agility and strength buffs and other indirect debilitation based damage amplifiers, both of which Clerics have too in Benediction and Divine Radiance.

However, I never said abilities that are in any way weapon related, but you did say a weapon buff. Bless is a buff spell that specifically affects weapons. It can even be cast directly onto a weapon if desired for a charged based effect instead of a duration based one. It doesn't get any more weapon buff-y than that. Implying that clerics don't have a weapon buffing ability by excluding weapon damage amplifiers that are cast directly on a weapon is disingenuous. Are Clerics the best, or even good, at weapon buffs? No, but they do have one.

Here's your modified list of actual weapon buffs once the debilitations and maneuvers are removed:

Barbarians: Dragon, Eagle, Wildfire
Rangers: STW, Oath, COTC
Thieves: Hasten, Steady, Strike, Spar
Paladins: RW, RUE, Holy weapon (the weapon is blessed, does more damage, and is more accurate than the same non-holy version, although let's be honest, with all the downsides that come with keeping it charged it's kind of a useless ability)
Warrior mage: Elemental Weapon (increased stats with techs/rare metal), Infusions(Fiery/Icy/Shocking/Quick/Reinforced), Ignite, MOF, Tailwind
Bard: Resonance, Rage of the Clans
Cleric: Bless/Kertigen Commune

Here's the tert ones too:
Moon Mage: Moonblade/Shape Moonblade (increased stats with techs/moon strength), Empower Moonblade
Empath: Aggressive Stance
Necromancer: Chiurgia

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Soooo you guys are anti Spirit Weapons?

<<I included everything that added damage directly to a weapons attack for secondary/primary weapons guild,

Bless (and it's sister spell Ignite) adds damage directly to a weapon's attack. You hit with the weapon and it flares for added damage. I get that you want to make Clerics seem less effective than other secondary guilds at weapons to make your suggestion more appealing, but leaving out weapon abilities that add flare damage directly to weapons isn't telling the whole story.

<<I'm simply stating things a cleric is lacking that would be beneficial.

Clerics are not lacking a way to buff weapons or their ability to hit with them. They are lacking the specific types of weapon buffs you want, which I don't think they need.

<<Soooo you guys are anti Spirit Weapons?

Yup, for clerics at least. Clerics already have a shield that functions off this mechanic, and if they really want to buff their weapon attacks more than with what Benediction, Bless, and Divine Radiance provide then they have penalty-free access to RuE. Paladins should be the ones to get more focus on their holy weapon, perhaps with something akin to your suggestion here, and weapons in general to make it actually a practical and useful ability to use, and to help further the definition between Cleric and Paladin.

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>>Bless (and it's sister spell Ignite) adds damage directly to a weapon's attack. You hit with the weapon and it flares for added damage. I get that you want to make Clerics seem less effective than other secondary guilds at weapons to make your suggestion more appealing, but leaving out weapon abilities that add flare damage directly to weapons isn't telling the whole story.

Yes and I included it because you wanted to nitpick, if you want to delve even further, Divine radiance isn't a debilitation (it contests utility even for the knockback) and I added MOA to the list due to its direct damage from elemental weapons.


>>Clerics are not lacking a way to buff weapons or their ability to hit with them.


Um....they have no buff for their ability to hit with weapons, Considering every guild that's not weapon tert has one either through +weapon skill or accuracy, I'd call that lacking. But maybe I'm just crazy!

>>They have penalty-free access to RuE.

Big whoop, War mages have a penalty free access to Resonance and Rage of the clans, this isn't about what you can do with scrolls/sorcery, this is about inherent abilities within a guild.


Just because you personally don't think that its needed doesn't mean others don't. And if you can't add anything constructive to the discussion besides berating people with actual thoughts on the subject, then go play somewhere else. Tired of your egotistical know it all attitude.

<<Um....they have no buff for their ability to hit with weapons, Considering every guild that's not weapon tert has one either through +weapon skill or accuracy, I'd call that lacking. But maybe I'm just crazy!

Agility via Benediction.

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It's not a random tangent when you say you have no way to increase your accuracy with weapons ("they have no buff for their ability to hit with weapons") when you have a buff that does just that.

Stop trying to make it sound like Clerics are somehow horrible at using weapons and are in desperate need of a buff to make up for a lack that doesn't exist.

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I hate to tell you this, but Absolon is among the most knowledgeable players we have. I can't say he is always right, but when we are scrutinizing facts he is rarely wrong.

<<I can agree with that mostly, but when I'm talking about spells/abilities that specifically relate to weapons and buffing the skill or accuracy (not stats or anything else)

One cannot talk about buffing weapon accuracy in a bubble that only includes direct buffs to the accuracy portion of the calculation. A statement such as "Clerics have no way of buffing their accuracy with weapons" does not make any sense, whether completely on its own or as an argument for adding a direct buff ability to accuracy, since it's a completely non-factual statement to make.

Likewise with abilities that add damage to weapons, it makes no sense to say that Clerics don't have an ability that increases weapon damage due to not having an ability that improves weapon stats when they have a strength buff, and weapon flare and damage amplifying abilities. Admittedly, the latter have only limited application in both PvE and PvP being undead/necro only.

<<and he wants to keep digging into things I'm not even talking about just to argue then that loses any respect I might of had.

I care more about facts and correct information than about respect.

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Did you pull out your F2P account just to post that?

<<Here's a fact for you Absolom, Slee1 said spells specifically to weapons and nothing about abilities or character stats to start with.

Bless is a spell specific to weapons. And the whole point I'm making is that you cannot talk about a specific type of ability in a bubble. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.

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That's why you keep posting, right?

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Being honest, Clerics are in a really great place right now. While I'm a fan of getting cool new toys as much as the next guy, I can't honestly lobby for more buffs for us at this time. Additionally, I'd prefer to see enhancements to spiritual combat over getting a thematic weapon summon just because magic prime. Also, I'd see +spirit damage as a Cleric related enchantment once Enchanting actually happens.

> Also, I'd see +spirit damage as a Cleric related enchantment once Enchanting actually happens.

That's potentially a super cool idea depending on how it's executed. Not to sound too much like a copycat idea, but something akin to Shadow Priests from WoW could be a very interesting thing for Clerics to get access to, presuming it was somehow balanced well. Unfortunately, I think Spirit combat is kind of an underdeveloped system presently, and as such, only Bards and Clerics having access to it makes me think balancing and developing it may be kind of tricky.

> What throws a huge wrench into things is the consequences of dying from spirit damage. There are griefers who are already currently exploiting the limited spirit damaging abilities to aid with their grave robbing ventures, so expanding on spirit damage abilities would require taking a long hard look at its consequences.

That's a completely different problem, and one that should probably be fixed by now. Maybe let someone who has been vigil'd be ressed.