So I've reactivated an old, old, old Bardic character and found that during some previous transition all of my spells were cleared out. So I have 50 spell slots burning a hole in my pocket!
This is what I've been looking at:
Combat Buffs: Rage (2), Drums (2), Harmony (3), Resonance (2), Naming of Tears (3), and Ease Burden (AP, 1).
At least for me, I've always liked having Ease Burden to reduce Encumbrance while hunting.
Battle Cyclic: Either Pyre (3) or DALU (4), depending on what I'm hunting and my needs.
Working backwards I'd also pick up prereqs and some other general buffs for other activities (Crafting, etc.): Care (0), Breath of Storms (1), FAE (1), WOTM (1), Misdirection (3), Balm (1), Eillie's Cry (1), HODI (2), and GJ (1).
I'll also round off with BOTF (1), Eye (1), and Sanctuary (2).
For the Rituals, I was looking at Echoes and Will (6 total). Words of the Wind seems sub-par without a significant Bardic abilities track. For TM either Echoes or Will will help. Thoughts on which one to keep up most of the time?
For feats, I was going to pick up Alternate Preparation (picking for RP), Deep Attunement, Efficient Channeling, Efficient Harnessing and Magic Theorist.
That leaves me five to spare. I'm not rushing for anything else, but curious if I'm overlooking anything.
THETECHNOCRACY
NINEVAH1
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 10:57 AM CST
Manifest Force is worth learning if you want to keep your scroll slot free for sorcery or some other spells.
BADGOPHER
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 11:42 AM CST
I think after 10th level ease is a waste.
You also want to factor in magic feats.
You also want to factor in magic feats.
THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 01:02 PM CST
>>Manifest Force is worth learning if you want to keep your scroll slot free for sorcery or some other spells.
It's apples to oranges, but what's the comparison between Manifest Force and Naming of Tears? Is the issue Name pulses to group and is taking up those spell slots, and Manifest Force provides a benefit for cheaper?
>>You also want to factor in magic feats.
I listed Alternate Preparation (picking for RP), Deep Attunement, Efficient Channeling, Efficient Harnessing and Magic Theorist. Not sure what else would be worth it long term.
It's apples to oranges, but what's the comparison between Manifest Force and Naming of Tears? Is the issue Name pulses to group and is taking up those spell slots, and Manifest Force provides a benefit for cheaper?
>>You also want to factor in magic feats.
I listed Alternate Preparation (picking for RP), Deep Attunement, Efficient Channeling, Efficient Harnessing and Magic Theorist. Not sure what else would be worth it long term.
ABSOLON
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 03:26 PM CST
There's two primary types of damage reduction abilities.
1. A percent damage reduction ability reduces all incoming damage by a given percent based on the mana you put into it. It can never reduce damage to zero, but the amount of damage reduced increases the larger the base damage is. I.e. it's good at mitigating large hits, but doesn't do much against the build up of small bumps and scrapes into larger wounds.
2. A flat damage reduction ability reduces all damage by a fixed amount. This can reduce damage to zero for small hits, but the reduction is the same even for large hits. I.e. this is really good at preventing a build up of small bumps and scrapes into larger wounds, but has a less noticeable effect against large hits than a percent booster provides.
Naming of Tears is a percent damage reduction ability, whereas Manifest Force is both a percent and a flat damage reducer. This means that Manifest Force is good at mitigating all types of hits, whereas Naming of Tears is really only effective against the harder hitting ones. That said, they do currently stack so by using both you'll get a larger percent reduction on top of the flat reduction that Manifest Force provides. I would consider using a temporary scroll slot for it as well, instead of permanently memorizing it. The scrolls are inexpensive and available all the time, and if you still want to use a sorcerous scroll then you can learn the Improved Memory feat to get an extra scroll slot and still save a permanent spell slot choice. Permanently memorizing it isn't a bad thing either, but just know there's options because of it's Analogous Pattern status.
tl;dr version: It's worth learning both because it stacks with and provides a different type of damage reduction than Naming of Tears.
Consider using a temporary spell slot either with or without the Improved Memory feat.
More details here:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Damage_Modifying_Abilities_and_You_-_01/20/2010_-_19:10
As for your spell list, I don't think I see Demrris' Resolve on there. It's an AoE stun that's quite easy to snap cast. Very useful debilitation in PvE, and probably PvP too. Also, the only other debilitation abilities I see in your list are Albreda's Balm, Damaris' Lullaby and Misdirection, all of which have some debilitation training complications to them. ALB requires you to use your Cyclic spot and creatures tend to run away, while Misdirection only teaches every 30-120 seconds depending on your success. DALU is a better at training, but again requires using up your cyclic slot, which is usually fine but sometimes you want to use something else while training debilitation. DMRS can be cast again for training as soon as the stun wears off which is usually only about 15-20 seconds at highest success, and doesn't use up the cyclic spot.
Both ECHO and WILL are useful rituals, and I make use of both. I find that WILL, however, is most useful in a situation where I want to impress someone with messaging or kill stuff fast like an invasion or loot farming, but not during regular training. I find I kill stuff with Pyre and BoS far too fast for training purposes with it up. Echo provides additional attunement, so I find it better to use in day to day hunting, and it helps with sorcerous casting in combat if you are so inclined. Just be aware that like with all ritual spells, your concentration is tanked by casting them so you won't be able to cast other spells very well or at all for a few minutes after doing so.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
1. A percent damage reduction ability reduces all incoming damage by a given percent based on the mana you put into it. It can never reduce damage to zero, but the amount of damage reduced increases the larger the base damage is. I.e. it's good at mitigating large hits, but doesn't do much against the build up of small bumps and scrapes into larger wounds.
2. A flat damage reduction ability reduces all damage by a fixed amount. This can reduce damage to zero for small hits, but the reduction is the same even for large hits. I.e. this is really good at preventing a build up of small bumps and scrapes into larger wounds, but has a less noticeable effect against large hits than a percent booster provides.
Naming of Tears is a percent damage reduction ability, whereas Manifest Force is both a percent and a flat damage reducer. This means that Manifest Force is good at mitigating all types of hits, whereas Naming of Tears is really only effective against the harder hitting ones. That said, they do currently stack so by using both you'll get a larger percent reduction on top of the flat reduction that Manifest Force provides. I would consider using a temporary scroll slot for it as well, instead of permanently memorizing it. The scrolls are inexpensive and available all the time, and if you still want to use a sorcerous scroll then you can learn the Improved Memory feat to get an extra scroll slot and still save a permanent spell slot choice. Permanently memorizing it isn't a bad thing either, but just know there's options because of it's Analogous Pattern status.
tl;dr version: It's worth learning both because it stacks with and provides a different type of damage reduction than Naming of Tears.
Consider using a temporary spell slot either with or without the Improved Memory feat.
More details here:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Damage_Modifying_Abilities_and_You_-_01/20/2010_-_19:10
As for your spell list, I don't think I see Demrris' Resolve on there. It's an AoE stun that's quite easy to snap cast. Very useful debilitation in PvE, and probably PvP too. Also, the only other debilitation abilities I see in your list are Albreda's Balm, Damaris' Lullaby and Misdirection, all of which have some debilitation training complications to them. ALB requires you to use your Cyclic spot and creatures tend to run away, while Misdirection only teaches every 30-120 seconds depending on your success. DALU is a better at training, but again requires using up your cyclic slot, which is usually fine but sometimes you want to use something else while training debilitation. DMRS can be cast again for training as soon as the stun wears off which is usually only about 15-20 seconds at highest success, and doesn't use up the cyclic spot.
Both ECHO and WILL are useful rituals, and I make use of both. I find that WILL, however, is most useful in a situation where I want to impress someone with messaging or kill stuff fast like an invasion or loot farming, but not during regular training. I find I kill stuff with Pyre and BoS far too fast for training purposes with it up. Echo provides additional attunement, so I find it better to use in day to day hunting, and it helps with sorcerous casting in combat if you are so inclined. Just be aware that like with all ritual spells, your concentration is tanked by casting them so you won't be able to cast other spells very well or at all for a few minutes after doing so.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
PRIMEQ
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 05:03 PM CST
You have a pretty good list so far.
Some of the spells I think are less worthwhile: Eye, Ease.
Eye is a pulsing "see-hidden" spell, but you cannot act on what you see, so I suppose it's only really worthwhile if you think someone is chasing you and you want to get out of dodge. But in that case you could just use Sanctuary to make it a no-hiding room.
Ease is the kind of spell you shouldn't need because it's relatively easy to keep your burden low, especially at your level. I'd suggest doing a sweep of your inventory and getting rid of all the unnecessary stuff. I also personally find it mana-taxing to keep up a lot of buffs. That said, if you're willing to put the mana in and you'd really prefer to carry extra stuff, you have enough slots for it.
Battle Cyclics: I too trade off between Pyre and Dalu. Sometimes Alb, if the creature is really hard and I want a break from being smashed up while I focus on one. Aban is another possibility that I haven't tried, but could work well against non-undead. It's also fantastic for PVP.
I agree with ABSOLON on Echo vs. Will. I have both, but I tend to use Echo for hunting (+Attunement helps with the mana issues) and Will for invasions or PVP. I also find I really don't need the TM buff to hit critters at my level.
A couple you might be missing: Dmrs, AOT, Repr. As mentioned, Dmrs is great and gives you more Debilitation versatility. AOT and Repr are spells that I find particularly good for training (with symbioses), so perhaps worth considering on that front. However, their effects may be lackluster for you if you're not interested in the RP or PVP scenes.
