Previous
I think the fill rate of the pool needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, due to hitting creature caps (at the high levels, anyway), moving the IF bar over 1/3 is impossible with lower damage weapons. I am unsure how IF is awarded, but I think it needs to be uptweaked. I toss up 4 forms and 2 meditations with 853 IF and always see the bar at roughly 25% or so with my normal weapon rotation. The only time I see it move slightly higher is when I kill with a greatsword. Is there a way to a.) award more IF per each kill? and or b.) award more IF per hit? For instance, if you use LT, you're never going to fill your pool to 100%, with the combo I am using. I have no issue holding my forms for incredibly long times (probably for as long as I can live in combat), and my meditations drop by virtue of what seems a timer, but my pool just will not fill.
Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
JARAGONA
BUUWL
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 08:55 AM CST
I'd love to see a very very slow regen on IF to 100 as well, like two hours or something.
Does genie have an inner fire bar?
- Buuwl
Does genie have an inner fire bar?
- Buuwl
SMILINGSON
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 08:58 AM CST
<<Does genie have an inner fire bar?
I wish! I'm using the gimp method of looking at the broken IF bar in genie...not exactly ideal or intuitive for me, but since i'm no pro script writer/coder in genie i'll patiently wait for someone else to do the work.
Voice of Trothfang, Pranx
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 01:14 PM CST
>>I think the fill rate of the pool needs to be addressed.
I agree. You're only getting a bonus inner fire rate if you kill once per minute, and the regen bonus doesn't appear to be very substantial.
I'm holding judgment until I see what the higher levels of chakrel are capable of doing. If I had a quest-quality chakrel capable of completely filling my IF to full once per day, I'd probably be completely fine with the way the system works.
I agree. You're only getting a bonus inner fire rate if you kill once per minute, and the regen bonus doesn't appear to be very substantial.
I'm holding judgment until I see what the higher levels of chakrel are capable of doing. If I had a quest-quality chakrel capable of completely filling my IF to full once per day, I'd probably be completely fine with the way the system works.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 02:14 PM CST
I wish there was something that upped inner fire, either improving the regen or giving a one time shot of it.
At 112 IF, I can keep up one form and one meditation, but adding much else will zero me out pretty quick.
At 112 IF, I can keep up one form and one meditation, but adding much else will zero me out pretty quick.
IPECAC
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 02:30 PM CST
Keeping Turtle, Swan, and Bear up for my training during my hunting routine in juves, I've yet to see my Inner Fire lift any more than one or two ticks above the passive regen cap (which is basically tanked with those three forms running, lol). They appraise as training somewhat poorly for most of my weapons, but seem to offer the best training in 3.0 that I've found thus far.
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
VEE-REX
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 03:25 PM CST
>>I wish there was something that upped inner fire, either improving the regen or giving a one time shot of it.
I think Kodius is working on something that will help with Inner Fire. If you go to the cave and see Drathrok, he'll give you a list of maneuvers that he can teach for each Barbarian path.
You need 10 abilities from a particular path to gain a list of maneuvers. Drathrok described the maneuver called Templar as being a way to crush/destroy magical items to regain Inner Fire. Don't know the details or when Kodius will be ready to release maneuvers but it shows he got some stuff planned.
I'd say give it a month or two to let the 3.0 dust settle.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I think Kodius is working on something that will help with Inner Fire. If you go to the cave and see Drathrok, he'll give you a list of maneuvers that he can teach for each Barbarian path.
You need 10 abilities from a particular path to gain a list of maneuvers. Drathrok described the maneuver called Templar as being a way to crush/destroy magical items to regain Inner Fire. Don't know the details or when Kodius will be ready to release maneuvers but it shows he got some stuff planned.
I'd say give it a month or two to let the 3.0 dust settle.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 03:28 PM CST
I'm getting a bad habit of double posting but it's possible Drathrok's maneuver list may not be the final version. I know younger Barbarians may not hit 10 in one path, and so perhaps another more circle-friendly method for helping Inner Fire could be developed.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 04:29 PM CST
What Squanto said. I'm not a fan of only having 33% of my fire when I start hunting. I get to start two meditations, wait a few minutes(wasting time on the meditations I can't start in combat), and then hope I kill fast enough to gather enough fire so my forms and berserks don't drop off fast. I'd be ok with this if MUs had the same limitations, but they don't. I was watching a paladin hunt last night that was keeping 9 buffs up on himself at all time without any real difficulty, yet if I throw up 5 too fast my buffs drop and I can't do anything about it but hope what I'm hunting doesn't start chain stunning me. I really don't want to bring GvG into this, but honestly it pretty much sucks that other supernatural terts can throw on whatever buffs they want without limit and immediately recast them provided they have the mana(which regens faster than our fire to 100%).
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 08:02 PM CST
Pendus, you should be able to start two meditations and three forms immediately, without anything dropping early, once you are 100+. Once you start combat you can trigger a berserk not too long afterwards.
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 08:45 PM CST
That wasn't my main reason for posting. There's a very real possibility I'm making some mistakes since the IF bar doesn't work in Genie. My real point is that MUs aren't hard capped or penalized in any way for keeping their abilities up and running and if they don't tank their mana casting TM spells, they can keep them up and running indefinitely. I'm looking at a 150th paladin right now with less PM than I have IF and he has 9 buffs up and running for 40 minutes. His mana pool is at 100%. So if he has one drop he just recasts it and he's good to go. If one of mine drops and I haven't killed enough to be at 100% IF, I'm not able to put it back up. If I started at 100% IF, or even 75% these issues go away. Some of these may go away with the feats and Expertise. I have no idea what the plans are for those.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
GORTEOUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 09:06 PM CST
Agreed. IF needs some serious re-balancing.
With the way it is now, there's not even a point in having fire past 33% - if you're hunting and you have buffs up, killing just (not quite) makes up for the non-existent regen past 33%. I haven't seen half a full pool of fire and all I've done in the past 5 days is hunt. The only buffs used are the ones to not get shredded by ints(since elders dont teach) - Contemplation, Piranha, Tornado and Eagle or Dragon.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
With the way it is now, there's not even a point in having fire past 33% - if you're hunting and you have buffs up, killing just (not quite) makes up for the non-existent regen past 33%. I haven't seen half a full pool of fire and all I've done in the past 5 days is hunt. The only buffs used are the ones to not get shredded by ints(since elders dont teach) - Contemplation, Piranha, Tornado and Eagle or Dragon.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 09:21 PM CST
Just as an example, he's my cleric. He's 136th.
