Since I was so nicely asked to move my comments over to the Conflicts folder by MOD-Hagar.

<<Bavest

Who is this guy, sorry but I have never even heard of you. However, to answer
your question, Ive been playing off and on since AOL. Barbies have been coddled
for so long the first time ya'll take a nerf (in quite a bit) you cry bloody
murder. Wonder how big the tears will be when BMR gets changed?

Remember how MMs were crying when MB took a double nerf and every barbie said
that it was a long time coming? Well, shoe is on the other foot today. On the
plus side, looks like MMs might even receive some type of magical defense
against mystical and supernatural fear effects. Even though I lost over half my
concentration today, I still feel all warm and tingly.

Misery loves company,

Stolas

---

The views expressed in this post are in no way endorsed by the Moon Mage guild or the Progeny of Tezirah sect ... but I am sure they will come around.

Do you really think this was a good idea, with all the dumb things you post and do IG?

---

******************
SEND[Lirrak] I've got permaconsent on you and Im gonna find you now
******************

>>whipped by the majority of barbs within 10 to 20 circles under you.

Strength shouldn't be based off of circle, especially when Barbarians need what, like 5-6 weapon ranks per circle, and Moon Mages need 0?

I would, instead, base "whipping potential" off of flat combat skill.

__
We are still discussing options and we are still trying to find the best plan we can that will not bring about the end of the world as we all know it. Well, that isn't necessarily accurate. The world as you know it will end.

<<Wonder how big the tears will be when BMR gets changed?
<<Stolas

What are you three years old? Holy crap you're semi amusing.



Drevid

---

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html

Cylons... why debugging matters.

Venic smiles as he sticks his copper bead in one nostril, covers the other one, and exhales forcefully, shooting the bead directly at Drevid!

<<there is currently no one pushing for Barbarians and Barbarians alone.>>

I am pushing for Barbarians? [boggle]

Do you think I'm against you or something?

-Ssra

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."

<<I am pushing for Barbarians? [boggle]

Where is my flying car dammit!!


Drevid

---

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html

Cylons... why debugging matters.

Venic smiles as he sticks his copper bead in one nostril, covers the other one, and exhales forcefully, shooting the bead directly at Drevid!

>>I am pushing for Barbarians? [boggle]

Yes, you are and we appreciate what you are doing to help but a lot of us feel that we've basically been handed this duration nerf with no chance at reversing it.

While they may be a few tweaks here and there we're basically never going to get back the 25 min dance cap because all of a sudden things have changed and 25 minutes was just too long and it wasn't within future normalization plans.

I'd just like to point out one thing. This game is about fun. I know Dart mentioned that other things will eventually fall into this duration schema however if thats the case I'd imagine a lot of mages up and quitting if their spells typically lasted around 10 minutes with a max end game duration of 20.

WoW made the move away from 5 minute Paladin Blessings and 5 minute Shaman weapon enchants for a reason. Nobody wants to keep refreshing the same spell over and over and over while they play.

I know a number of mages who can take up to 10 minutes just applying all their spells in preparation for a tournament or a spar. Now imagine their spells starting to run out before they even finish.

Frankly I'd like to see this trend reversed and we head in the opposite direction. Let's extend things. I think 25 minutes was fine for dances since we don't have mana limitations. Any lower and it just becomes tedious.

Ssra, I know you and I tested last night and found 6 minutes to be my passive IF regen but even 6 minutes is more than I want to spend standing around. If I need a dance to hunt then I won't be regaining that necessary IF from killing creatures.

6 minutes may not seem like a lot in the grand scheme of life but in a video game where time matters - where we can't all AFK our ranks to 2000 and most of us only get a few hours a night, spending a large portion of my time "down" just isn't fun.

Anyways, I hope I'm still being constructive in all this. I'm tying to stay positive but its hard.


-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

LOL, I would have something to say here but it looks like everyone else has pretty well handled it already.

On a side note though, I will say that you have never seen me, nor will you ever see me, in your guild's folders complaining about your abilities. Go be a moonie. Leave us to be barbs and worry about matters that pertain to us.

Thanks for the support team!

Bavest Anveron

<<I know a number of mages who can take up to 10 minutes just applying all their spells in preparation for a tournament or a spar. Now imagine their spells starting to run out before they even finish.

