I agree with this. Their dispel should be fixed and have a contest to dispel magic. Also their buffs should be fixed so they can be dispelled by things such as rend, dispel, and ward break etc.. the same way they can dispel magic.

>>I agree with this. Their dispel should be fixed and have a contest to dispel magic. Also their buffs should be fixed so they can be dispelled by things such as rend, dispel, and ward break etc.. the same way they can dispel magic.<<

>Begone, magic-using impostor!

^This. Barbarians can ONLY dispel magic that is on them. We cannot dispel magical affects on other characters. Big difference.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

>> evil magic user's really nasty and cruel words at us!

This is why we can't have nice things!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>I know you understand my point but for posterity I will elaborate. Unlike Rend (debilitation/utility) and Ward Break (debilitation), which are targeted at another character to remove spells on them (rend can target the caster too), our Meditation Dispel (warding) is NOT a targeted spell

These are not targeted spells.

>>and only functions to potentially "clean" the character meditating of any non-Barbarian effects which have been cast on said character

You say "Clean" and I'll say "dispel" cause thats what its called. It's self-cast only but its still a dispel.

>>So how exactly are the targeted debilitation spells like the self-dispel warding meditation, and what check would satisfy you as "all respecting one another and have the SAME (emphasis mine) checks and balances to them?"

Buffs are cast with certain skills and stats affecting their duration and affects. As are debuffs. These should be respected universally regardless of "Flavor" for the player facing unit (what the player sees). The back-end should treat all of these the same for balance's sake. This means there should be skill checks for caster vs castee to dispel spells AND spell-like abilities. If you are dispelling magic, your wards and buffs should be fair game like everyone elses.

>>We don't have TM to check against either.

lol. Whats using TM exactly?

Dispel is a warding v. <skill of spell being dispelled> contest, that skill usually being debilitation. It comes at an opportunity cost of needing to keep a meditation slot free.

Rend and Ward Break are offensive debilitation spells, you are trying to break buffs/wards on someone else. Dispel is a defensive warding ability, you are trying to remove magic on you. In this way it's much closer to Scream Defiance or Anti-Stun, and not very similar at all to Ward Break or Rend.

The only way Barbarians can (offensively) interact with magic is by possibly interrupting a spell being prepared. That function isn't unique to Barbarians. Mages can tank a Barbarian's inner fire (and possibly drop a lot of their buffs) by blasting through Serenity, and protect against roars with roar cloaks, a somewhat common festival item.

Removing a debuff on yourself is not at all comparable, or equitable, to being able to use Ward Break to interrupt Serenity meditation (what I assume you had in mind). The equitable design would also be allowing Barbarians to use roars to remove mage wards/buffs, and I don't think you want to let us do that.

>>Removing a debuff on yourself is not at all comparable, or equitable, to being able to use Ward Break to interrupt Serenity meditation (what I assume you had in mind). The equitable design would also be allowing Barbarians to use roars to remove mage wards/buffs, and I don't think you want to let us do that.

You'd be wrong. With appropriate checks, balances, and cooldowns I believe dispels should be more of a "thing" all around. My goal isnt for magic to be all powerful, its for abilities on all ends to have similar functionality. Being immune to all magic shouldnt be a thing, nor should being immune to all physical damage (something certain casters can do until the pending ward rewrite). Its broken gameplay. Broken ward stacking on the magic end is going away. It needs to be done away with on all ends and let stats and skills be the determining factor. Not broken old systems.

>You'd be wrong. With appropriate checks, balances, and cooldowns I believe dispels should be more of a "thing" all around. My goal isnt for magic to be all powerful, its for abilities on all ends to have similar functionality. Being immune to all magic shouldnt be a thing, nor should being immune to all physical damage (something certain casters can do until the pending ward rewrite). Its broken gameplay. Broken ward stacking on the magic end is going away. It needs to be done away with on all ends and let stats and skills be the determining factor. Not broken old systems.

I can't speak to how they work at 1750 tert ranks, but at circle 120 I'm nowhere close to magical immunity with my wards. Unless you have some combat logs from TF, I'm not sure where that notion is coming from.

