Sorry to necro this post Kodius, but you mentioned here that you would do some more testing on lower circle Barbarians and report back. I'm a lower circle Barbarian and trying to plan when to get my first Mastery, and it's largely dependent on how many abilities I can maintain without it. Any chance you could post your thoughts so I can make an informed decision?

I've considered trying to do that, but most of the stuff I really want while I level up is in other paths. Dragon, Eagle, Avalanche, Tenacity and Wildfire all seem really helpful while leveling up. Flame path only has stat buffs (which having low augmentation will mean they're pretty weak) and Tsunami, which is an expert berserk which makes me think it'll be basically useless until I get more magic skills. Death's Shriek also seems really cool, but I have the same concerns with that.

I feel like my choice is rush to powermonger, so I can use a plethora of abilities that are only going to be marginally useful for the foreseeable future... Or pick abilities from all the trees, but only be able to use a couple at a time.

I would really love to know how many forms and berserks I can truly expect to be able to use without powermonger. If can keep 2 forms up, with 1-2 berserks, and meditations done in advance, then I don't feel like I need to rush for powermonger. Posts on these forums seem to suggest that isn't possible though without powermonger or very high skills.

I guess my primary question here is this:

At ~200 IF/Aug/Warding how many forms, berserks and meditations can we run without powermonger?

I don't see stats coming into play anywhere on how IF consumption is managed, so I assume my stats won't matter for this question, but if I'm wrong there assume average stats for a Circle 40-50 character?

As another datapoint, with powermonger I went from being able to use 2-3 forms and 1 berserk, to being able to use 4-5 forms, 2 berserks. It's a ridiculously massive difference, and I wish I'd picked it up waaaaaaaaaay earlier.

Looks good, I personally have no use for screech of madness, You may want to skip that and just get powermonger slightly later?

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For what its worth;

I almost always go Roar rage, Avalanche, Famine, then work my way to powermonger.

Those three can train what you need in magic while at the same time are very friendly for noobs. I just power run both zercs and roar quiet rage to kill a little faster. Powermonger helps, but by 34th circle or whatever, your IF management won't be quite the same problem it is now.

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Thank you all for the advice. I've decided to go with this plan for now:

Levels 1-40 (in this order):

Avalanche (*used infrequently)
Rage (*primary roar)
Dragon (*primary form while working melee)
Tenacity (*always used, help with warding since meditate research is slow)
Wildfire(*primary zerk)
Python (used if I need extra defense...probably in lieu of Dragon if I cannot maintain 2 forms at once)
Focus or Anger (extra point in Horde tree)
Earthquake (*train debil if I'm in town)
Power
Contemplation (*always used)
Monkey (probably won't be used as I can't run more than 1 form)
Swan (used to train warding more efficiently)
Bear (wish I could run this and Dragon...if I can, I will!)
Eagle (I should have 200 bow by now...dual load awesomeness)
...other stuff in Flame until level 62 when I get Powermonger

Then, if I feel weak and I'm sad I can't use enough abilities at once partway through, I'll FORGET ALL and go with some plan that gives me Powermonger. I'm guessing that Dragon + Wildfire, plus stuff like Earthquake and Tenacity will be more exciting and enjoyable than the Flame tree while leveling up. Getting a Str + Warding buff, or a Reflex + balance buff as my primary combat buffs for my first 40 levels seems pretty dull to me. I'd rather go with the more exciting stuff sooner and risk having to FORGET ALL if I'm feeling too limited, rather than walk down a path of relatively run of the mill buffs of anti-magic abilities that probably won't be useful until much later anyway.

It doesn't train debil?

Hm, okay. Thanks for the tip. I was definitely planning to pick it up on my way up the Flame tree, but I assumed it would take a backseat to Dragon if I can only use one form. If not, I'll use that in conjunction with Dragon.

Even a 2 point increase to reflex is noticeable at low ranks as is balance regeneration. The former helps to avoid hits, the latter helps recover faster from stuns and certain maneuvers.

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> Even a 2 point increase to reflex is noticeable at low ranks as is balance regeneration. The former helps to avoid hits, the latter helps recover faster from stuns and certain maneuvers.

I'd say the same about strength. Going from a burden to no burden is one of the best things you can do for your character. Weapons, skins, boxes... they're heavy.

>I'd say the same about strength. Going from a burden to no burden is one of the best things you can do for your character. Weapons, skins, boxes... they're heavy.

I disagree. As someone who plays a ton of novice characters, it is dead simple to remove things and hit no burden, and 2 strength has an almost negligible impact on everything else. 2 points of reflex is huge, even with massive armor hindrance. And you can't dump junk to increase that.

Most people, even novices, don't run around with a ton of burden. I'd say typically burdened for a novice. While this does have an effect on combat it's not that large of one. Once you start getting into heavy burden and higher, then the burden penalty starts to become more noticeable. I'd say the benefit of increased strength at low level is extending the time that you can stay in combat before the burden penalty becomes too large to handle rather than an immediately noticeable improvement in ability.

This is also dependent on your looting style. I'm of the stow everything as I loot it camp in order to avoid calling the janitor as much as possible, so a strength buff at low level does increase how long I can stay in combat before I start taking hits I normally would not have. Someone who leaves bundles and/or boxes on the ground would probably not need the buff for this purpose.

This also doesn't really apply to higher level, since people typically have enough base STR/STA to have a buffer before they even reach light burden. Heck, even with two bags full of boxes and a full bundle I only reach burdened or so at this point, and my str/sta are only around 40-45.

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<<Using a complete novice, wearing a full clown suit from the Crossings store, and 6+ weapons from the crossings store, plus any guild specific kit, at 10-15 strength, you should not have any burden outside hunting.

Something is off with your assessment.

