When new inner fire is released, can we pretty please have a way for our stats/awesomeness to determine the amount of inner fire we have after departing? Any chance for this?
It really sucks when I die and after departing I can't use any buffs for awhile. Even if I go and kill critters, it still takes some time. This is glaringly noticable when after everyone dies and departs in an invasion, they're wondering why I'm not ready to jump out into battle right away like they are. It is quite annoying to be stripped of all of our abilities except roars for that long.
I wouldn't mind seeing this in a meditation, but I really really prefer it to be a part of the new IF calculation. If someone deems it to be OP (not sure why), place a cap on it. So some of the strongest Barbs can depart and only end up with inner the size of their own height, or a little higher.
Or, maybe higher stats would mean faster IF recovery.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
VEE-REX
DR-AURDUN
Re: New Inner fire
09/02/2009 03:15 AM CDT
Will consider. :)
~GM Aurdun
Barbarians' Guild Advocate
Gor'Tog Co-Champion
History Guru
[Aurdun] Why won't they just accept things I tell them point blank?
[Zeyurn] Obviously that would be cheating.
~GM Aurdun
Barbarians' Guild Advocate
Gor'Tog Co-Champion
History Guru
[Aurdun] Why won't they just accept things I tell them point blank?
[Zeyurn] Obviously that would be cheating.
COVERG
Re: New Inner fire
09/02/2009 08:55 AM CDT
The GMs’ have been commenting “Did you know that you have the same size Inner Fire Pool at first circle as you do at 150th!” And sound like this is a bad thing and we should be appalled. We are told that the inner fire pool is static, but our ability to use it becomes more and more efficient as we get more and more experienced (move from circle 1 to 150 and beyond!) in using it. The fact that the GM mentioned circles makes me think it should be circle related. It is just a matter of perspective. Rather than increasing pool size we could do something like use 50 inner fire points to start a dance and 10 more pre minute, as we move up in circle it would take 49 and 10, 48 and 9, 47 and 8 and so on until we got max dance/berserk times and strength. Then the number of Inner Fire Points would keep falling until it hit some global minimal amount, and stayed there.
I could come up with a number of formulas to do this. Originally the barbarian GM’s probably used concentration as a way to get circle in our calculations (knowing it would never be removed). It was overlooked in the concentration change and never put back in... Remember the big rush to fix our abilities rather than pull the concentration change and do the normal development and Quality Assurance work to insure our abilities work correctly? I am not surprised that it looks bad now.
But a fixed Inner Fire Pool now, let’s assume our Inner Fire Pool started as some fixed number adjusted upward bases on how short a race you belong to and multiplied by your starting strength. Gnomes would have the biggest IFP and Tog’s the smallest. Not saying this is so, just trying to throw in a variable or 2 so that everyone did not end up with the same pool size.
Say starting a dance costs 50/ (1 + (current circle – the circle you learn the dance) or 1 which ever is higher. You can dance for 3 minutes + 1 minute for every 10 points left in the IFP / (1 + (current circle - the circle you learned the dance) or capped dance time, which ever is lower. The IFP points are used over time and are left for BMR.
Berserks would use the same type of calculation and you could do multiple berserks based on how much is left in your IFP.
BMR could = Normal MR times a barbarian factor with a barbarian cost for resisting a spell. The factor could be 1 + (3 times circle/current IFP size). The IFP could be reduced by 1 IFP point per spell level times (manna used in spell/ barbarian circle).
See, Inner Fire Pool can remain fixed with no problem. You just have to reduce the cost of everything as you learn how to use your Inner Fire to do things more efficiently (go up in circle).
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
I could come up with a number of formulas to do this. Originally the barbarian GM’s probably used concentration as a way to get circle in our calculations (knowing it would never be removed). It was overlooked in the concentration change and never put back in... Remember the big rush to fix our abilities rather than pull the concentration change and do the normal development and Quality Assurance work to insure our abilities work correctly? I am not surprised that it looks bad now.
But a fixed Inner Fire Pool now, let’s assume our Inner Fire Pool started as some fixed number adjusted upward bases on how short a race you belong to and multiplied by your starting strength. Gnomes would have the biggest IFP and Tog’s the smallest. Not saying this is so, just trying to throw in a variable or 2 so that everyone did not end up with the same pool size.
Say starting a dance costs 50/ (1 + (current circle – the circle you learn the dance) or 1 which ever is higher. You can dance for 3 minutes + 1 minute for every 10 points left in the IFP / (1 + (current circle - the circle you learned the dance) or capped dance time, which ever is lower. The IFP points are used over time and are left for BMR.