Barbarian wards are among the most powerful in the game, as they thematically should be, but there's nothing unbalanced about them that I've seen.

If they need to be down-tweaked at the very high end, I imagine the aforementioned barrier review will fix that problem.

>That you've seen, being the key words. I know you arent arguing that, but they do give virtual immunity to spells being cast at them.

>I know you dont believe that to be true, but it does eventually happen.

I've tested our wards extensively with a 100+ Cleric, Moon Mage, and am gonna test with a Warrior Mage soon whenever we can find the time. I'll be happy to share the results when they're available. As a single point of reference, a circle 98 Cleric as able to land Soul Sickness on me through both Turtle and Serenity.

Was the immobilize long? No. Did he need to prep higher and longer than normal? Of course. But someone ~20 circles below me landing a non-capped cast on me through two barriers does not strike me as magical immunity.

>I'm not sure quite at what point it happens but there appears to be no check involved once a barb reaches a certain point. I cant cast through barbarians with significantly less stats and hundreds of less ranks than I have in pretty much every skill.

With respect friend, the more I read, the more I'm convinced you tried to PvP a Barb one or two times by snap-casting min mana spells at them, and then when the spell backfired, you assumed they were magically immune. Our wards go through the same contests as any other wards in the game. The strength of our wards is determined by our magic skills, like any other guild in the game.

When casting against a high-level Barbarian, you are almost assuredly contesting both a strong potency barrier (Turtle) and a strong integrity barrier (Serenity), and a targeted spell would also have to get through Toad. Landing your disablers is completely possible, but you need to go into the fight knowing you will need to prep higher and possibly prep longer than the snap-casting using macros or triggers that most PvP involves.

And what's wrong with that? When I'm throwing a HT at a Cleric, it needs to contest an evasion buff, a shield buff, a ranged weapon debuff, and then it gets a percentage of damage reduced by MPP before it finally spits out actual damage.

The major problem with non-Barbarian potency/integrity barriers is that they have a theme of being battle spells, which means they don't see much use because of low duration. Asking for, I don't know, Soldier's Prayer and Lay Ward to become standard buffs with 20+ minute durations sounds reasonable to me. The fact that other guilds have niche or unused barriers is not a Barbarian design problem.

>>With respect friend, the more I read, the more I'm convinced you tried to PvP a Barb one or two times by snap-casting min mana spells at them, and then when the spell backfired, you assumed they were magically immune. Our wards go through the same contests as any other wards in the game. The strength of our wards is determined by our magic skills, like any other guild in the game.

You are wrong. And I promise you I've PVP'd more than you can imagine.

>>When casting against a high-level Barbarian, you are almost assuredly contesting both a strong potency barrier (Turtle) and a strong integrity barrier (Serenity), and a targeted spell would also have to get through Toad. Landing your disablers is completely possible, but you need to go into the fight knowing you will need to prep higher and possibly prep longer than the snap-casting using macros or triggers that most PvP involves.

I can prep my spells at the maximum possible cast and still not go through when casting on a barbarian of significantly lesser skill (Hundreds of ranks in every measurable skill, however the barbarian is still 150th which is my point. I believe once a barbarian reaches a certain point skill does not matter). I can provide logs to any gamemasters who request it although I am loathe to provide my own ranks or others ranks on the forums.

>>And what's wrong with that? When I'm throwing a HT at a Cleric, it needs to contest an evasion buff, a shield buff, a ranged weapon debuff, and then it gets a percentage of damage reduced by MPP before it finally spits out actual damage.

Nothing at all. I agree with you that it should work this way if this was how it worked, but I'm saying it does not. I dont think you are big enough yet to see the break point.

>>The major problem with non-Barbarian potency/integrity barriers is that they have a theme of being battle spells, which means they don't see much use because of low duration. Asking for, I don't know, Soldier's Prayer and Lay Ward to become standard buffs with 20+ minute durations sounds reasonable to me. The fact that other guilds have niche or unused barriers is not a Barbarian design problem.

I dont think this has much to do with the real issue though so I wont comment cause it could cause more of a tangent.

It all sounds made up.

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade