So I was thinking about the Dragon vs. Eagle conundrum where Dragon only buffs right hand melee weapon and Eagle buffs all ranged weapons no matter the weapon.
What if Dragon and Eagle were changed to buff Melee Mastery and Missile Mastery, respectively, instead of weapons directly. That would take in to account the off-hand weapon for dual wield, wouldn't it? Thoughts?
Pros? Cons?
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
RCHIGHT
FUTILITY
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/23/2018 08:49 PM CDT
Buffing masteries is not something that should be encouraged.
Remember, mastery skills provide a fractional value to your overall weapon score. So you'd really get something like a 6% weapon score buff out of it.
I'd just like to see Dragon updated to use the same mechanics as Oath of the Firstborn because, well, most Barbarians actually dual-wield.
Remember, mastery skills provide a fractional value to your overall weapon score. So you'd really get something like a 6% weapon score buff out of it.
I'd just like to see Dragon updated to use the same mechanics as Oath of the Firstborn because, well, most Barbarians actually dual-wield.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/24/2018 03:39 AM CDT
Masteries have a number of limitations. I don't think they boost your highest weapon, for example (melee mastery is ~100 ranks higher than 2HE for me but I am not noticing that my effective 2HE seems to be higher than indicated by my base ranks), but when back-training they work in combination with Eagle/Dragon, so instead of a 20% buff plus whatever you get from masteries, you'd be removing the 20% buff and buffing the fractional increase instead.
THESAVAGE
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/24/2018 11:09 AM CDT
AFAIK or at least the commonly accepted spread in discussion lately seems to be a 70/30 split of Ranks - Masteries, when mastery > rank. So with 100 points in mastery over your weapon skill, you'd only be feeling an unmodified 30 rank increase, which is easily unnoticed with a 20% buff involved.
RCHIGHT
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/25/2018 01:13 AM CDT
So I've done the math and actually buffing masteries over core weapon skills would benefit us greatly. For example, current maxed Mastery calculation with %20 buff to maxed weapon is...
Mastery: 1750
Weapon: 1750
Effective weapon skill: 1750
Bonused Weapon skill: 1925
Future maxed and buffed Mastery calculation with maxed weapon skill is...
Mastery: 1750
Weapon: 1750
Effective weapon skill: 1750
Bonused Weapon skill: 2275
That's a 250 effective rank increase at end game. Now for the opposite side related to backtraining...
Mastery: 1000
Weapon: 100
Effective weapon skill: 550
Bonused Weapon skill: 560
Future maxed and buffed Mastery calculation with maxed weapon skill is...
Mastery: 1000
Weapon: 100
Effective weapon skill: 550
Bonused Weapon skill: 670
These calculations are using the 1/2 not 1/3 formula but they both come out with bonusing Masteries as giving us more ranks in the weapon we are using. For lower end the current bonus is unnoticed anyway. It's a sliding scale but bonus to Mastery ALWAYS give more bonused weapon ranks no matter the combination.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
Mastery: 1750
Weapon: 1750
Effective weapon skill: 1750
Bonused Weapon skill: 1925
Future maxed and buffed Mastery calculation with maxed weapon skill is...
Mastery: 1750
Weapon: 1750
Effective weapon skill: 1750
Bonused Weapon skill: 2275
That's a 250 effective rank increase at end game. Now for the opposite side related to backtraining...
Mastery: 1000
Weapon: 100
Effective weapon skill: 550
Bonused Weapon skill: 560
Future maxed and buffed Mastery calculation with maxed weapon skill is...
Mastery: 1000
Weapon: 100
Effective weapon skill: 550
Bonused Weapon skill: 670
These calculations are using the 1/2 not 1/3 formula but they both come out with bonusing Masteries as giving us more ranks in the weapon we are using. For lower end the current bonus is unnoticed anyway. It's a sliding scale but bonus to Mastery ALWAYS give more bonused weapon ranks no matter the combination.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/25/2018 05:46 AM CDT
> So with 100 points in mastery over your weapon skill, you'd only be feeling an unmodified 30 rank increase, which is easily unnoticed with a 20% buff involved.