Berserks would use the same type of calculation and you could do multiple berserks based on how much is left in your IFP.
BMR could = Normal MR times a barbarian factor with a barbarian cost for resisting a spell. The factor could be 1 + (3 times circle/current IFP size). The IFP could be reduced by 1 IFP point per spell level times (manna used in spell/ barbarian circle).
See, Inner Fire Pool can remain fixed with no problem. You just have to reduce the cost of everything as you learn how to use your Inner Fire to do things more efficiently (go up in circle).
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
WISECRACKDRAGON
COVERG
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 12:37 PM CDT
I think he should do his thing. Just having a fixed pool and decreasing usage cost with circle makes it more unmagic like. And that is a good thing in my opinion.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 12:53 PM CDT
It's already different in that mana comes from the enviroment whereas IF comes from the Barbarian. This means that mechanically mana varies based on environmental factors while IF remains static (under the new model it will vary based on stats, but still remain constant regardless of location).
I'm not saying your ideas are necessarily bad, I just believe that a pool capable of growing with the Barbarian would be simpler and easier to work with, especially for the GMs.
I'm not saying your ideas are necessarily bad, I just believe that a pool capable of growing with the Barbarian would be simpler and easier to work with, especially for the GMs.
SUGARSNOUT
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 01:04 PM CDT
Perhaps I'm mildly unimaginative, but I don't see the sense in every single Barbarian having the exact same maximum amount of inner fire. I mean lore-wise, it's entirely unrealistic.
Size should vary according to stats. Circle should not play a role, I pretty much disagree with Magdar on circle playing a role in anything aside from serving as milestones at which a Barbarian can gain new abilities. New experience has already created a situation in which each guild will basically become cookie-cutter, I don't think we need to design abilities that do the same by causing Barbarians to circle chase.
Size should vary according to stats. Circle should not play a role, I pretty much disagree with Magdar on circle playing a role in anything aside from serving as milestones at which a Barbarian can gain new abilities. New experience has already created a situation in which each guild will basically become cookie-cutter, I don't think we need to design abilities that do the same by causing Barbarians to circle chase.
JMF90
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 02:22 PM CDT
>I think he should do his thing. Just having a fixed pool and decreasing usage cost with circle makes it more unmagic like. And that is a good thing in my opinion.
I really don't follow this line of logic. Are khri more magiclike because the concentration pool grows with the character?
Having a growing pool size makes it easier to balance things out (more of a range to play with). If it's all getting rewritten anyway, this hardly seems important to save.
I really don't follow this line of logic. Are khri more magiclike because the concentration pool grows with the character?
Having a growing pool size makes it easier to balance things out (more of a range to play with). If it's all getting rewritten anyway, this hardly seems important to save.
DWARB-POWER
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 05:26 PM CDT
Whether it is circle and/or stats like concentration that plays a large part in inner fire or related things to Barbarians. What thoughts are there towards having inner fire recovery via time (passive inner fire recovery) regained more quickly via circle and/or stats in this proposed inner fire system? Meaning, will it progress as it is currently for passive inner fire recovery or will it scale to the pace of how much that Barbarian has in an expanded inner fire pool?
- Simon
- Simon
DR-AURDUN
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 06:15 PM CDT
We won't be doing "circle" based calcs for it. It'll be a stat-based thing.
~GM Aurdun
Barbarians' Guild Advocate
Gor'Tog Co-Champion
History Guru
[Aurdun] Why won't they just accept things I tell them point blank?
[Zeyurn] Obviously that would be cheating.
~GM Aurdun
Barbarians' Guild Advocate
Gor'Tog Co-Champion
History Guru
[Aurdun] Why won't they just accept things I tell them point blank?
[Zeyurn] Obviously that would be cheating.
DWARB-POWER
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 06:20 PM CDT
Any idea as to what stat based utilization it will have or too early to tell at this point?
- Simon
- Simon
DR-AURDUN
Re: New Inner fire
09/03/2009 10:01 PM CDT
I'm fairly certain I know what it is, but I'm not willing to say at this point.
~GM Aurdun
Barbarians' Guild Advocate
Gor'Tog Co-Champion
History Guru
[Aurdun] Why won't they just accept things I tell them point blank?
[Zeyurn] Obviously that would be cheating.