Aren't you lucky you only have to type one command to get all the same boosts?

<<Frankly I'd like to see this trend reversed and we head in the opposite direction. Let's extend things. I think 25 minutes was fine for dances since we don't have mana limitations. Any lower and it just becomes tedious.

25 minutes for a large group of percentage bonuses to all combat skills? Nothing with that type of bonus lasts so long. If it lasts 25 minutes, the power should probably drop. 25 minutes is a pretty freaking long time for any ability to last. I ran a low level khri the other day and I was amazed when it lasted 20 min under old concentration. Shows you what kind of duration I am used to.

<<Ssra, I know you and I tested last night and found 6 minutes to be my passive IF regen but even 6 minutes is more than I want to spend standing around. If I need a dance to hunt then I won't be regaining that necessary IF from killing creatures.

So basically you want the most powerful booster in DR to last almost a half hour, but you want the IF regen *out of combat* to be less than 5 minutes? I mean, basically you want there to be no downtime in combat, since you can obviously gain IF faster in combat than out of it. Are there any drawbacks to your proposed upgrades to dragon dance?

It's pretty LOL to see these people that know absolutely nothing about barbarian abilities (strange (rx4pain), Stolas (lol you're horrible), Mazrian (board troll)) try to talk about how they work. I understand that you feel this is your big chance to troll and get back at us because our abilities have remained unchanged for so long. You should remember, two of you are MAGIC guilds, one of you is a SURVIVAL/STEALTH guild. We're a WEAPONS/COMBAT guild, so QQ about our combat boosts being the best. It should be this way.

In conclusion, QQ.

In conclusions again, LAWL stolas...

6 minutes may not seem like a lot in the grand scheme of life but in a video game where time matters - where we can't all AFK our ranks to 2000 and most of us only get a few hours a night, spending a large portion of my time "down" just isn't fun.

I'd like to point out that no one in any instance is even close to hitting 2000 ranks afk or not. Lets no take pot shots at TF it isnt conctructive and we're feeling these changes just as badly as prime. We are testing right along with you guys to make sure these unfortunate changes and all we want is the best for us all as Barbarians.

Denz

---

Want to forge? Become a barbarian. Want to make armor? Become a paladin! For years and years people that wanted to forge made these choices. Respect them and the history they represent. Carry our traditions forward.

>>Are there any drawbacks to your proposed upgrades to dragon dance?

They aren't "upgrades" at all. That is how Dragon Dance has always functioned and now, the new capped duration being 20 minutes aside, Dragon's cap is much harder to reach than it has ever previously been.

A) % boosters require hundreds of ranks before they start out-pacing pure rank boosters.

B) Dances often require double, if not triple, the amount of circles before they can be used with any normalcy (e.g., Eagle Dance does not reach maximum duration until about 80-90th circle).

Mages take a long time to cap spells, certainly, but my Cleric could walk around with POM constantly on immediately when he got it. Such is the case for many, many spells. Dances do not become reliable on a regular basis often times until you've doubled (or even tripled) the circle at which you get them. This is not the case for 95% of the abilities in Dragonrealms. Dances already have that rather huge drawback to offset their convenience and power.
*******
Because it's a gigantic can of worms. Eldritch, necrotic, squamous worms, writhing in a vile stew of coagulating ichor, crushed from the living gullets of a thousand infant puppies, ululating in wordless terror.

>>I'd like to point out that no one in any instance is even close to hitting 2000 ranks afk or not. Lets no take pot shots at TF it isnt conctructive and we're feeling these changes just as badly as prime. We are testing right along with you guys to make sure these unfortunate changes and all we want is the best for us all as Barbarians.

Apologies if you felt slighted by it but my comment had merit. During my talks with Ssra one of his counter points was that folks in TF do not seem to need Dragon Dance for training.

I personally think comparing the two is a huge disservice. At no point were we ever told that Dragon was supposed to be a limited niche tool that had no place in training.

Speaking to the few Barbarian folks over here in Prime who play Dragon seems to be a necessity.


-Galren Moonskin

E.`'/. F
Your tears fuel me

!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

I've stopped using dragon at level just because it doesn't last long enough anymore. Can't really dance it back to back unless I hunt slightly above level so I just use badger or wolverine now which I can do back to back. Dragon just seems very situational now and it shouldn't be for our most powerful ability.