Unbuffed, for base testing purposes. Even hunting at the higher end of the critter ladder, when you first start a new critter, a 30 rank boost is significant when hunting at the very edge of your skill.
I'm very confident, short of having GM confirmation, that masteries have some sort of restrictions in place and do not act as a universal combat buff.
Unbuffed, for base testing purposes. Even hunting at the higher end of the critter ladder, when you first start a new critter, a 30 rank boost is significant when hunting at the very edge of your skill.
I'm very confident, short of having GM confirmation, that masteries have some sort of restrictions in place and do not act as a universal combat buff.
THESAVAGE
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/25/2018 08:47 AM CDT
Ok so, the calc isn't 1/2 for one, so that's going to be a bad place to start from your numbers, but even taking your current math.
Youre saying:
.5(1750 )+ .5(1.2x1750)
or 875 + .5(2100)
or 1925
so 1925 ranks would be the peak result of both skills capped with a mastery buff, vs a clean 2100 rank cap via 1750 weapon ranks plus a 20% bonus.
As mastery only weighs in (even by your calculations) up to 50% of your active skill, you're only getting 50% of that 20% buff. In contrast, with weapon over mastery (or equal to) you're getting 100% of that direct 20% weapon buff.
The only situation where mastery buffs will benefit, under ANY weight calculation, is your second scenario. 100 ranks in weapon, 1000 in mastery. And honestly, that isn't a situation we need to worry about buffing.
Youre saying:
.5(1750 )+ .5(1.2x1750)
or 875 + .5(2100)
or 1925
so 1925 ranks would be the peak result of both skills capped with a mastery buff, vs a clean 2100 rank cap via 1750 weapon ranks plus a 20% bonus.
As mastery only weighs in (even by your calculations) up to 50% of your active skill, you're only getting 50% of that 20% buff. In contrast, with weapon over mastery (or equal to) you're getting 100% of that direct 20% weapon buff.
The only situation where mastery buffs will benefit, under ANY weight calculation, is your second scenario. 100 ranks in weapon, 1000 in mastery. And honestly, that isn't a situation we need to worry about buffing.
RCHIGHT
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/25/2018 05:03 PM CDT
Thanks for the double check. You did indeed find the flaw in my Excel formula math. You are correct. That's why I posted this thread ;-)
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
IVJAMES
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/25/2018 10:07 PM CDT
Okay, I don't do math but:
My masteries are at 1400. My Weapons are at 970.
What is the highest critter in game I could expect to hit?
My masteries are at 1400. My Weapons are at 970.
What is the highest critter in game I could expect to hit?
DRPLAYER1
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/26/2018 03:26 PM CDT
I believe mastery was nerfed shortly after it was implemented to only bonus the TO HIT side of the calculation, not the DAMAGE. When they were first implemented, masteries made things like eagle/dragon completely irrelevant.
URITEL
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/26/2018 03:27 PM CDT
>>What is the highest critter in game I could expect to hit?
Reliably? I'd say small (fuligin umbral) moths.
RCHIGHT
Re: Jack of all Trades...Masteries of None
08/27/2018 08:11 PM CDT
>>What is the highest critter in game I could expect to hit?
>>Reliably? I'd say small (fuligin umbral) moths.
You have roughly 1250 effective weapon ranks with 20% bonus (Dragon/Eagle) up. You can over hunt a bit so small moths (as posted), cabalists or ice archon (if you want to push your limit).
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
>>Reliably? I'd say small (fuligin umbral) moths.
You have roughly 1250 effective weapon ranks with 20% bonus (Dragon/Eagle) up. You can over hunt a bit so small moths (as posted), cabalists or ice archon (if you want to push your limit).
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