> enc
Encumbrance : Burdened
> inv combat
All of your combat:

a metal scale balaclava
a narrow-headed spear
a rugged leather jerkin
some metal chain vambraces
a metal target shield
a polished steel parry stick
some metal scale gloves
some metal chain greaves
[Type INVENTORY HELP for more options]
> weal

Wealth:
No Kronars.
No Lirums.
No Dokoras.

> inv list
>
You take a moment and rummage about your person, taking stock of your possessions...

You have:

a lumpy bundle
-a hog hoof
a metal scale balaclava
a pale wolfskin cloak
a petite hedgehog wearing a vermilion knit hat
a narrow-headed spear
a sleek leather haversack
a pale wolfskin backpack
-some wild corn
-a double-bit greataxe
-a big-noggin throwing hammer
-a reinforced elder hirdu bow
-a deed register
-an osage kingsnake bead
-an elm wolverine bead
-a cut crystal chalice wrapped with silver wire
-some holy water
-a cleaning cloth
-some dogfish sandpaper
-some wood stain
-some wood glue
-some metal clamps
-an engineering work order logbook
-a rugged leather weapon harness
-an ilmenite runestone marked with a symbol for Clear Vision
-some bundling rope
-some wild corn
-a petite hedgehog wearing a vermilion knit hat
-a milky white jar covered in black glitter spots
-a golden-rayed sun banded in warm sunrise hues
-a redwood kingsnake bead
-a carving knife
-a woodcutting saw
-a book of apprentice shaping instructions
-a simple design codex
-a metal drawknife
-a thin iron rasp
-a wood shaper
a dark green cotton gamantang
a rugged leather jerkin
a braided cambrinth armband
some metal chain vambraces
a metal target shield
a small steel skinning knife with a leather-wrapped hilt
a polished steel parry stick
some metal scale gloves
a grey cambrinth ring
a black gem pouch (closed)
a lockpick ring
a hammered copper tailband
some well-made jade green brushed cotton trousers
some metal chain greaves
a beaded suede quiver
-some cougar-claw arrows

Roundtime: 4 secs

[Type INVENTORY HELP for more options]
R> info

>
Name: Redacted Race: S'Kra Mur Guild: Ranger
Gender: Male Age: 19 Circle: 16
You were born on the 21st day of the 1st month of Akroeg the Ram (Sur2) in the year of the Bronze Wyvern, 400 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Your birthday is 30 days away.

Strength : 19 Reflex : 18
Agility : 16 Charisma : 16
Discipline : 16 Wisdom : 15
Intelligence : 15 Stamina : 16

Concentration : 86 Max : 86

Favors : 20
TDPs : 161
Encumbrance : Burdened

Wealth:
No Kronars.
No Lirums.
No Dokoras.

Debt:
No debt.

>

> count gem pouch
You sort through the contents of the gem pouch and find 8 gems in it. It is tied.

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Kind of off-topic, but here's my warrior mage with one bundle 3/4 full. 40th circle.

Your birthday is more than 4 months away.

Strength : 28 Reflex : 25 +
Agility : 22 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 24 Wisdom : 34
Intelligence : 35 Stamina : 24

Concentration : 148 Max : 148

Favors : 7
TDPs : 94
Encumbrance : Somewhat Burdened

That's with no extra weapons (summoning). I drop down to none when I remove the bundle, but that goes back up with a couple more weapons, especially two-handed ones. I'm using gloves and head gear for all armor types.

<<You've got at least 3 massive weapons (greataxe, throwing hammer, spear) which could be replaced with lighter variants from Crossings.

The greataxe is from the Crossing shop and is 10 stones lighter than the only other option there for that skill. The spear is also from that shop and is the lightest polearm option there by 25 stones. The throwing hammer is technically not strictly necessary due to the spear, but it makes training far easier since using LOB with the spear was resulting in noticeable accuracy issues and there isn't a non-piercing HT sold anywhere in Crossing at newbie prices.

<<You als have an odd duplication thing going on, unless you really do have two hedgehogs and armor sets?

Two hedgehogs, yes. That extra 5 stone is killer. INV LIST and INV COMBAT list the same armour pieces. I included the inv combat output so you could easily see the armor set-up.

<<There's also a container inside your backpack that could house a lot of weight.

INV LIST lists everything inside of containers unless they're closed, which it is not so that container is empty. This is why I included a count of my tied gem pouch which as you'll see in the list is closed.

<<I don't know what you guys are doing. I've literally never had burden outside hunting. Are you carrying around 4000 random items? I mean, you would have to be, to have that burden at 30 strength. Even wearing full plate.

You must "literally" be carrying nothing but your armor and weapons and containers to hold them if you have zero burden at 10 strength and stamina. People craft. People have hobbies. People wear pants.

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Honestly would like to see more special attacks of anything. Barbs since they don't have any spells can get a bit boring during hunting.

A post was hidden. Please try to address the points being made instead of attacking other posters.

Thanks,
Adilea

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My lowbie is a Gnome. I have ~20 in all stats except charisma ~10. I use Buffalo out of combat to haul my tiny body around if I'm burdened. I use Bear in combat to give the extra "umph" to my combat hits and manage encumbrance problems from skins and loot. Once I get my STR/STAM up a bit more then Monkey is it for me. Of course by that time I'll probably have Powermonger so it won't be an either or choice.

We're getting a bit off the secondary poster's question though. He/She has opinions to beeline to Powermonger and spread out selections to get Dragon/Eagle because the Flame tree is pretty anti-magic extensive. I'm testing out the beeline path (as Rhadyn was 85th circle when I started playing again and didn't have to go through the whole lowbie thing). I think my plan is good but I'll PAFO. No harm no foul if I'm wrong but at least we'll all still be barbs and not silly finger wagglers.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
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