Rather than necro a few old threads, I'm curious on the status of a few planned Bard projects. I found lots of lists of projects that seemed to be approved and under way, just want to know if they are still on the way or dead in the water. If they are dead, I think it'd be good to know. Just in case people are still hoping for them.
Lots of heritage talk here, sounded like a very nice system:
http://forums.play.net/messages.asp?forum=20&category=21&topic=18&message=13/messages.asp
A very nice ability proposal list:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Bards/Suggestions%20and%20Discussion%20-%20Special%20Abilities/view/9
MAGE-WARRIOR
PRIMEQ
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 03:16 AM CST
My guess is that they aren't so much "dead" as "pushed to the bottom of the priorities pile, and will probably be totally reconsidered by the time they get out again". I'm no GM, it just seemed like Raesh was called in for some much-needed projects like DR 3.0, new spells, the barrier review, etc.
Supposedly the plan for after the barrier changes is for the Devs to take a long look at Bards, Paladins, and Rangers (not sure in what order).
That said, I would love to know more about the status of these projects individually if anyone cares to share. Heritages, Bardic Lore abilities, Recall/Evoke, Call of the Siren, Performance abilities, etc.
- Navesi
Supposedly the plan for after the barrier changes is for the Devs to take a long look at Bards, Paladins, and Rangers (not sure in what order).
That said, I would love to know more about the status of these projects individually if anyone cares to share. Heritages, Bardic Lore abilities, Recall/Evoke, Call of the Siren, Performance abilities, etc.
- Navesi
ABSOLON
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 04:08 AM CST
I'm pretty certain the heritage system as proposed way back then is dead. It might get life as something lore-based with maybe some titles or something similar, but I recall Raesh since saying at one point that all of the abilities and mechanical differences between each heritage along with the prose and NPC/area writing has too low of a return on investment to get coded. And even if it still exists on someone's to-do or wish pile, it's probably way down at the bottom.
The only way I could see heritages maybe being mechanically worked in is in conjunction with the Bardic Lore rewrite that will happen eventually, as Navesi alluded to. Bards, Paladins, and Rangers all need serious work on their guild skills, and that work is supposed to occur shortly after the barrier rewrite. Even then, I don't see a lot of new abilities being developed for such a rewrite, at least where Bards are concerned, so any mechanical tie-ins would likely be related to the new Presence/Intimidation system or to adjusted versions of existing abilities in ways that are passive similar to magical feats. E.g. Songsworn get a slightly reduced cool down on screams, Lorekeepers regenerate Inspiration slightly faster, etc.
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The only way I could see heritages maybe being mechanically worked in is in conjunction with the Bardic Lore rewrite that will happen eventually, as Navesi alluded to. Bards, Paladins, and Rangers all need serious work on their guild skills, and that work is supposed to occur shortly after the barrier rewrite. Even then, I don't see a lot of new abilities being developed for such a rewrite, at least where Bards are concerned, so any mechanical tie-ins would likely be related to the new Presence/Intimidation system or to adjusted versions of existing abilities in ways that are passive similar to magical feats. E.g. Songsworn get a slightly reduced cool down on screams, Lorekeepers regenerate Inspiration slightly faster, etc.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
DR-RAESH
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 05:13 AM CST
You shouldn't give much weight to any of the projects announced for Bards pre 3.0.
The game has changed a great deal from then and I'm not the GM I was then (Bards were basically the first thing I was told to work on when I walked out the gate having no prior experience with the guild). There's some nuggets of that design that I like, but I don't feel particularly bound by it.
Heritages - I like the lore behind them but I don't think they ever really are going to end up developed mechanically to the degree we were considering. It's not a good RoI of development time (This is another hard lesson I've learned over the years).
Evokes and Recalls are essentially done and rewritten, though I'd like to see more of them out there. Many of the area recalls still need to be updated to the new system (And I've heard some rumors some of the evokes aren't working properly right now?). I've tried to get that finished by budding GMs for years but it never seems to pan out and it might end up floating to the top of my short list soon because Recall and Prediction are two systems I entirely overhauled that just need that last bit of work put into them to be considered fully finished.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
The game has changed a great deal from then and I'm not the GM I was then (Bards were basically the first thing I was told to work on when I walked out the gate having no prior experience with the guild). There's some nuggets of that design that I like, but I don't feel particularly bound by it.
Heritages - I like the lore behind them but I don't think they ever really are going to end up developed mechanically to the degree we were considering. It's not a good RoI of development time (This is another hard lesson I've learned over the years).
