Inner Fire 02/03/2013 03:37 PM CST
Squanto came up with a good idea on putting up some kind of comprehensive guide to Inner Fire, so I was wondering if everyone could post their findings in this folder, and perhaps someone could put together a nice article on EPedia for Inner Fire. Off the top of my head here's what I understand so far.

*Meditate Power checks your abilities as well as give us an IF 'bar' so to speak.

*If you count every dash and arrow in your IF bar when you use Med Power, there's 81 total increments.

*There is a vertical line that shows where your passive IF regain is. Assuming there are no forms up, it should stop at the 27th increment. 27/81 = 1/3.

*Forms do not have an Inner Fire cost at startup, mainly because they reduce this vertical line/passive regain cap. Example, if you use one form and count where the passive regain cap is, it may be on the 23/81 mark. Add another, it could be at the 19th mark. So while the actual startup of the form doesn't cost IF, in effect, once you use them your IF will start draining to match your new passive regain cap.

*Forms have different costs to the regain cap based off an individual's Inner Fire skill. For me, I think Piranha form drops me from 27/81 total increments to about 23/81. Whereas Turtle form drops me from 27/81 to 17/81. So the cost of each form varies.

*Because forms don't have a startup cost, you can switch through forms immediately with pretty much no difficulty. I shifted through all my forms in under a minute and my Inner Fire level was still the same.

*Forms do pulse and cost Inner Fire however. So if you throw up 5'ish forms at the same time, after some time I believe they will all pulse near each other and can drain a lot of Inner Fire. Individually, the IF cost for when they pulse is very minimum.

*If you are going to run Forms and Meditations, I suggest activating meditations first. They will reduce your Inner Fire upon startup, and then you can activate forms so that they will reduce the passive regain cap. You can potentially save on a little fire this way. If you activate Forms first, they will reduce your passive regain cap in you will immediately start losing Inner Fire while activating your meditations because your IF is draining to the new passive regain cap, and THEN lose more inner fire when your meditations activate.

So forms are very tricky. It'll take a lot of playing around to find out some combinations you enjoy. Kodius confirmed that more IF skill will reduce how many increments a form takes up, and of course this varies from form to form.

In order of most effective use: Start meditations first, then forms (it takes a minute or two for them to reach their full power, they start off weak), then berserks (these have shorter durations, IF cost upon startup, and IF cost upon pulsing, so you don't want to start these off too early).

Hopefully that helps some, and maybe some of the plans Kodius has for IF help alleviate how costly IF is. I seriously don't think some people who haven't experienced it understand how it is right now.



Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 03:39 PM CST
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Barbarian_Guide

I give a breakdown of meditate flame and meditate power here, as well as how forms interact with inner fire versus berserks/meditations. I'm still in the process of editing it, if anyone wants to look it over and suggest formatting tips or anything they feel needs to be added, please do post suggestions.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 03:44 PM CST
>>*If you are going to run Forms and Meditations, I suggest activating meditations first. They will reduce your Inner Fire upon startup, and then you can activate forms so that they will reduce the passive regain cap. You can potentially save on a little fire this way. If you activate Forms first, they will reduce your passive regain cap in you will immediately start losing Inner Fire while activating your meditations because your IF is draining to the new passive regain cap, and THEN lose more inner fire when your meditations activate.

Just to add to this. There were times when I used 2 meditations immediately and after activating forms, my new passive regain cap was above the amount of Inner Fire I had left and I started regaining IF to the new passive cap. So it was like a combination; The forms had no cost of IF whatsoever during this situation. So yeah unless you're testing or something, I suggest always always activating meditations first.

Getting an idea of the impact every single one of your abilities have on your IF will be key. I know I can do combinations that someone with lower IF skill may not be able to achieve effectively, and vice versa. :D



Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 03:56 PM CST
>>I give a breakdown of meditate flame and meditate power here, as well as how forms interact with inner fire versus berserks/meditations. I'm still in the process of editing it, if anyone wants to look it over and suggest formatting tips or anything they feel needs to be added, please do post suggestions.

That should help tremendously. One incorrect thing I noticed on the Elanthipedia page:

>>Forms are a Barbarian's most basic buffs. They last a long time, and cost very little inner fire to start and to maintain;

They don't have an IF startup cost, just an IF maintenance cost. But you will start losing IF because of the new regain cap being lower. Here's a quick 'form cycling' example, and as you can see no amount of form setups lowered IF upon startup, but if I leave them active my IF will start draining to reach the new cap:

>med power
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Roundtime: 8 sec.

The burning symbols indicate no abilities are currently affecting you.

>med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you. (1/3)

>form monkey
An interesting fluidity fills your muscles as you assume the movements of an agile monkey!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>form bear
A lumbering strength fills your body as you assume the movements of a hungry bear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>form dragon
You slowly center yourself, your mind growing quiet as a quickly building rage surges through your body, your limbs quaking with its boundless strength. A terrible roar of fury and bloodlust rips from your throat as the Form of the Dragon consumes you, only a thread of control fighting back the descent into a berserker's madness.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.
A steady wind interferes with the aura forming around you.

You recall that you have 9 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 8 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>form stop all
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Dragon.
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Bear.
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Monkey.
>

>form piran
Your movements begin to mimic the rapid rythm of the piranha.
Roundtime: 2 sec.

>med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.
A calm breeze interferes with the aura shining about you.

You recall that you have 9 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 8 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>form stop all
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Piranha.
>
>form eagle
Scanning the distance, you acutely focus on distant targets waiting the full wrath you intend to deliver. With a shriek you begin to flex your hands in preparation of unleashing a distant mortal blow upon your enemies!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.
A slight draft interferes with the aura shining about you.