You reach out with your senses and see brilliant streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is shining mana to the west, luminous mana to the east, and lambent mana to the northeast.
You sense the Auspice spell bolstering your spirit, which should last for about sixteen minutes.
You sense the Centering spell upon you, which will last for about fifteen roisaen.
You sense a weak Soul Shield enfolding your spirit, which should last for thirteen roisaen.
You sense the Benediction spell upon you, which will last for about ten roisaen.
You sense the Minor Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about fourteen roisaen.
You sense the Protection from Evil spell upon you, which will last for about twelve roisaen.
You sense your Sanyu Lyba spell linking you to a pygmy house spirit, who should stay for five minutes.
You sense the Major Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about fifteen roisaen.
You sense the Divine Radiance spell upon you, which will last for about sixteen roisaen.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
I did 20 preps since I had no idea how much would be his max and didn't care to. To get that all up and running took 2 minutes and that was only because I had to figure out what spells he had were buffs. At the end of those casts he was at 80% mana.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
You reach out with your senses and see brilliant streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is shining mana to the west, luminous mana to the east, and lambent mana to the northeast.
You sense the Auspice spell bolstering your spirit, which should last for about sixteen minutes.
You sense the Centering spell upon you, which will last for about fifteen roisaen.
You sense a weak Soul Shield enfolding your spirit, which should last for thirteen roisaen.
You sense the Benediction spell upon you, which will last for about ten roisaen.
You sense the Minor Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about fourteen roisaen.
You sense the Protection from Evil spell upon you, which will last for about twelve roisaen.
You sense your Sanyu Lyba spell linking you to a pygmy house spirit, who should stay for five minutes.
You sense the Major Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about fifteen roisaen.
You sense the Divine Radiance spell upon you, which will last for about sixteen roisaen.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
I did 20 preps since I had no idea how much would be his max and didn't care to. To get that all up and running took 2 minutes and that was only because I had to figure out what spells he had were buffs. At the end of those casts he was at 80% mana.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 10:22 PM CST
Remember our skills scale to 1000+ ranks, and remember that higher tiers of chakrel are coming out eventually. In other words, one uptweak will come with time and another uptweak will come with new items or creation systems, and there has to be room for improvement without the improvement raising the ceiling too high. I have no real issue with the buffs we can have active, pound for pound our abilities tend to be stronger than spells.
I agree with your fundamental problem though. 40% IF may as well be 100%, because it seems rather impossible to reach 100% unless you're buffing way below your ability. Even then, what's the point? Use less buffs so you can build inner fire so you can... use more buffs? The design doesn't make much sense to me.
I like the idea of unlocking our full potential in combat and decaying to a set point outside of combat, but I think a significant shift needs to occur somewhere. Either the IF generated by a kill needs to be increased substantially, or the timer for combat IF needs to be cut from 60 seconds to 30 seconds, or something.
I agree with your fundamental problem though. 40% IF may as well be 100%, because it seems rather impossible to reach 100% unless you're buffing way below your ability. Even then, what's the point? Use less buffs so you can build inner fire so you can... use more buffs? The design doesn't make much sense to me.
I like the idea of unlocking our full potential in combat and decaying to a set point outside of combat, but I think a significant shift needs to occur somewhere. Either the IF generated by a kill needs to be increased substantially, or the timer for combat IF needs to be cut from 60 seconds to 30 seconds, or something.
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/25/2013 11:27 PM CST
>>Remember our skills scale to 1000+ ranks, and remember that higher tiers of chakrel are coming out eventually. In other words, one uptweak will come with time and another uptweak will come with new items or creation systems, and there has to be room for improvement without the improvement raising the ceiling too high. I have no real issue with the buffs we can have active, pound for pound our abilities tend to be stronger than spells.<<
I'm aware, but so do the MU skills and my IF skill isn't that far from 1000 either. Doesn't change the fact that they can throw up every one of their buffs whenever they need to and barbs have to baby sit their abilities and manage a resource that requires constant killing to keep high to keep our abilities from running out fast.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
I'm aware, but so do the MU skills and my IF skill isn't that far from 1000 either. Doesn't change the fact that they can throw up every one of their buffs whenever they need to and barbs have to baby sit their abilities and manage a resource that requires constant killing to keep high to keep our abilities from running out fast.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 03:52 AM CST
>>Doesn't change the fact that they can throw up every one of their buffs whenever they need to
It is rather impossible for a magic user to throw on 5 buffs in 20 seconds. People keep saying they can, but that won't somehow make it true.
Even if they do manage to get a buff or two up, they'll be playing catch-up on their mana reserves. The Barbarian Guild's abilities are not going to match the effectiveness of mages in every way. It is your tertiary skillset afterall.
You all really need to keep in mind that Barbarians -
* Only require a few seconds to throw up Swan and/or Turtle, and receive substantial protection from magical attacks.
* Only require one second to call upon an Antistun/Immob ability, effectively neutralizing many of your opponents quick-attacks (Still need to add unconscious support to it)
* With preparation, can add Serenity and receive total magical immunity for a short time.
* Can instantly become invulnerable to death from damage for a short time.
* Can instantly lob roars at an opponent.
* Can buff primary skills that should already be outclassing at-circle opponents due to skillset placement.
* Mages with 9 buffs up generally have several exclusively for magic defense. Barbarian attacks are not magic and so you can pretty much ignore these.
* Cannot currently "fail" to activate an ability. If we increased IF regen this would have to be strongly considered. Not sure folks want a skillcheck everytime...
Food for thought... has anyone tried to fill their IF bar (using only meditations so the drain doesn't kill you), and then measure how many/how long you can keep up a combination of forms and berserks?
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are deeply enraged with the Wildfire Berserk.
You are deeply enraged with the Cyclone Berserk.
You are deeply enraged with the Tornado Berserk.
The Bastion meditation is fading from your mind.
The Contemplation meditation is fresh in your mind.
>>>>>>>>|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
Out of combat this setup lasted for about 4 minutes with a circle 66 Barbarian. Not great, but that will double if engaged and actively killing enemies.
Now with a circle 105 Barbarian:
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are completely consumed with the Wildfire Berserk.
You are completely consumed with the Cyclone Berserk.
You are completely consumed with the Tornado Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.
The Bastion meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
After 5 minutes, engaged but not killing anything:
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are thoroughly inflamed with the Wildfire Berserk.