Evokes and Recalls are essentially done and rewritten, though I'd like to see more of them out there. Many of the area recalls still need to be updated to the new system (And I've heard some rumors some of the evokes aren't working properly right now?). I've tried to get that finished by budding GMs for years but it never seems to pan out and it might end up floating to the top of my short list soon because Recall and Prediction are two systems I entirely overhauled that just need that last bit of work put into them to be considered fully finished.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 11:10 AM CST
What about a 100th circle ability, or fixing Screams, or adding content to Bardic Lore? And wasn't there discussion about collapsing or tweaking some of the cyclics so Bards had more options with what they were doing?
THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 11:16 AM CST
>>Heritages - I like the lore behind them but I don't think they ever really are going to end up developed mechanically to the degree we were considering. It's not a good RoI of development time (This is another hard lesson I've learned over the years).
There have been Bard merchants on and off again over the years with heritages themed items. While a fully developed heritage may not have the right ROI, it would be nice to keep and maintain at least the in-game existence of the heritages for those that want to roleplay in them. A few lore posts that flesh out history, defining traits, ideologies, key NPCs, etc. would be nice.
There have been Bard merchants on and off again over the years with heritages themed items. While a fully developed heritage may not have the right ROI, it would be nice to keep and maintain at least the in-game existence of the heritages for those that want to roleplay in them. A few lore posts that flesh out history, defining traits, ideologies, key NPCs, etc. would be nice.
THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 11:25 AM CST
>>Evokes and Recalls are essentially done and rewritten, though I'd like to see more of them out there. Many of the area recalls still need to be updated to the new system (And I've heard some rumors some of the evokes aren't working properly right now?). I've tried to get that finished by budding GMs for years but it never seems to pan out and it might end up floating to the top of my short list soon because Recall and Prediction are two systems I entirely overhauled that just need that last bit of work put into them to be considered fully finished.
As I "Recall" (hah) from long, long ago there were numbers given for recalls by province and not all of them had been identified on Elanthipedia. Did this ever get worked out?
My notes say (this is from years ago).
P1: 21 Recalls, 3 Evokes. Up to 23 Recalls, 6 Evokes. New additions from Arthelun Flats and the Arthelun Cabalists.
P2: 48 Recalls, 3 Evokes. Elanthipedia has 43 Recalls, 3 Evokes. So five missing Recalls still?
P3: 17 Recalls, 4 Evokes. Elanthipedia has 11 Recalls, 3 Evokes. Missing?
P4: 33 Recalls, 0 Evokes. Elanthipedia has 31 Recalls, and there's a new Evoke.
P5: None.
As I "Recall" (hah) from long, long ago there were numbers given for recalls by province and not all of them had been identified on Elanthipedia. Did this ever get worked out?
My notes say (this is from years ago).
P1: 21 Recalls, 3 Evokes. Up to 23 Recalls, 6 Evokes. New additions from Arthelun Flats and the Arthelun Cabalists.
P2: 48 Recalls, 3 Evokes. Elanthipedia has 43 Recalls, 3 Evokes. So five missing Recalls still?
P3: 17 Recalls, 4 Evokes. Elanthipedia has 11 Recalls, 3 Evokes. Missing?
P4: 33 Recalls, 0 Evokes. Elanthipedia has 31 Recalls, and there's a new Evoke.
P5: None.
DR-RAESH
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 11:44 AM CST
>>A few lore posts that flesh out history, defining traits, ideologies, key NPCs, etc. would be nice.
That's a much more likely fate for Heritages.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
That's a much more likely fate for Heritages.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
DR-RAESH
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 11:46 AM CST
>>What about a 100th circle ability
That's not really something that's a thing these days.
>>fixing Screams
On the list.
>>adding content to Bardic Lore?
Also on the list.
>>And wasn't there discussion about collapsing or tweaking some of the cyclics so Bards had more options with what they were doing?
Sorta. It's more both of these statements are things the current magic dev team feels are true:
"Cyclics haven't really worked out the way we want them to for magic in general and the way they exist causes some weird game play and some weird dev limitations."
"Cyclics as a guild focus should be a perk, but it's more of a drawback in practice and the more cyclics you have the less useful all of them become."
Which isn't so hot for Bards. Fixing it isn't a short term project though. Minor QoL improvements to some cyclics would be something that could be done on a faster timeline.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
That's not really something that's a thing these days.
>>fixing Screams
On the list.
>>adding content to Bardic Lore?
Also on the list.
>>And wasn't there discussion about collapsing or tweaking some of the cyclics so Bards had more options with what they were doing?
Sorta. It's more both of these statements are things the current magic dev team feels are true:
"Cyclics haven't really worked out the way we want them to for magic in general and the way they exist causes some weird game play and some weird dev limitations."