~GM Aurdun
Barbarians' Guild Advocate
Gor'Tog Co-Champion
History Guru
[Aurdun] Why won't they just accept things I tell them point blank?
[Zeyurn] Obviously that would be cheating.
COVERG
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 04:51 AM CDT
<<We won't be doing "circle" based calcs for it. It'll be a stat-based thing.>>
If that is true, then you must be going to use concentration (or some other stats based calculation) rather than circle to determin when we can get an ability. Right? That just goes counter to how EVERYTHING is now handed out. Why allow us to learn dances, berserks and roars based on cricle, then use concentration for everything else? Seems counter intuititive. Will all the other guilds change how they get abilities to stats based also?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
If that is true, then you must be going to use concentration (or some other stats based calculation) rather than circle to determin when we can get an ability. Right? That just goes counter to how EVERYTHING is now handed out. Why allow us to learn dances, berserks and roars based on cricle, then use concentration for everything else? Seems counter intuititive. Will all the other guilds change how they get abilities to stats based also?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
DR-OOLAN
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 04:54 AM CDT
>>I thought since we get dances and berserks based on cricle not concentration, that circle should matter.
And it will in so far as gaining circles gains you tdp's which you can then spend on the stats that will get you better IF once the model changes. Your suggestion of reduction of cost based on circle is little different than if we simply flat out scaled IF itself on circle. In the end it turns into a system where how you choose to train yourself will not be reflected in your ability to use the guild's abilities. In a flat model such as you propose, a Barbarian at 50th circle will have the same IF and the same dance effect/time, etc regardless if they focus on mentals for learning, strength/stamina or perhaps reflex/agility.
With a model where IF scales based on stats then this introduces some variability and control to the player. It also means that you don't get stuck saying, "I can only dance Dragon once and then I have to wait 30 minutes to get enough IF to redance even while hunting." and getting a response of "You'll need to gain 8 more circles to change that." There is merit to the arguments you are making, but Aurdun has already spoken in regards to the direction he prefers to go on this topic. Circle is not going to be the primary factor of much of anything moving forward. He's even put forth the thought of just giving Barbs straight generic slots and letting them pick abilities as they see fit rather than getting X at Y circle no matter what as is the case with Dances and Berserks now.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
And it will in so far as gaining circles gains you tdp's which you can then spend on the stats that will get you better IF once the model changes. Your suggestion of reduction of cost based on circle is little different than if we simply flat out scaled IF itself on circle. In the end it turns into a system where how you choose to train yourself will not be reflected in your ability to use the guild's abilities. In a flat model such as you propose, a Barbarian at 50th circle will have the same IF and the same dance effect/time, etc regardless if they focus on mentals for learning, strength/stamina or perhaps reflex/agility.
With a model where IF scales based on stats then this introduces some variability and control to the player. It also means that you don't get stuck saying, "I can only dance Dragon once and then I have to wait 30 minutes to get enough IF to redance even while hunting." and getting a response of "You'll need to gain 8 more circles to change that." There is merit to the arguments you are making, but Aurdun has already spoken in regards to the direction he prefers to go on this topic. Circle is not going to be the primary factor of much of anything moving forward. He's even put forth the thought of just giving Barbs straight generic slots and letting them pick abilities as they see fit rather than getting X at Y circle no matter what as is the case with Dances and Berserks now.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
DR-OOLAN
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 04:57 AM CDT
>>If that is true, then you must be going to use concentration (or some other stats based calculation) rather than circle to determin when we can get an ability. Right? That just goes counter to how EVERYTHING is now handed out. Why allow us to learn dances, berserks and roars based on cricle, then use concentration for everything else? Seems counter intuititive. Will all the other guilds change how they get abilities to stats based also?
This argument makes no sense at all. Khris are right now based exactly on concentration and the awarding of them is still based on circle as far as when you get slots. Magic casting ability is based on skills...even max attunement is based on harness skill and yet spell slots are awarded based on circle and many spells have minimum circles as well as other spells as requirements to achieve. Moving IF to a stat based formula does not somehow mean that circle can not be used as a determiner of when slots open up or when you gain certain abilities.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
This argument makes no sense at all. Khris are right now based exactly on concentration and the awarding of them is still based on circle as far as when you get slots. Magic casting ability is based on skills...even max attunement is based on harness skill and yet spell slots are awarded based on circle and many spells have minimum circles as well as other spells as requirements to achieve. Moving IF to a stat based formula does not somehow mean that circle can not be used as a determiner of when slots open up or when you gain certain abilities.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
COVERG
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 05:19 AM CDT
See, Magic and Khris need to be fixed also! Seem the old argument of is Dragon Realms a skill or guild based game came up with a third answer. Niether, it is a stats based game!