For feats you are almost certainly going to want Dedicated Cambrinth, so your cyclics don't steal from your cambrinth.
- Navesi
Some of the spells I think are less worthwhile: Eye, Ease.
Eye is a pulsing "see-hidden" spell, but you cannot act on what you see, so I suppose it's only really worthwhile if you think someone is chasing you and you want to get out of dodge. But in that case you could just use Sanctuary to make it a no-hiding room.
Ease is the kind of spell you shouldn't need because it's relatively easy to keep your burden low, especially at your level. I'd suggest doing a sweep of your inventory and getting rid of all the unnecessary stuff. I also personally find it mana-taxing to keep up a lot of buffs. That said, if you're willing to put the mana in and you'd really prefer to carry extra stuff, you have enough slots for it.
Battle Cyclics: I too trade off between Pyre and Dalu. Sometimes Alb, if the creature is really hard and I want a break from being smashed up while I focus on one. Aban is another possibility that I haven't tried, but could work well against non-undead. It's also fantastic for PVP.
I agree with ABSOLON on Echo vs. Will. I have both, but I tend to use Echo for hunting (+Attunement helps with the mana issues) and Will for invasions or PVP. I also find I really don't need the TM buff to hit critters at my level.
A couple you might be missing: Dmrs, AOT, Repr. As mentioned, Dmrs is great and gives you more Debilitation versatility. AOT and Repr are spells that I find particularly good for training (with symbioses), so perhaps worth considering on that front. However, their effects may be lackluster for you if you're not interested in the RP or PVP scenes.
For feats you are almost certainly going to want Dedicated Cambrinth, so your cyclics don't steal from your cambrinth.
- Navesi
THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 06:04 PM CST
>>Ease is the kind of spell you shouldn't need because it's relatively easy to keep your burden low, especially at your level. I'd suggest doing a sweep of your inventory and getting rid of all the unnecessary stuff. I also personally find it mana-taxing to keep up a lot of buffs. That said, if you're willing to put the mana in and you'd really prefer to carry extra stuff, you have enough slots for it.
But I NEED to carry around my wind up tart toy, and a collection of puppets, and and ...
Good point on that. I seriously need to clean out stuff.
>AOT and Repr are spells that I find particularly good for training (with symbioses), so perhaps worth considering on that front.
How so? I haven't gotten into symbioses much so I am not familiar with the ways the mechanics helps with different spells and training.
>For feats you are almost certainly going to want Dedicated Cambrinth, so your cyclics don't steal from your cambrinth.
Oh good idea!
But I NEED to carry around my wind up tart toy, and a collection of puppets, and and ...
Good point on that. I seriously need to clean out stuff.
>AOT and Repr are spells that I find particularly good for training (with symbioses), so perhaps worth considering on that front.
How so? I haven't gotten into symbioses much so I am not familiar with the ways the mechanics helps with different spells and training.
>For feats you are almost certainly going to want Dedicated Cambrinth, so your cyclics don't steal from your cambrinth.
Oh good idea!
PRIMEQ
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 07:37 PM CST
>>How so? I haven't gotten into symbioses much so I am not familiar with the ways the mechanics helps with different spells and training.
A symbiosis is something you prepare along with a spell that makes it more difficult. Thus you can learn a lot from low-mana casts. I prefer to stick to spells I don't care as much about the actual buffs, since the buffs themselves will be lower. Also some spells just seem to teach a bit more than others (looking at you, LW).
Thinking about feats, you may also want to consider Area Casting. It will let you make area casts of some useful spells like Hodi and Fae, which would otherwise only affect your group. It requires Augmentation Mastery.
- Navesi
A symbiosis is something you prepare along with a spell that makes it more difficult. Thus you can learn a lot from low-mana casts. I prefer to stick to spells I don't care as much about the actual buffs, since the buffs themselves will be lower. Also some spells just seem to teach a bit more than others (looking at you, LW).
Thinking about feats, you may also want to consider Area Casting. It will let you make area casts of some useful spells like Hodi and Fae, which would otherwise only affect your group. It requires Augmentation Mastery.
- Navesi
NINEVAH1
Re: Magic Shopping Spree
01/26/2016 08:56 PM CST
>>It's apples to oranges, but what's the comparison between Manifest Force and Naming of Tears? Is the issue Name pulses to group and is taking up those spell slots, and Manifest Force provides a benefit for cheaper?
Absolon went into in depth already, but the short of it is that NAME and MaF are the best physical barriers in the game and they can be stacked together. You will never have to worry about leaving at-level hunting early because of wounds with them.
Absolon went into in depth already, but the short of it is that NAME and MaF are the best physical barriers in the game and they can be stacked together. You will never have to worry about leaving at-level hunting early because of wounds with them.