"Cyclics as a guild focus should be a perk, but it's more of a drawback in practice and the more cyclics you have the less useful all of them become."
Which isn't so hot for Bards. Fixing it isn't a short term project though. Minor QoL improvements to some cyclics would be something that could be done on a faster timeline.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ABSOLON
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 12:27 PM CST
<<Minor QoL improvements to some cyclics would be something that could be done on a faster timeline.
Hi!
Here's a list of some things that would fit the above criteria (and a couple mostly related ones):
1. Certain cyclics don't really message that they're effecting people. Sometimes it's from the Bard's point of view, sometimes the target's, or sometimes both. E.g. Faenella's Grace and Blessing of the Fae message when you yourself first receive the effect, but the bard never sees who is actually affected by it like with other spells. Faenella's Grace is especially nebulous, because so many young bards think it is an area effect when it's actually just a group effect without the feat and CAST AREA since they don't have any feedback about who is being affected and on top of that it doesn't appear in the spell window aside from the casting Bard. Examples of ones that give much better feedback are Hodierna's Lilt, or Albreda's Balm.
2. Sanctuary is confusing. Sometimes the dome of light messages on every pulse, and other times it seems to stop messaging the dome after a while only to start up with the dome of light messaging again several minutes later. All with the same cast of the cyclic. If it's working as intended, maybe a clear explanation of why it does this?
3. Also with Sanctuary, I can't seem to get it to do anything except preventing creature spawn. Granted, I can't put a tonne of mana into it, since it's a relatively hard cyclic to cast in the grand scheme of things, but there should be some level of locate protection if the dome is forming, yes?
4. Not a cyclic, but Resonance needs some kind of messaging to let us know it has worn off. Right now there is no way to tell if it's still on your weapon without the roundtime of either a focus or an appraise.
5. Also not a cyclic, but Drums of the Snake is in this weird space where it's not a pulse to group spell and not a standard group/AoE spell. Instead it has the relative disadvantages of both types of spells (people must be present at the time of casting and they lose the effect if they leave) and neither of their relative advantages (people can't gain/regain the effect after the cast or keep the buff if they leave.) I don't have access to the code, but it seems like it should be a proper pulse to group spell like Rage of the Clans and the pulsing part of the spell simply isn't triggering properly. Whatever it is, making it either a properly functioning pulse to group spell or simply a standard group/AoE spell is better than where it is right now. The feedback on this one is also not very good. We only see ourselves being affected, not others like with Rage of the Clans. It's a bit better than Faenella's Grace, however, since at least those affected by it do see it in their spell window.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Hi!
Here's a list of some things that would fit the above criteria (and a couple mostly related ones):
1. Certain cyclics don't really message that they're effecting people. Sometimes it's from the Bard's point of view, sometimes the target's, or sometimes both. E.g. Faenella's Grace and Blessing of the Fae message when you yourself first receive the effect, but the bard never sees who is actually affected by it like with other spells. Faenella's Grace is especially nebulous, because so many young bards think it is an area effect when it's actually just a group effect without the feat and CAST AREA since they don't have any feedback about who is being affected and on top of that it doesn't appear in the spell window aside from the casting Bard. Examples of ones that give much better feedback are Hodierna's Lilt, or Albreda's Balm.
2. Sanctuary is confusing. Sometimes the dome of light messages on every pulse, and other times it seems to stop messaging the dome after a while only to start up with the dome of light messaging again several minutes later. All with the same cast of the cyclic. If it's working as intended, maybe a clear explanation of why it does this?
3. Also with Sanctuary, I can't seem to get it to do anything except preventing creature spawn. Granted, I can't put a tonne of mana into it, since it's a relatively hard cyclic to cast in the grand scheme of things, but there should be some level of locate protection if the dome is forming, yes?
4. Not a cyclic, but Resonance needs some kind of messaging to let us know it has worn off. Right now there is no way to tell if it's still on your weapon without the roundtime of either a focus or an appraise.
5. Also not a cyclic, but Drums of the Snake is in this weird space where it's not a pulse to group spell and not a standard group/AoE spell. Instead it has the relative disadvantages of both types of spells (people must be present at the time of casting and they lose the effect if they leave) and neither of their relative advantages (people can't gain/regain the effect after the cast or keep the buff if they leave.) I don't have access to the code, but it seems like it should be a proper pulse to group spell like Rage of the Clans and the pulsing part of the spell simply isn't triggering properly. Whatever it is, making it either a properly functioning pulse to group spell or simply a standard group/AoE spell is better than where it is right now. The feedback on this one is also not very good. We only see ourselves being affected, not others like with Rage of the Clans. It's a bit better than Faenella's Grace, however, since at least those affected by it do see it in their spell window.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
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JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 12:47 PM CST
I still wish Resonance, Ignite, and Rutilors Edge were all self-cast Utility that pulsed to held weapon. Like the way Tsunami works!