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
DWARB-POWER
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 08:18 AM CDT
<<If that is true, then you must be going to use concentration (or some other stats based calculation) rather than circle to determin when we can get an ability. Right? That just goes counter to how EVERYTHING is now handed out.>>
No it isn't. Barbarians have always used our stats to fuel our abilities.
- Simon
No it isn't. Barbarians have always used our stats to fuel our abilities.
- Simon
SUGARSNOUT
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 10:12 AM CDT
>Magdar
Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?
Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?
JMF90
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 11:05 AM CDT
Magdar, I can understand your concerns, but have some faith man.
DWARB-POWER
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 03:29 PM CDT
<<Magic and Khris need to be fixed also! Seem the old argument of is Dragon Realms a skill or guild based game came up with a third answer. Niether, it is a stats based game!>>
It's always been a skill and stat based game. It takes skills and stats to equate to effective skill. Example: Let's say there's two characters: Character A has 600 ranks in twohanded edge and 30 agility. Character B has 600 ranks in twohanded edge and 60 agility. Which do you think will have more effective skill in twohanded edge to be able to hit the target?
In fact, it's almost never ONLY skill that is taken into account.
- Simon
It's always been a skill and stat based game. It takes skills and stats to equate to effective skill. Example: Let's say there's two characters: Character A has 600 ranks in twohanded edge and 30 agility. Character B has 600 ranks in twohanded edge and 60 agility. Which do you think will have more effective skill in twohanded edge to be able to hit the target?
In fact, it's almost never ONLY skill that is taken into account.
- Simon
JMF90
Re: New Inner fire
09/04/2009 05:44 PM CDT
>It's always been a skill and stat based game. It takes skills and stats to equate to effective skill. Example: Let's say there's two characters: Character A has 600 ranks in twohanded edge and 30 agility. Character B has 600 ranks in twohanded edge and 60 agility. Which do you think will have more effective skill in twohanded edge to be able to hit the target?
What circle are they?
What circle are they?
COVERG
Re: New Inner fire
09/06/2009 06:11 AM CDT
Yes, what circle are they!
And yes, we are playing the same game. Lots of our stuff used to have circle in it, I am giving up on asking for it to be included.
We learned dances and berserks at different circles. I thought by using the higher ablitiy (dance or berserk) we would be learning to use our inner fire more effectively. If you never got to learn bear dance, your body and mind never got that level of training in Inner fire use. That may sound like a RP argument, but isn't DR a RP game?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
And yes, we are playing the same game. Lots of our stuff used to have circle in it, I am giving up on asking for it to be included.
We learned dances and berserks at different circles. I thought by using the higher ablitiy (dance or berserk) we would be learning to use our inner fire more effectively. If you never got to learn bear dance, your body and mind never got that level of training in Inner fire use. That may sound like a RP argument, but isn't DR a RP game?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
DWARB-POWER
Re: New Inner fire
09/06/2009 07:08 AM CDT
Your body and mind become more in tune as you raise your stats.
When I think of circles, I think of promotions from a profession. Some guildleaders even refer to it as a promotion as you are leveling up. All that a promotion offers besides TDPs, is the ability to learn new abilities. Giving you more options that you can use (or not use).
Perhaps there will be a meditation that boosts up your regeneration of inner fire or utilizing inner fire more efficiently.
The way it seems to be proposed sounds adequate as you are always boosting up stats as you gain more skills resulting in TDPs. With the expanded inner fire pool (instead of it being static from 1st to 150th), it is going to open up new avenues.
<<Lots of our stuff used to have circle in it>>
Key words - used to. Dragonrealms is an open-ended game.
- Simon
When I think of circles, I think of promotions from a profession. Some guildleaders even refer to it as a promotion as you are leveling up. All that a promotion offers besides TDPs, is the ability to learn new abilities. Giving you more options that you can use (or not use).
Perhaps there will be a meditation that boosts up your regeneration of inner fire or utilizing inner fire more efficiently.
The way it seems to be proposed sounds adequate as you are always boosting up stats as you gain more skills resulting in TDPs. With the expanded inner fire pool (instead of it being static from 1st to 150th), it is going to open up new avenues.
<<Lots of our stuff used to have circle in it>>
Key words - used to. Dragonrealms is an open-ended game.
- Simon