You are strongly burning with the Cyclone Berserk.
You are thoroughly inflamed with the Tornado Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.
The Bastion meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|>
After just over 8 minutes the berserks began wearing off and I still had 12% inner fire... obviously with more skill everything would have lasted longer and I would have had more IF remaining. Had I actually killed anything my IF wouldn't have been so low. The remaining 5 abilities stayed up until they ran out naturally.
Anyhow, I do have plans to give additional options to Barbarians. We currently have 84 slots-worth of abilities (78 or so released) and folks should have 55 slots by circle 150. Obviously we need more options so the Guild ability-diversity increases some more :P
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
It is rather impossible for a magic user to throw on 5 buffs in 20 seconds. People keep saying they can, but that won't somehow make it true.
Even if they do manage to get a buff or two up, they'll be playing catch-up on their mana reserves. The Barbarian Guild's abilities are not going to match the effectiveness of mages in every way. It is your tertiary skillset afterall.
You all really need to keep in mind that Barbarians -
* Only require a few seconds to throw up Swan and/or Turtle, and receive substantial protection from magical attacks.
* Only require one second to call upon an Antistun/Immob ability, effectively neutralizing many of your opponents quick-attacks (Still need to add unconscious support to it)
* With preparation, can add Serenity and receive total magical immunity for a short time.
* Can instantly become invulnerable to death from damage for a short time.
* Can instantly lob roars at an opponent.
* Can buff primary skills that should already be outclassing at-circle opponents due to skillset placement.
* Mages with 9 buffs up generally have several exclusively for magic defense. Barbarian attacks are not magic and so you can pretty much ignore these.
* Cannot currently "fail" to activate an ability. If we increased IF regen this would have to be strongly considered. Not sure folks want a skillcheck everytime...
Food for thought... has anyone tried to fill their IF bar (using only meditations so the drain doesn't kill you), and then measure how many/how long you can keep up a combination of forms and berserks?
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are deeply enraged with the Wildfire Berserk.
You are deeply enraged with the Cyclone Berserk.
You are deeply enraged with the Tornado Berserk.
The Bastion meditation is fading from your mind.
The Contemplation meditation is fresh in your mind.
>>>>>>>>|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
Out of combat this setup lasted for about 4 minutes with a circle 66 Barbarian. Not great, but that will double if engaged and actively killing enemies.
Now with a circle 105 Barbarian:
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are completely consumed with the Wildfire Berserk.
You are completely consumed with the Cyclone Berserk.
You are completely consumed with the Tornado Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.
The Bastion meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
After 5 minutes, engaged but not killing anything:
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are thoroughly inflamed with the Wildfire Berserk.
You are strongly burning with the Cyclone Berserk.
You are thoroughly inflamed with the Tornado Berserk.
The Contemplation meditation is still burned into your mind.
The Bastion meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|>
After just over 8 minutes the berserks began wearing off and I still had 12% inner fire... obviously with more skill everything would have lasted longer and I would have had more IF remaining. Had I actually killed anything my IF wouldn't have been so low. The remaining 5 abilities stayed up until they ran out naturally.
Anyhow, I do have plans to give additional options to Barbarians. We currently have 84 slots-worth of abilities (78 or so released) and folks should have 55 slots by circle 150. Obviously we need more options so the Guild ability-diversity increases some more :P
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
JARAGONA
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 07:51 AM CST
I don't know how you pulled that off. I put up bear, buffalo, monkey, pirhana, contemplation and tenacity (one after the other), and kill as fast as I can. The best I have done is gotten up against the 1/3 mark. After a quick pulse, it fell down a notch. The forms last very long, and then eventually the meditations drop. I'll be at say 25% and go put up one meditation, and don't have enough juice for the second. Then I go back into combat and everything starts dropping, forms first (which app as lasting very long), almost immediately. Is there some special thing I am missing out on here? 853 IF. The only way I can toss all 6 back up is to stop everything, wait several minutes, and put it all back up again.
Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
Squanto and his fully-grown raccoon, Zinaca.
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 12:24 PM CST
>>It is rather impossible for a magic user to throw on 5 buffs in 20 seconds. People keep saying they can, but that won't somehow make it true. <<
>>Even if they do manage to get a buff or two up, they'll be playing catch-up on their mana reserves. The Barbarian Guild's abilities are not going to match the effectiveness of mages in every way. It is your tertiary skillset afterall.<<
I just did 6 buffs with my 136th cleric in 24 seconds. Each of these was prepped to 20 mana and cast after 3 seconds of prep time. At the end I was at 74% mana. Within 45 seconds I was back to full mana. I've put the debug info into the log so everyone can see the very basic script I made with these random buffs.
[Script loaded: buffcleric.cmd]
buffcleric.cmd(3): [put prep pfe 20]
[buffcleric]: prep pfe 20
buffcleric.cmd(4): [pause 4]
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Protection from Evil spell.
>
buffcleric.cmd(5): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(6): [put prep mpp 20]
[buffcleric]: prep mpp 20
buffcleric.cmd(7): [pause 4]
You gesture.
You are bathed in a soft white glow for a moment.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Minor Physical Protection spell.
>
buffcleric.cmd(8): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(9): [put prep mapp 20]
[buffcleric]: prep mapp 20
buffcleric.cmd(10): [pause 4]
You gesture.
You are bathed in a soft silver glow for a moment.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Major Physical Protection spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
buffcleric.cmd(11): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(12): [put prep sos 20]
[buffcleric]: prep sos 20
buffcleric.cmd(13): [pause 4]
You gesture.
A bright silver nimbus roars up around you as streaks of steel-blue light descend in a convex field.
A sense of calm focus takes hold as the luminous pattern washes over you. You feel slightly more able to avoid attacks with your energized joints.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Soul Shield spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
buffcleric.cmd(14): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(15): [put prep bene 20]
[buffcleric]: prep bene 20
buffcleric.cmd(16): [pause 4]
You gesture.
A lucent sphere glistens around you, enfolding your spirit.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Benediction spell.
>
buffcleric.cmd(17): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(18): [put prep auspice 20]
[buffcleric]: prep auspice 20
buffcleric.cmd(19): [pause 4]
You make a holy gesture and intone reverently, "Kuniyo, hear my plea!"
You feel the divinity seep from your bones as the previous blessing of Kuniyo wanes.
You suddenly feel more limber, your reflexes charged with a faint energy.
