Heritages aren't quite as simple as "X skills go to Y Heritage" though when working on some of the other Bardic projects coming up I tend to thematically connect things to them.

To hit the crafting note to start with -- All Bards (as a lore primary) already get large bonuses to the crafting system, and at this point I'm not ready to commit to piling more on. That said, it is something I have considered and the Lorekeepers are the most likely Heritage to end up with it should it come about.

But to continue with my main point -- the Heritages are more complex than the short summaries tend to give them credit (and I fully admit to using the short hand when describing them), particularly when they encounter skill sets. To elaborate:

Songsworn -- Generally we've said this is the Combat Heritage, but at the same time they're spies and secret agents and whatnot. Maybe ninjas, maybe pirates (maybe not). So while the emphasis will be on physical combat ability, they also touch on a number of survival skills to do their job, but they also need a focus on magic to aid their combat and the new mojo abilities (which will certainly tie into the sort of things a Songsworn would be doing) will draw directly from the Bardic Lore skill.

As you can see they're all over the place as far as skill sets are concerned, and in the end -- they're still a Bard first, Songsworn second, and everything that implies.

So the other two Heritages don't feel neglected:

Lorekeepers -- The "Lore and Magic" Heritage, this Heritage is a little more focused than the other two and in involving possibly the most "new stuff" mechanically, which is a little surprising given than the Taleweavers didn't even exist as a concept before we started this project. I think this is part of why people have having a little trouble with "what does a Lorekeeper do" because right now, you're right -- they get magic which everyone has, and recall which is a little boring right now. It will not remain that way. As mentioned, if we decided to go with crafting boosting -- this is the most likely home for it.

Taleweavers -- Again, the "Performance Heritage" sells them a little short. They aren't just the new Performance Skill + Athletics. While a lot of the RP tools will find a happy home with people who enjoy this Heritage, it will be as fully functional as the other two. Like the Lorekeepers they'll be a number of new toys themed around them through the new Mojo system.

Keep in mind, the mechanical benefits of being in a Heritage are going to be limited -- they're mostly there as a framework for RP and the development of other things.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

> To hit the crafting note to start with -- All Bards (as a lore primary) already get large bonuses to the crafting system, and at this point I'm not ready to commit to piling more on. That said, it is something I have considered and the Lorekeepers are the most likely Heritage to end up with it should it come about.

I get not wanting to pile up more on the crafting system since we will get so much already as a lore primary. But on the list of little tricks/Heritage cantrips I'd be interested in something related to crafting. And, more specifically, some RP-related in one of the Heritages to crafting. I don't need feats that make my instruments better than anyone else's, that's what being lore primary is for. On the RP side though, what makes more sense for a semi-secret/semi-selective Bardic group to guard than traditions and methods related to the creation of instruments?

Additional questions, mostly related to understanding the Heritages as a way to understand more about the direction the Guild is going.

>Songsworn -- Generally we've said this is the Combat Heritage, but at the same time they're spies and secret agents and whatnot. Maybe ninjas, maybe pirates (maybe not). So while the emphasis will be on physical combat ability, they also touch on a number of survival skills to do their job . . .

Given that we are a survival tertiary Guild, except for keeping Misdirection is there anything planned, not in the Heritages but maybe as a feat, that would fall under the stealthy skills that would make sense? It just seems the survival primes should get first dibs, then Moon Mages, and then . . . no one?

But being a spy or a secret agent can be a lot more than being a ninja in the dark. For Bards, I'm thinking Scarlet Pimpernel. Because we're very dashing.

On the Lorekeepers, any chance that they might know a bit more about the Naga? I'm still reading through years of posts, but it seems that the fleshing out of how Bardic magic works is a bit behind the other Guilds.

~~
Lupdels

>Re: Survival abilities.

Bards may end up with some minor interactions with the survival skill set (Much the same way a number of guilds have minor interactions with their tert skill set), for example the Bluffs are planned to stick around (Though improved) and a number of those are survival based.

For the most part, however, you get to demonstrate that you're a super sneaky perception ninja/pirate/burned spy/Bard the same way you get to demonstrate that, say, you're a Moon Mage/Y'shai. Which is to say working harder at a tert skill than everyone else.

>On the Lorekeepers, any chance that they might know a bit more about the Naga?

Yes and no. Yes, we plan to expand the Naga lore. No, it likely won't be Lorekeeper centric.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>/coughslipscough

http://tinyurl.com/y9lgh85

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

Not really. If you haven't read any of my previous suggestions on alternate Bard slips, then I suggest looking them up. I'd link them but they've been archived.

-Evran

Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.

We're not that far into development (feats are the very last thing on the Bardic plate right now) but that is currently the general idea, yes.

Being part of a Heritage comes with RP perks, and will make some things easier and some things harder. In the long run it'll be equal with not being in a Heritage.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

<<I count five spells that buff our survival skills, leaving only Outdoormanship, First Aid, and Skinning out of the cold.*

Outdoorsmanship is the only one of those three we won't buff.

First Aid is part of Hodierna's Lilt, Zeyurn just forgot to include it in his blurb because he wasn't aware of it. Skinning I think is in the same boat and will still be included in Drums of the Snake.

<<So if we get to have this, plus potentially Bluffs dealing with survival, and plus potentially Feats as well buffing survival, I fear we're going to have to get screwed somewhere.

Why? We've been able to do all of it except the feats for years and years now. The addition of feats isn't going to be a major change since the Heritage feats are not going to be major buffs or abilities. They will either be fluffy or modify an ability in a minor way like making it slightly more efficient to use or something like that.

-Evran

Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.

Evran is essentially correct.

I'm only tangentially involved in magic 3.0, but it is my understanding that survival skills fall outside of the Bard sphere of influence, so their boosts will be smaller than, say, a Ranger's boosts to the same skill.

Further I (currently) have no plans to introduce further boosting of your survival skills through the Mojo system, but I also don't plan to scrap the existing ones.

Basically when all is said and done -- the Bard's ability to enhance his own survivals is going to stay roughly as it is now (though the bluffs might actually work and be somewhat practical...)

As a final note -- I think you're slightly misunderstanding the intention of feats Lupdels. Feats will mostly interact with the mojo system, and will enhance certain aspects. An example (That may or may not end up being real) would be something that reduced the mojo drain of using screams. They're not intended to be direct skill/stat boosters.


-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>Feats will mostly interact with the mojo system, and will enhance certain aspects. An example (That may or may not end up being real) would be something that reduced the mojo drain of using screams. They're not intended to be direct skill/stat boosters.

Noted. Just saw a lot of suggestions for feats that seemed more like skill/state boosters and wasn't sure what was plausible and what was wishful thinking.

~~
Lupdels