You recall that you have 9 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 8 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>form stop all
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Eagle.
>form owl
As you draw upon the behavior of an alert owl your eyes begin to transfix upon the surrounding shadows where danger may lurk.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>med flame
You begin to meditate upon the chakrel amulet, your inner fire swelling as you center your mind, body, and spirit.
Surrounding your reflection is a bright aura of beautiful flames extending a quarter of your height above you.
A calm breeze interferes with the aura shining about you.

You recall that you have 9 training sessions remaining with the Guild.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Horde.
You have received training in 10 abilities from the Path of the Flame.
You have received training in 8 abilities from the Path of the Predator.

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>form stop all
You feel your inner fire cool as you finish practicing the Form of the Owl.


Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 04:00 PM CST
>>They don't have an IF startup cost, just an IF maintenance cost. But you will start losing IF because of the new regain cap being lower. Here's a quick 'form cycling' example, and as you can see no amount of form setups lowered IF upon startup, but if I leave them active my IF will start draining to reach the new cap:

Thanks, corrected.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 04:17 PM CST
From what I can tell, you can only have up to five forms running at a time.



Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 04:25 PM CST
With 858 IF, I passively refilled my IF pool from 0 - 1/3 in roughly 7 minutes and 26 seconds.



Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 05:24 PM CST
Can you do graphs on epedia?

>>With 858 IF, I passively refilled my IF pool from 0 - 1/3 in roughly 7 minutes and 26 seconds.

information like this would work so well in a graph, get someone to test at every hundred ranks and you would have a nice graph that probably would be a fairly accurate representation of the IF regen scale.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 06:22 PM CST
Just a note - IF skill does not affect passive IF regen rate. The time in between regen pulses is quite large, however. I'm still investigating a better way to handle this.

So when folks say it took "forever" for their IF to regen.. I don't get it. 7 minutes isn't terrible... and ways to improve that will be coming once I can divorce the regen from what it is currently tied to.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 06:24 PM CST
>>From what I can tell, you can only have up to five forms running at a time.

Have you tried using the three intro forms (Buffalo/Dragon/Eagle) and three basic forms (Swan/Piranha/Monkey/Python)?

Thanks for the data point.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 06:27 PM CST
>>Just a note - IF skill does not affect passive IF regen rate. The time in between regen pulses is quite large, however. I'm still investigating a better way to handle this.

Can you elaborate on this Kodius? I thought Inner Fire ranks affected passive regen.

Assuming the fundamental principles work the same as with magic, augmentation/warding would handle how efficiently we use our inner fire (i.e. the "cost" of activating abilities), correct? If Inner Fire doesn't boost regen rate, then I'm confused as to what purpose it could actively serve.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 07:04 PM CST
>>Have you tried using the three intro forms (Buffalo/Dragon/Eagle) and three basic forms (Swan/Piranha/Monkey/Python)?

This is what I had going on:

You are currently practicing the Bear Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Buffalo Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Monkey Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
>>>>>>>>>>|
11/81

You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.



Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 07:54 PM CST
>>So when folks say it took "forever" for their IF to regen.. I don't get it. 7 minutes isn't terrible... and ways to improve that will be coming once I can divorce the regen from what it is currently tied to.<<

I'd agree if it took mana that long to regen and it doesn't.

Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 10:09 PM CST
>>This is what I had going on:

Bear is an advanced form. You could probably swap it for about the same cost as Eagle and Swan which would bring your form total to six, if you had any interest in doing so. Thanks again for the data points.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 10:17 PM CST
I get the same message doing what you suggested: You find yourself unable to focus on an additional form. Perhaps try stopping one first?

Also, similar power situation:

You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Buffalo Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Eagle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > | > > > > > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.


Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 10:19 PM CST
>>I get the same message doing what you suggested: You find yourself unable to focus on an additional form. Perhaps try stopping one first?

Interesting, I suppose there is a hard cap of five forms. Good to know.

I am amused that you have five forms active and your passive regen only dropped that much. Something to look forward to.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 10:41 PM CST
5 forms, 3 berserks and 2 meditiations are the max, I believe.



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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 10:56 PM CST
You can have up to 3 meditations up at once.

But be warned - If you put up 3 meditations then you'll be unable to use Meditation Power or Flame. :)



Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 10:59 PM CST

Swan/Dragon/Piranha/Owl/Turtle/Flashflood/Cyclone/Tornado/Tenacity/Bastion/Contemplation?

WTB 1750 Inner Fire ranks. Maybe if I mail Kodius a box of Dunkin donuts...?
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Re: Inner Fire 02/03/2013 11:06 PM CST
>>But be warned - If you put up 3 meditations then you'll be unable to use Meditation Power or Flame. :)

be nice if those were excluded! :) Also Kodius, did you update the cost for Focus? If so thanks, it looks like you did. Appreciate it!

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
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Re: Inner Fire 02/04/2013 07:00 AM CST
I only goofed with it a little bit, but I can only put up 4 berserks at a time. It seemed I had enough IF left to put up another, but basically couldn't.



Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/04/2013 11:58 PM CST
>>But be warned - If you put up 3 meditations then you'll be unable to use Meditation Power or Flame. :)

That should be fixed? Can you double check?



"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Inner Fire 02/05/2013 12:22 AM CST
<<5 forms, 3 berserks and 2 meditiations are the max, I believe.>>

Heh, at the risk of knowing it will be my [character's] total annihilation, I still can't help but say I am totally looking forward to seeing what a barb with those maxed can do in the slaughter field.
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Re: Inner Fire 02/05/2013 05:14 AM CST
>>Heh, at the risk of knowing it will be my [character's] total annihilation, I still can't help but say I am totally looking forward to seeing what a barb with those maxed can do in the slaughter field.

Looks likes it's 5 forms, 4 berserks, and 3 meditations, so it's even better!
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