Suddenly your muscles flood with energy, singing with a faint vigor.
A surge of faint energy tingles through every nerve in your body, leaving you feeling more dexterous.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Auspice spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
buffcleric.cmd(20): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
[Script finished (In 24 seconds): buffcleric.cmd]
You gesture.
A shaft of brilliant white light descends from the heavens, bathing you in its radiance.
Your spirit sings with a sudden added vigor.
>
You feel fully rested.
> conc
You reach out with your senses and see brilliant streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is shining mana to the west, luminous mana to the east, and lambent mana to the northeast.
You sense the Auspice spell bolstering your spirit, which should last for about sixteen minutes.
You sense a weak Soul Shield enfolding your spirit, which should last for sixteen roisaen.
You sense the Major Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about sixteen roisaen.
You sense the Minor Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about eighteen roisaen.
You sense the Protection from Evil spell upon you, which will last for about sixteen roisaen.
You sense the Benediction spell upon you, which will last for about fourteen roisaen.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Granted they may not all be the most useful buffs for PvE(I just picked 6 random cleric buffs to prove my point), but to say it's rather impossible isn't accurate. I could have done it with shorter prep times if I so chose to. I just did it pretty easily and had plenty of mana to spare. You can say that I don't have max duration on those and that's correct, but why would I care if I can just throw them back up?
>>* Only require a few seconds to throw up Swan and/or Turtle, and receive substantial protection from magical attacks.<<
Not talking about PvP here, this is PvE and neither of these really do anything for PvE.
>>* Only require one second to call upon an Antistun/Immob ability, effectively neutralizing many of your opponents quick-attacks (Still need to add unconscious support to it) <<
Only if I have the IF to do so.
>>* With preparation, can add Serenity and receive total magical immunity for a short time.<<
Still not discussing PvP. And no MU needs to really prepare to get their normal buffs up and running. They can do it in under 30 seconds if they know what they are doing.
>>* Can instantly lob roars at an opponent. <<
They are instant cast, yes but aren't nearly as effective as TM from what I've seen.
>>* Can buff primary skills that should already be outclassing at-circle opponents due to skillset placement. <<
Things are "at-circle" because the circle the critter is at are based off our reqs.
>>* Mages with 9 buffs up generally have several exclusively for magic defense. Barbarian attacks are not magic and so you can pretty much ignore these.<<
The paladin I was looking at had Courage, Righteous Wrath, Sentinel's Resolve, Anti-Stun, Heroic Strength, Marshal Order, Rutilor's Edge, Divine Armor, and Clarity up.
>>* Cannot currently "fail" to activate an ability. If we increased IF regen this would have to be strongly considered. Not sure folks want a skillcheck everytime...<<
I'd say not having the IF to get an ability running is a failure to activate an ability.
>>Food for thought... has anyone tried to fill their IF bar (using only meditations so the drain doesn't kill you), and then measure how many/how long you can keep up a combination of forms and berserks?<<
No, because using only meditations means I'm dead hunting at level so I can never actually get to 100% IF. I could go under hunt, learn nothing for quite a while to get to 100% IF, but that shouldn't need to be done. MUs don't have to, not even other terts so it's no excuse.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>>Even if they do manage to get a buff or two up, they'll be playing catch-up on their mana reserves. The Barbarian Guild's abilities are not going to match the effectiveness of mages in every way. It is your tertiary skillset afterall.<<
I just did 6 buffs with my 136th cleric in 24 seconds. Each of these was prepped to 20 mana and cast after 3 seconds of prep time. At the end I was at 74% mana. Within 45 seconds I was back to full mana. I've put the debug info into the log so everyone can see the very basic script I made with these random buffs.
[Script loaded: buffcleric.cmd]
buffcleric.cmd(3): [put prep pfe 20]
[buffcleric]: prep pfe 20
buffcleric.cmd(4): [pause 4]
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Protection from Evil spell.
>
buffcleric.cmd(5): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(6): [put prep mpp 20]
[buffcleric]: prep mpp 20
buffcleric.cmd(7): [pause 4]
You gesture.
You are bathed in a soft white glow for a moment.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Minor Physical Protection spell.
>
buffcleric.cmd(8): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(9): [put prep mapp 20]
[buffcleric]: prep mapp 20
buffcleric.cmd(10): [pause 4]
You gesture.
You are bathed in a soft silver glow for a moment.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Major Physical Protection spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
buffcleric.cmd(11): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(12): [put prep sos 20]
[buffcleric]: prep sos 20
buffcleric.cmd(13): [pause 4]
You gesture.
A bright silver nimbus roars up around you as streaks of steel-blue light descend in a convex field.
A sense of calm focus takes hold as the luminous pattern washes over you. You feel slightly more able to avoid attacks with your energized joints.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Soul Shield spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
buffcleric.cmd(14): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(15): [put prep bene 20]
[buffcleric]: prep bene 20
buffcleric.cmd(16): [pause 4]
You gesture.
A lucent sphere glistens around you, enfolding your spirit.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Benediction spell.
>
buffcleric.cmd(17): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
buffcleric.cmd(18): [put prep auspice 20]
[buffcleric]: prep auspice 20
buffcleric.cmd(19): [pause 4]
You make a holy gesture and intone reverently, "Kuniyo, hear my plea!"
You feel the divinity seep from your bones as the previous blessing of Kuniyo wanes.
You suddenly feel more limber, your reflexes charged with a faint energy.
Suddenly your muscles flood with energy, singing with a faint vigor.
A surge of faint energy tingles through every nerve in your body, leaving you feeling more dexterous.
>
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Auspice spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
>
buffcleric.cmd(20): [put cast]
[buffcleric]: cast
[Script finished (In 24 seconds): buffcleric.cmd]
You gesture.
A shaft of brilliant white light descends from the heavens, bathing you in its radiance.
Your spirit sings with a sudden added vigor.
>
You feel fully rested.
> conc
You reach out with your senses and see brilliant streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is shining mana to the west, luminous mana to the east, and lambent mana to the northeast.
You sense the Auspice spell bolstering your spirit, which should last for about sixteen minutes.
You sense a weak Soul Shield enfolding your spirit, which should last for sixteen roisaen.
You sense the Major Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about sixteen roisaen.
You sense the Minor Physical Protection spell upon you, which will last for about eighteen roisaen.
You sense the Protection from Evil spell upon you, which will last for about sixteen roisaen.
You sense the Benediction spell upon you, which will last for about fourteen roisaen.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Granted they may not all be the most useful buffs for PvE(I just picked 6 random cleric buffs to prove my point), but to say it's rather impossible isn't accurate. I could have done it with shorter prep times if I so chose to. I just did it pretty easily and had plenty of mana to spare. You can say that I don't have max duration on those and that's correct, but why would I care if I can just throw them back up?
>>* Only require a few seconds to throw up Swan and/or Turtle, and receive substantial protection from magical attacks.<<
Not talking about PvP here, this is PvE and neither of these really do anything for PvE.
>>* Only require one second to call upon an Antistun/Immob ability, effectively neutralizing many of your opponents quick-attacks (Still need to add unconscious support to it) <<
Only if I have the IF to do so.
>>* With preparation, can add Serenity and receive total magical immunity for a short time.<<
Still not discussing PvP. And no MU needs to really prepare to get their normal buffs up and running. They can do it in under 30 seconds if they know what they are doing.
>>* Can instantly lob roars at an opponent. <<
They are instant cast, yes but aren't nearly as effective as TM from what I've seen.
>>* Can buff primary skills that should already be outclassing at-circle opponents due to skillset placement. <<
Things are "at-circle" because the circle the critter is at are based off our reqs.
>>* Mages with 9 buffs up generally have several exclusively for magic defense. Barbarian attacks are not magic and so you can pretty much ignore these.<<
The paladin I was looking at had Courage, Righteous Wrath, Sentinel's Resolve, Anti-Stun, Heroic Strength, Marshal Order, Rutilor's Edge, Divine Armor, and Clarity up.
>>* Cannot currently "fail" to activate an ability. If we increased IF regen this would have to be strongly considered. Not sure folks want a skillcheck everytime...<<
I'd say not having the IF to get an ability running is a failure to activate an ability.
>>Food for thought... has anyone tried to fill their IF bar (using only meditations so the drain doesn't kill you), and then measure how many/how long you can keep up a combination of forms and berserks?<<
No, because using only meditations means I'm dead hunting at level so I can never actually get to 100% IF. I could go under hunt, learn nothing for quite a while to get to 100% IF, but that shouldn't need to be done. MUs don't have to, not even other terts so it's no excuse.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 12:31 PM CST
Capped buffs?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 12:37 PM CST
To be 100% honest, I'm not sure what his personal cap is. I don't really train with him much.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
ILLIENA
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 12:40 PM CST
> You can say that I don't have max duration on those and that's correct, but why would I care if I can just throw them back up?
You also don't have max effect. Bonus size grows with mana, and to achieve the max, you'll need to be casting at ~80 mana stanced for potency. That's significantly more difficult.
You also don't have max effect. Bonus size grows with mana, and to achieve the max, you'll need to be casting at ~80 mana stanced for potency. That's significantly more difficult.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 12:41 PM CST
Well if the buffs are only 20% of max, the bonus is only 20% of max. Not sure you can compare a capped Barb ability to a handful of 20%-powered random abilities.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
PENDUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 01:05 PM CST
>>You also don't have max effect. Bonus size grows with mana, and to achieve the max, you'll need to be casting at ~80 mana stanced for potency. That's significantly more difficult.<<
Thanks for the info, I don't really play a mage. But having a capped bonus doesn't mean much if you're already at or near the cap for OF and DF for the critter you're hunting.
>>Well if the buffs are only 20% of max, the bonus is only 20% of max. Not sure you can compare a capped Barb ability to a handful of 20%-powered random abilities. <<
I can if the buffs I'm using don't do much since I'm already at the OF cap for what I'm hunting. If I'm at the bonus OF cap without using Dragon, what use do I have for Dragon? If I only need 20% to get to the effective caps for what I'm hunting, the extra 80% of the buff doesn't actually do anything for me if I'm understanding how combat works now correctly.
Just to continue, I stanced for potency and bumped my preps to 40. Took me 42 seconds to get those 6 up and I was at 50% mana. I was back to 100% mana in a minute or two. If I was actively training my cleric all I'd do is not train TM first, I'd pick my mundane weapons so my mana regenerated to full. Either way, I'd not have any real issue keeping as many buffs as possible up if I desired to. I simply can not do that as a barbarian since I have no real way to get to 100% IF. My berserks, roars and forms all drain IF consistently. Imagine having the vast majority of your spells be cyclic spells and to regain your mana you had to actively kill, but it would only trigger once per minute and you started at 33% of your best.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Thanks for the info, I don't really play a mage. But having a capped bonus doesn't mean much if you're already at or near the cap for OF and DF for the critter you're hunting.
>>Well if the buffs are only 20% of max, the bonus is only 20% of max. Not sure you can compare a capped Barb ability to a handful of 20%-powered random abilities. <<
I can if the buffs I'm using don't do much since I'm already at the OF cap for what I'm hunting. If I'm at the bonus OF cap without using Dragon, what use do I have for Dragon? If I only need 20% to get to the effective caps for what I'm hunting, the extra 80% of the buff doesn't actually do anything for me if I'm understanding how combat works now correctly.
Just to continue, I stanced for potency and bumped my preps to 40. Took me 42 seconds to get those 6 up and I was at 50% mana. I was back to 100% mana in a minute or two. If I was actively training my cleric all I'd do is not train TM first, I'd pick my mundane weapons so my mana regenerated to full. Either way, I'd not have any real issue keeping as many buffs as possible up if I desired to. I simply can not do that as a barbarian since I have no real way to get to 100% IF. My berserks, roars and forms all drain IF consistently. Imagine having the vast majority of your spells be cyclic spells and to regain your mana you had to actively kill, but it would only trigger once per minute and you started at 33% of your best.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 01:12 PM CST
>>I can if the buffs I'm using don't do much since I'm already at the OF cap for what I'm hunting. If I'm at the bonus OF cap without using Dragon, what use do I have for Dragon?
So...don't use Dragon and replace it with something better? I'm not understanding what your argument is here.
>> 42 seconds.
I did a quick look, most of those spells need 100 mana to reach max potency. So you are casting them at about 50-55% of max power (because you stanced for potency).
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
So...don't use Dragon and replace it with something better? I'm not understanding what your argument is here.
>> 42 seconds.
I did a quick look, most of those spells need 100 mana to reach max potency. So you are casting them at about 50-55% of max power (because you stanced for potency).
