> Could use a cyclic TM spell - something like HyH that can take a couple targeted spells, FF, Horn, and what-have-you.

I'm a proponent of this, even if it's undead only.


> Also Clerics being the harness/attunement freaks that they are perhaps a high level ability to run two cyclic spells at once. :)

Bards first ;)

To be honest it would be nice to see something fun like cyclic TM NOT be undead only... So many of our best offensive spells already are undead only and Time of the Red Spiral which is our newest feature is also undead only. If we were to have a second battery type spell akin to HyH it could be compatible with HE perhaps in addition to some of the non-undead lower tier TM spells. Or a completely new spell.

OR start filling in the gaps in hunting area's with more undead critters. It's just so often hunting undead isn't the best option especially when you want to keep up on skills like skinning.

Am I missing something here...? It's even DFA to boot.

https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Soul_Attrition

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SA also dissipates with one single death, making you re-cast it, unless that changed since I last used the spell. When people want a TM cyclic, they want one you can just turn on and forget about 'cept for lootin' any corpses. SA does not help with lazy TM training, that's for sure.

(I don't need cyclic TM. I use FoU and HyH.)

<<That does sound super bardy, sounds like a great idea for them tbh.

We've been asking for it since... well, how long have Bards been around now? ;)

Although I already have to work to maintain a single combat cyclic with any degree of power, so maintaining two at once would likely be next to impossible unless reducing the mana used by a lot. Although, that could be considered a check and balance of its own, I suppose. In either case, it would really only effectively be a high level bard thing even if it could be accessed by lower level ones.

Back on topic... thanks for explaining the limitations of SA. As for clerics getting a "traditional" TM cyclic, I think they're a bit overrated. From a perspective of someone who has both a bard and warrior mage with both cyclic tm and debil options, I almost exclusively use the debil ones over the TM. In PvE, having a constant effect debuffing everything is much more useful than a damaging effect. The latter burns through creatures too fast to train other stuff effectively with, so is really only useful for farming or showing off in invasions. E.g. I typically turn on PYRE at the end of my hunt to farm up some extra boxes quickly if I'm short on them, but otherwise I'm running DALU the whole time. HYH sounds so amazingly good, that I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to give it up in favour of a tm cyclic. That said, they do help in certain situations like the duskruin arena where you want to be able to stack as much damage as possible in as short amount a time as possible, but that's pretty niche. And as for PvP applications, SA seems to fit that bill already.

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Honestly don't care if its cyclic or not, though a different source of damage for an aoe would be nice. Something weighted towards pierce/slice/impact so we have something against living things that are immune to elemental damage.

Well I agree that HyH rules and I love it - use it all the time and wouldn't stop.

And I also agree that bards deserve 2 cyclic's.

But I would argue that Bards and Clerics BOTH deserve the ability to run multiple cyclic's. They are both core features of the class and are represented in the free feats the guilds get. Raw Channeling and Efficient Channeling respectively. It would be fun to see them offered at different circles though perhaps Bards acquiring it at circle 50 while clerics not until 100. Or something to that effect.

And ultimately this would pave the way for a cyclic TM being so fun, we could run HyH and a TM at the same time.

Also I find that I am able to run my cyclic's while maintaining a net gain in my overall attunement without issue. Running two would cause that to no longer be the case which would help to keep some checks and balances in place.

Clerics already have the ability to turn multiple spells into "cyclics" and use them simultaneously. It's via OM. Personally, I think bards need an "OM" that copies and applies the effects of cyclics without taking up the cyclic spot. Mechanically, that could be used only for buffing spells like BoTF, HODI, EYE, GJ, CARE (?), FAE, and SANC (parts). Anyway, I digress.

Clerics, to me at least, feel more about the metaspells, buffing, anti-undead, utility, and spirit manipulation. That's why I think cyclics that utilize those domains would make more sense than just running multiple cyclics at once.

So basically a DFA, non-undead only version of SLS then. I use SLS whenever I can on my Moon Mage, since it's a decent spell. But I also don't have a HYH equivalent to compete with it for the cyclic slot.

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>So basically a DFA, non-undead only version of SLS then.

Yes but SLS doesn't slowly kill you if you dont keep one of two, or both spells active on you (auspice and SOS). And even a capped SOS doesnt last for many hits.

> Id like to see a cleric cyclic TM, but i imagine it in the way of a sorecerous spell. And fitting the undead niche since giving clerics a overall cyclic tm seems a but overkillish. Id like to see something like the cleric binding/summoning the souls/essence of things its recently killed, or opening a conduit to the void.

I still like the meta idea, but I like this idea too. I wouldn't want it to be a summoned creature in the same vein of GS or Zombies though. Maybe tearing open a hole to the void.
+ Highly effective against undead, necro, cursed. Gods are moderately supportive. They don't like that you're messing with the void, but they ignore it because you're sending undead there.
+ Moderately effective against NPCs. Creatures without favors are of little interest to the gods. They're just slightly annoyed that you're messing with their void.
+ Not effective against players. You can use it, but it tanks your devotion and favors act as a "shield" greatly reducing or eliminating the damage.

Effects:
- Buildup time.
- Room effect: the room becomes a dark room.
- Periodically, a slight tug will pull at your targets, draining their spirit and vitality.
- Esoteric follow-up (conduit) that lets you open a second portal to the void and connect the two within the void. You get a portion of the drain depending on spell power.

>>It most certainly works this way unless something changed in 3.2

No, it's been working that way since long before 3.2. Safe rooms do not end SA, in general, unless there is one specific one most of the game does not know about that functionally kills the spell.

Even though I love this use of SA on a personal level, I gotta say that "at least you can inconvenience the cleric in a minor way too" is such a sorry defense against a single cast (that also stuns you and makes it generally hard to GET to a holy room). Still a good idea!