>>The likely reason for not needing Dragon Dance for training in TF is we don't tend to over hunt and we like to milk creatuers. I don't play a barbarian but I didn't put any buffs in my scripts till I was around 80th circle. I still don't need them really but it's good for training magics

It is a lot easier for you guys to milk creatures without going clinically insane.

I sat in bristle back peccaries in Rossmans from 58 to 72 at which point I moved to raiders only because of the intense pain that came from hunting the same creature for over 2 years.

Believe me, scripts would be infinitely easier to write and maintain if I didn't have to worry about buffs or magic or anything. Just go in, parry a bit, hack and slash then go juggle. Easy. Unfortunately, the only way to myself from clawing my eyes out as I watch just one more peccary pass into oblivion was to move out of there and into something new.

By the way, do you know what I was training on before I moved to Rossman's bristle back peccaries? Yeah... baby peccaries and regular peccaries.

To me, saying "Well you shouldn't need to train with abilities" is like asking someone to take the 25 mph back road instead of the highway to get to work.

In all the MMOs I've ever played, up to and including WoW, nobody goes, "Well, I COULD use (insert ability) and kill creatures slightly above me in order progress easier and have more fun BUT I think I'd rather just use my plain old auto attack an have zero risk/reward or fun."

I guess thieves shouldn't need anything to buff their attacks even if their hiding outpaces their weapon. They can just under hunt and milk smaller creatures until their weapon catches up. See how silly that sounds?

I'd also like to point out that in TF you guys have hyper inflated stats. Most Barbarians here in Prime don't have the same kinda ranks in secondary and tert skills that you guys have. As those ranks grow the TDP difference becomes even larger.


-Galren Moonskin

E.?`'/?. F
Your tears fuel me

!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

I was giving you a reason for what Ssra said. You still don't need dragon to train, it's just so you don't claw your eyes out as you said. It'll still help with that even at shorter duration

>>I was giving you a reason for what Ssra said. You still don't need dragon to train, it's just so you don't claw your eyes out as you said. It'll still help with that even at shorter duration

You are kidding right?

Do you guys go into combat for 10-12 minutes over there then just stop for 6 or so minutes once the dance is up? Chances are if you NEED dragon to train, you're not gonna still be in combat once its down.

What about the non-training functions of dragon dance? I'll really love it in the next war when I'm standing under the barricade with the 3 people people able to survive the oil, arrows and rocks and then OOPS, there goes dragon, excuse me guys while I go sit in the triage for 5-8 minutes and regain that inner fire. Good luck breaking that wall!

-Galren Moonskin

E.?`'/?. F
Your tears fuel me

!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

<<What about the non-training functions of dragon dance? I'll really love it in the next war when I'm standing under the barricade with the 3 people people able to survive the oil, arrows and rocks and then OOPS, there goes dragon, excuse me guys while I go sit in the triage for 5-8 minutes and regain that inner fire.

Imagine how magic tert guilds feel. Let's also not forget to mention thieves, who have the same type of downtime you are talking about, except thieves don't have the option of actively regaining their special ability pool by killing monsters. Did I also mention that not of those guilds I've mention have the same skillset advantages, and probably need to rely even more on special abilities than you do?

25 minutes for that kind of package boost with those percentage modifiers can not be expected to run back to back to back.

>>Apologies if you felt slighted by it but my comment had merit. During my talks with Ssra one of his counter points was that folks in TF do not seem to need Dragon Dance for training.

The post below pretty much sums up why most of us in TF don't use it

>>I've stopped using dragon at level just because it doesn't last long enough anymore. Can't really dance it back to back unless I hunt slightly above level so I just use badger or wolverine now which I can do back to back. Dragon just seems very situational now and it shouldn't be for our most powerful ability


Denz

---

Want to forge? Become a barbarian. Want to make armor? Become a paladin! For years and years people that wanted to forge made these choices. Respect them and the history they represent. Carry our traditions forward.

I had used dragon to make it easier to hit at level critters with lower weaponry but now it's just not worth it. I'll use badger for defenses, switch to cobra or wolverine and dance them non-stop.