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Filling the Pool
01/26/2013 02:32 PM CST
>>To get that all up and running took 2 minutes and that was only because I had to figure out what spells he had were buffs. At the end of those casts he was at 80% mana.
Yeah, but what do each of those things do and how well?
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Yeah, but what do each of those things do and how well?
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
01/27/2013 02:21 AM CST
With the exact same stats and skills, a barbarian using Eagle, Swan, Piranha, Tenacity and Wildfire (very easy for me to keep up infinitely right now, out of combat) would probably beat the Cleric you just showed quite handily, with similar "prep" time, whether in PvP or PvE "kills per minute."
JYAKULIS1
Re: Filling the Pool
01/27/2013 07:06 AM CST
DIMINISHEDANGEL, how much IF do you have? I have almost 400 IF and I can keep 5 buffs up for more than a few minutes at a time killing as fast as I can in combat (Maulers). What I have been using is Dragon, Piranha, Monkey, Avalanch, and depending on my weapon Tornado or Wildfire. I'm not sure if it matters or not, but I usually put tenacity up before going in to combat or sometimes if possible another meditation. Please let me know what I'm doing wrong if you can keep 5 buffs up out of combat and I cant even keep 5 up consistently in combat.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
01/27/2013 07:18 AM CST
>>DIMINISHEDANGEL, how much IF do you have? I have almost 400 IF and I can keep 5 buffs up for more than a few minutes at a time killing as fast as I can in combat (Maulers). What I have been using is Dragon, Piranha, Monkey, Avalanch, and depending on my weapon Tornado or Wildfire. I'm not sure if it matters or not, but I usually put tenacity up before going in to combat or sometimes if possible another meditation. Please let me know what I'm doing wrong if you can keep 5 buffs up out of combat and I cant even keep 5 up consistently in combat.
I have a little less IF then you. Just like spell patterns, the difficulty level of the abilities you are trying to use heavily influences how long they last.
I use something similar: Swan, Piranha, Monkey, either Dragon or Eagle, and then I usually have a berserk running out of Famine, Avalanche, Wildfire and Tornado. The big reason you're probably having trouble maintaining this infinitely is Tenacity, since it is an advanced form and very costly to us, or it may be that you are berserking just a tad too much.
If you want to use a meditation, you might consider switching Tenacity for Contemplation. Tenacity's pretty nice; I used to use it for warding experience, but now that forms work fine alone, I've shelved it from my ever-day hunting buffs (for now) until I have more IF. If you're still having trouble, try dropping Monkey.
I have a little less IF then you. Just like spell patterns, the difficulty level of the abilities you are trying to use heavily influences how long they last.
I use something similar: Swan, Piranha, Monkey, either Dragon or Eagle, and then I usually have a berserk running out of Famine, Avalanche, Wildfire and Tornado. The big reason you're probably having trouble maintaining this infinitely is Tenacity, since it is an advanced form and very costly to us, or it may be that you are berserking just a tad too much.
If you want to use a meditation, you might consider switching Tenacity for Contemplation. Tenacity's pretty nice; I used to use it for warding experience, but now that forms work fine alone, I've shelved it from my ever-day hunting buffs (for now) until I have more IF. If you're still having trouble, try dropping Monkey.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 12:46 AM CST
Hey there a few questions on your comments.
>>Can buff primary skills that should already be outclassing at-circle opponents due to skillset placement.
Isn't that true for every guild? I never played another guild so I just assumed that pretty much all guilds can buff their primary skillset? (except traders)
>>Cannot currently "fail" to activate an ability. If we increased IF regen this would have to be strongly considered. Not sure folks want a skillcheck everytime...
Do you mean that mages have a % chance just to fail randomly even if they have enough mana? What is the fail rate? if it's like .1% I would take that for faster regen. But otherwise I fail starting my abilities all the time, is that not supposed to happen? Also when I fail at my abilities it still sucks away IF for nothing.
On your abilities test, that's an impressive stack, but 4-8 minutes is like no time at all. Unless you're working a single weapon to not even locked, that is not a realistic time frame. It seems odd to me that a barb with 66th circles lasts 4 minutes and a barb at 105th lasts only 8 minutes and starts dropping. Both times are basically unusable except for brief moments. This game sucks so much time (because its fun), I can start a PvP match and before I know it 15 minutes past, 4-8 minutes definately does not cut it for anything in this game. Specially 3.0 when it can take up to a minute to kill 1 critter.
Also you based your tests on a full IF pool, I don't think anyone fills their pool before starting buffs? So in PVP starting at 1/3 a stack like that you probably would never get up and if you do it would last 1/3 of that time, 1 minute basically. I don't know I guess I will have to try filling my pool first.
I think most people tend to train with what they can keep up indefinately, or at minimum 20-30ish minutes. Otherwise you can't train with those buffs. at 156th I can't even keep half of that stack up indefinately. Can a mage?
DIMINISHEDANGEL mentioned this earlier:
>>You're only getting a bonus inner fire rate if you kill once per minute
Is this true? If it is can this be changed? I mean to me this basically says that you get no benefit for killing faster which is the whole point.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>Can buff primary skills that should already be outclassing at-circle opponents due to skillset placement.
Isn't that true for every guild? I never played another guild so I just assumed that pretty much all guilds can buff their primary skillset? (except traders)
>>Cannot currently "fail" to activate an ability. If we increased IF regen this would have to be strongly considered. Not sure folks want a skillcheck everytime...
Do you mean that mages have a % chance just to fail randomly even if they have enough mana? What is the fail rate? if it's like .1% I would take that for faster regen. But otherwise I fail starting my abilities all the time, is that not supposed to happen? Also when I fail at my abilities it still sucks away IF for nothing.
On your abilities test, that's an impressive stack, but 4-8 minutes is like no time at all. Unless you're working a single weapon to not even locked, that is not a realistic time frame. It seems odd to me that a barb with 66th circles lasts 4 minutes and a barb at 105th lasts only 8 minutes and starts dropping. Both times are basically unusable except for brief moments. This game sucks so much time (because its fun), I can start a PvP match and before I know it 15 minutes past, 4-8 minutes definately does not cut it for anything in this game. Specially 3.0 when it can take up to a minute to kill 1 critter.
Also you based your tests on a full IF pool, I don't think anyone fills their pool before starting buffs? So in PVP starting at 1/3 a stack like that you probably would never get up and if you do it would last 1/3 of that time, 1 minute basically. I don't know I guess I will have to try filling my pool first.
I think most people tend to train with what they can keep up indefinately, or at minimum 20-30ish minutes. Otherwise you can't train with those buffs. at 156th I can't even keep half of that stack up indefinately. Can a mage?
DIMINISHEDANGEL mentioned this earlier:
>>You're only getting a bonus inner fire rate if you kill once per minute
Is this true? If it is can this be changed? I mean to me this basically says that you get no benefit for killing faster which is the whole point.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 01:20 AM CST
>>Do you mean that mages have a % chance just to fail randomly even if they have enough mana? What is the fail rate? if it's like .1% I would take that for faster regen. But otherwise I fail starting my abilities all the time, is that not supposed to happen? Also when I fail at my abilities it still sucks away IF for nothing.
Successfully casting involves a skillcheck depending on how much mana you're putting into the spell and what tier it is (basic, advanced, etc), as well as other factors if applicable like nerve damage. If you fail the skillcheck, the spell backfires and doesn't cast, though the mana you tried to use is still burned.
Since IF is a much harder resource to regenerate than mana, and since we have no way of actively controlling how much "mana" we are putting into our abilities, the chance of backfire is probably a very bad idea, and would be a much larger headache for using our abilities than slightly-increased regen would be worth.
I suppose the only real solution is more magic ranks. I look forward to a month from now, when Squanto will have 1750 inner fire ranks, and we can see what a barb is truly capable of.
Successfully casting involves a skillcheck depending on how much mana you're putting into the spell and what tier it is (basic, advanced, etc), as well as other factors if applicable like nerve damage. If you fail the skillcheck, the spell backfires and doesn't cast, though the mana you tried to use is still burned.
Since IF is a much harder resource to regenerate than mana, and since we have no way of actively controlling how much "mana" we are putting into our abilities, the chance of backfire is probably a very bad idea, and would be a much larger headache for using our abilities than slightly-increased regen would be worth.
I suppose the only real solution is more magic ranks. I look forward to a month from now, when Squanto will have 1750 inner fire ranks, and we can see what a barb is truly capable of.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 01:28 AM CST
>>With the exact same stats and skills, a barbarian using Eagle, Swan, Piranha, Tenacity and Wildfire (very easy for me to keep up infinitely right now, out of combat) would probably beat the Cleric you just showed quite handily, with similar "prep" time, whether in PvP or PvE "kills per minute."
Either you are lieing, don't pay attention, never even tested, or you have a faster regen than me at 664 IF.
Start:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
3 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
5 minutes
>>>>>>>>>
7 minutes
>>>>>>
9 minutes
>>>
10 minutes
You are currently practicing the Eagle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are somewhat crazed with the Wildfire Berserk.
The Tenacity meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
The wild fire powering your limbs flickers, and then goes out entirely.
>bers wild
You struggle, but find yourself lacking the inner fire to enact such a rage!
11 minutes
You are currently practicing the Eagle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
The Tenacity meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
So you can keep those up idefinately I guess I must be broke then.
so at 156th circle reqs your looking at intro, basic, basic, basic, advanced for 10 minutes.
Also 5 minutes later:
>med focus
Your inner fire lacks the strength to empower such a potent mental activity.
Can the IF cost for focus be lowered it's literally over half my passive IF which seems overkill.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Either you are lieing, don't pay attention, never even tested, or you have a faster regen than me at 664 IF.
Start:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
3 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
5 minutes
>>>>>>>>>
7 minutes
>>>>>>
9 minutes
>>>
10 minutes
You are currently practicing the Eagle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Swan Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are somewhat crazed with the Wildfire Berserk.
The Tenacity meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
>
The wild fire powering your limbs flickers, and then goes out entirely.
>bers wild
You struggle, but find yourself lacking the inner fire to enact such a rage!
11 minutes
You are currently practicing the Eagle Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Piranha Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
The Tenacity meditation is still burned into your mind.
>>>>>
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.
So you can keep those up idefinately I guess I must be broke then.
so at 156th circle reqs your looking at intro, basic, basic, basic, advanced for 10 minutes.
Also 5 minutes later:
>med focus
Your inner fire lacks the strength to empower such a potent mental activity.
Can the IF cost for focus be lowered it's literally over half my passive IF which seems overkill.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 01:32 AM CST
>>when Squanto will have 1750 inner fire ranks, and we can see what a barb is truly capable of.
lol right that guy is insane yet completey 100% legit.
Anyways, I tested meditation focus with 13 of my 20 ticks to the passive regen mark and couldn't start it, so that means it takes OVER 65% of my IF just to start. Please reduce!
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
lol right that guy is insane yet completey 100% legit.
Anyways, I tested meditation focus with 13 of my 20 ticks to the passive regen mark and couldn't start it, so that means it takes OVER 65% of my IF just to start. Please reduce!
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
VEE-REX
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 02:23 AM CST
>>>>With the exact same stats and skills, a barbarian using Eagle, Swan, Piranha, Tenacity and Wildfire (very easy for me to keep up infinitely right now, out of combat) would probably beat the Cleric you just showed quite handily, with similar "prep" time, whether in PvP or PvE "kills per minute."
I tried this just now and it didn't work for me either. Started tenacity first, used Piranha/Swan/Eagle, then Wildfire and they didn't last 10 minutes. They dropped in about 8 and my IF was tapped, and this is with 600 IF.
I've done a decent amount of PvP with our abilities, so I feel I'm well aware of how to use 'em. Usually (and this is depending on the abilities), I can go with 3 total abilities infinitely when out of combat. I can put up 4 but after they end I have to wait for IF to regain before using them again. If I put up 5 they'll end prematurely and my IF will of course be tapped. Compared to another magic tert with 5-600'ish in their magics, we really don't perform as well (which is the whole point Pendus was making). Even constantly in combat I'm unable to kill fast enough unless I use rare metal weapons to rebuild IF to put up a comparable number of buff as another magic tert around my skill level.
Also, remember my earlier testing. I used Meditation Fill to refill Inner Fire and timed how long it lasted before it hit the 33% regen cap without any abilities up. 20 minutes. That makes any test with full IF not mean much IMO. Now I realize it goes down slower while in combat but in practice it's not all that practical, especially for PvP hit-n-run anyway.
Not complaining, just pointing out some facts. :)
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I tried this just now and it didn't work for me either. Started tenacity first, used Piranha/Swan/Eagle, then Wildfire and they didn't last 10 minutes. They dropped in about 8 and my IF was tapped, and this is with 600 IF.
I've done a decent amount of PvP with our abilities, so I feel I'm well aware of how to use 'em. Usually (and this is depending on the abilities), I can go with 3 total abilities infinitely when out of combat. I can put up 4 but after they end I have to wait for IF to regain before using them again. If I put up 5 they'll end prematurely and my IF will of course be tapped. Compared to another magic tert with 5-600'ish in their magics, we really don't perform as well (which is the whole point Pendus was making). Even constantly in combat I'm unable to kill fast enough unless I use rare metal weapons to rebuild IF to put up a comparable number of buff as another magic tert around my skill level.
Also, remember my earlier testing. I used Meditation Fill to refill Inner Fire and timed how long it lasted before it hit the 33% regen cap without any abilities up. 20 minutes. That makes any test with full IF not mean much IMO. Now I realize it goes down slower while in combat but in practice it's not all that practical, especially for PvP hit-n-run anyway.
Not complaining, just pointing out some facts. :)
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 02:40 AM CST
Let me also add this for invasions... I'm unable to get my IF up too high for a couple of reasons.
1. If the invasion critter is around my level, I won't be killing it fast enough to add in like 2 more abilities.
2. If the invasion critter is way below me, I don't want to keep killing since I want to allow them to be killed by those on a similar level. I've gotten a couple of SENDs before for killing invasion critters below my level.
To be honest, at this point they could cut out the other 67% of IF and I wouldn't notice a difference for PvP/Invasions. More magick skills won't help us use that other 67% more effectively either if you think about it, unless I just want to stack lots of abilities while hunting for some reason.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
1. If the invasion critter is around my level, I won't be killing it fast enough to add in like 2 more abilities.
2. If the invasion critter is way below me, I don't want to keep killing since I want to allow them to be killed by those on a similar level. I've gotten a couple of SENDs before for killing invasion critters below my level.
To be honest, at this point they could cut out the other 67% of IF and I wouldn't notice a difference for PvP/Invasions. More magick skills won't help us use that other 67% more effectively either if you think about it, unless I just want to stack lots of abilities while hunting for some reason.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 09:00 AM CST
>Isn't that true for every guild? I never played another guild so I just assumed that pretty much all guilds can buff their primary skillset? (except traders)
Most 'buffs' are combat oriented, with less than 5 non-combat buffs game wide I think (classify stealth as a combat skill, leaves lore buffs basically). Most magic guilds buff their secondary or tert skills, then.
So, reallistically, barbs are the only guild getting primary learning rates then nothing but boosts to those primary skills on top of it, but that's what barbs do.
Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.
Most 'buffs' are combat oriented, with less than 5 non-combat buffs game wide I think (classify stealth as a combat skill, leaves lore buffs basically). Most magic guilds buff their secondary or tert skills, then.
So, reallistically, barbs are the only guild getting primary learning rates then nothing but boosts to those primary skills on top of it, but that's what barbs do.
Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.
IPECAC
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 11:51 AM CST
I've still not seen my Inner Fire bar reach full, and I've been hunting fairly nonstop since 3.0's release. In fact, haven't even come close.
>>To be honest, at this point they could cut out the other 67% of IF and I wouldn't notice a difference for PvP/Invasions.
This. I've just figured out what my 33% allows and basically stick to that since I can't seem raise it past that.
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
>>To be honest, at this point they could cut out the other 67% of IF and I wouldn't notice a difference for PvP/Invasions.
This. I've just figured out what my 33% allows and basically stick to that since I can't seem raise it past that.
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 03:03 PM CST
>>Most 'buffs' are combat oriented, with less than 5 non-combat buffs game wide I think (classify stealth as a combat skill, leaves lore buffs basically). Most magic guilds buff their secondary or tert skills, then.
You're forgetting stuff like magic skill boosters (only TM and debilitation could clearly be considered combat buffs), survival skills such as outdoorsmanship and locksmithing and athletics, and even encumbrance boosters, which puts the number of non-combat buffs in the game well above five. Barbarians alone have four.
You're forgetting stuff like magic skill boosters (only TM and debilitation could clearly be considered combat buffs), survival skills such as outdoorsmanship and locksmithing and athletics, and even encumbrance boosters, which puts the number of non-combat buffs in the game well above five. Barbarians alone have four.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Filling the Pool
02/02/2013 03:49 PM CST
>survival skills such as outdoorsmanship and locksmithing and athletics
Sorry, I was directly pointing this at 'combat only' skills, which is why I mentioned stealth. Perception is possibly, but not really, since I consider 'combat' skills to only pertain to PvE content, and the number of stealth critters in DR is low enough that I can toss that out to make a point with hyperbole.
Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.
Sorry, I was directly pointing this at 'combat only' skills, which is why I mentioned stealth. Perception is possibly, but not really, since I consider 'combat' skills to only pertain to PvE content, and the number of stealth critters in DR is low enough that I can toss that out to make a point with hyperbole.
Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.
RANDDOMNESS
Re: Filling the Pool
02/03/2013 11:09 AM CST
Yeah, I don't really understand the idea of having a 1/3 full pool either. Like you guys, all my guy does is kill stuff all day long - and I've never filled it up either. This is with 600+ Inner fire.
Not a whine post, cuz well, I can keep my magics moving and stuff, but I don't see the point of having a perpetual 66% empty 'mana' pool. Maybe I'm missing the big picture or something.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
Not a whine post, cuz well, I can keep my magics moving and stuff, but I don't see the point of having a perpetual 66% empty 'mana' pool. Maybe I'm missing the big picture or something.
Don't make accounts while under the influence - it may lead to ridiculous spelling errors.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Filling the Pool
02/03/2013 01:22 PM CST
The intent was for the rest of the pool to slowly fill up as you hunt, provided you aren't using the maximum number of abilities that you can manage. It is a delicate process however, one tied to what abilities people are using and how fast they are killing. Considering the entire Guild isn't out yet - which includes several abilities to more easily regenerate IF - I hope folks can reserve judgement for just a bit longer.
I've closed out over 100 combat bugs since 3.0 went live, but have about 190 left... then there are 300 crafting bugs on my plate :whimper: Just need to get through it all so I can refocus on the Guild. Thanks for being patient!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I've closed out over 100 combat bugs since 3.0 went live, but have about 190 left... then there are 300 crafting bugs on my plate :whimper: Just need to get through it all so I can refocus on the Guild. Thanks for being patient!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