Does RAGE need an update? I thought straight OF buffs were supposed to be fixed?
ABSOLON
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 01:06 PM CST
<<Does RAGE need an update? I thought straight OF buffs were supposed to be fixed?
Rage boosts accuracy, not OF.
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Rage boosts accuracy, not OF.
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THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 01:57 PM CST
>>>>A few lore posts that flesh out history, defining traits, ideologies, key NPCs, etc. would be nice.
>>That's a much more likely fate for Heritages.
On the list of perhaps not worth the ROI, what about the Guild on Aesry?
>>That's a much more likely fate for Heritages.
On the list of perhaps not worth the ROI, what about the Guild on Aesry?
DR-RAESH
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/02/2016 02:12 PM CST
>>On the list of perhaps not worth the ROI, what about the Guild on Aesry?
Ask Evike.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Ask Evike.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
PRIMEQ
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/04/2016 01:22 AM CST
>>Also with Sanctuary, I can't seem to get it to do anything except preventing creature spawn. Granted, I can't put a tonne of mana into it, since it's a relatively hard cyclic to cast in the grand scheme of things, but there should be some level of locate protection if the dome is forming, yes?
There are three effects based on mana: 1) creature-spawn prevention, 2) locate/clairvoyance prevention, 3) hiding/stealth prevention. It sounds like you are only using enough mana to get the first effect. The messaging here could also certainly stand an upgrade.
Any word on Call of the Siren? Is that ever coming back? What about the "Ice Shotgun" spell once mentioned as in the works? And the new busking system?
- Navesi
There are three effects based on mana: 1) creature-spawn prevention, 2) locate/clairvoyance prevention, 3) hiding/stealth prevention. It sounds like you are only using enough mana to get the first effect. The messaging here could also certainly stand an upgrade.
Any word on Call of the Siren? Is that ever coming back? What about the "Ice Shotgun" spell once mentioned as in the works? And the new busking system?
- Navesi
ABSOLON
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/04/2016 01:57 AM CST
<<There are three effects based on mana: 1) creature-spawn prevention, 2) locate/clairvoyance prevention, 3) hiding/stealth prevention. It sounds like you are only using enough mana to get the first effect.
I'm aware of the tiered effect based on mana, but my point is that with the mana level I'm using I should be getting the second tier effect by now. I'm not capping it, but neither am I casting it with low amounts. Does the dome change description as you reach higher tiers?
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I'm aware of the tiered effect based on mana, but my point is that with the mana level I'm using I should be getting the second tier effect by now. I'm not capping it, but neither am I casting it with low amounts. Does the dome change description as you reach higher tiers?
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DR-RAESH
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/04/2016 02:51 AM CST
>>Any word on Call of the Siren? Is that ever coming back?
Still just needs someone to find the time to convert it. I figure it's a medium difficulty conversion.
>>What about the "Ice Shotgun" spell once mentioned as in the works?
New TM spells are tricky - mostly because they've very time consuming to write (See: TM damage tables) and until we fix some other things with TM they're not actually that appealing in most cases.
>>And the new busking system?
That's all Ricinus so I can't speak to it.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Still just needs someone to find the time to convert it. I figure it's a medium difficulty conversion.
>>What about the "Ice Shotgun" spell once mentioned as in the works?
New TM spells are tricky - mostly because they've very time consuming to write (See: TM damage tables) and until we fix some other things with TM they're not actually that appealing in most cases.
>>And the new busking system?
That's all Ricinus so I can't speak to it.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ILLIENA
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/04/2016 03:19 AM CST
> Does the dome change description as you reach higher tiers?
Yes. From "a dome of faintly shimmering light" at the lowest, to "a large dome of shimmering light" at mid tier and then "a large dome of bright light" at highest.
Yes. From "a dome of faintly shimmering light" at the lowest, to "a large dome of shimmering light" at mid tier and then "a large dome of bright light" at highest.
ABSOLON
Re: Abilities in limbo
01/04/2016 03:56 AM CST
Thanks! Looks like someone added it to the wiki in my absence, so I didn't see the new information and table at the bottom. I'll clean that up so it's cleaner.
Looks like I'm right at the breakpoint for the next tier. I should be able to get it by either a few ranks or by increasing my integrity stance a few percent at most.
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Looks like I'm right at the breakpoint for the next tier. I should be able to get it by either a few ranks or by increasing my integrity stance a few percent at most.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
