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I'm uncomfortable with having a way to learn debilitation outside of combat when, as far as I can tell, no one else can. I love the fact that I can sit in my forge and learn it in between hammering, but it doesn't seem entirely fair.
I know there was some talk about it before, but I thought I'd bring it up again.
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CARAAMON
DUNEPLAY
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/11/2014 07:45 PM CDT
Caraamon, rest easy, I overheard some mages talking about how they loved learning ALL their magics while sitting. But perhaps you mean, while moving around and smithing. If so, then I think you are right as they have to sit and do nothing else--if I understood what I overheard correctly.
Shinarah
Shinarah
DR-KODIUS
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/11/2014 08:20 PM CDT
Hurgh, that was actually a bug that I thought was fixed. I'll get around to making roars teach other stuff when time allows.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/11/2014 09:03 PM CDT
>If so, then I think you are right as they have to sit and do nothing else--if I understood what I overheard correctly.
They don't have to sit and do nothing else. It's restrictive, but not quite as harsh as 'literally just wait for timer to expire' restrictive.
Also, it doesn't lock every magic. TM and debilitation are out, and if you want to train sorcery it requires a significant risk of death as well as an extra time period.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
They don't have to sit and do nothing else. It's restrictive, but not quite as harsh as 'literally just wait for timer to expire' restrictive.
Also, it doesn't lock every magic. TM and debilitation are out, and if you want to train sorcery it requires a significant risk of death as well as an extra time period.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
DUNEPLAY
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/12/2014 12:36 AM CDT
Oh thanks for the clarification, but I thought when they research stuff they couldn't do anything but "study".
Shinarah
Shinarah
ABSOLON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/12/2014 01:30 AM CDT
<<Oh thanks for the clarification, but I thought when they research stuff they couldn't do anything but "study"
Certain actions are possible, but the list is quite limited. Things that I have discovered:
Possible:
-braiding
-foraging and collecting
-focusing on magical devices
-power walking (of the moon mage variety at least)
-basic movement
Not possible:
-combat (even just being engaged will break your research)
-climbing
-spellcasting (i.e. prepare, charge, invoke, cast)
I haven't done extensive testing to see if there's anything else. Those are just the things I commonly do while training.
Certain actions are possible, but the list is quite limited. Things that I have discovered:
Possible:
-braiding
-foraging and collecting
-focusing on magical devices
-power walking (of the moon mage variety at least)
-basic movement
Not possible:
-combat (even just being engaged will break your research)
-climbing
-spellcasting (i.e. prepare, charge, invoke, cast)
I haven't done extensive testing to see if there's anything else. Those are just the things I commonly do while training.
JARAGONA
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/12/2014 05:50 AM CDT
You can learn debilitation out of combat, no matter what changes: classes. I am not against the idea of it being learned out of combat through the research system, seeing as it's scholastic like a class.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/12/2014 07:57 AM CDT
Classes aren't a qualifier here. By your definition nothing is a combat r non combat skill since you can learn everything from classes. The general consideration is if the only non combat way to earn a skill reliably and effectively is combat, it's a combat skill. Weapons, armors, TM, debilitation, etc.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
DR-ARMIFER
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/12/2014 08:32 AM CDT
There's no need for arguement: Kodius has already said, and I will reaffirm, that it is not intended for people to learn Debilitation using research options and it will be changed.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
MEDWARDL1
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/18/2014 08:11 PM CDT
Didn't realize research wasn't meant to teach debilitation till i just read it. Must be you fixed it today as debilitation is no longer learning from research which is why I came here to figure out what was going on.
DR-KODIUS
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/18/2014 08:18 PM CDT
Yes, I changed it to now teach extra IF skill.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
MEDWARDL1
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/18/2014 08:46 PM CDT
It will be a while till i get to it I'm still back training non combat and crafting but debilitation is shaping up to be one of the more annoying skills to train. I'm guessing I'll just have to sit in combat with something that wont beable to kill me hopefully and just repeatedly roar then wait to drain then start roaring again. Looks like it is one of those skills that has to be learned by itself until it is caught up with the rest or it won't train.
DR-KODIUS
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/19/2014 01:48 AM CDT
Well, you don't technically have to use Roars as a Barbarian. You could choose to ignore those abilities and pick up additional Berserks or Meditations instead.
All Guilds must now learn Debilitation. It is more annoying, but we hope it is also more balanced because the contest is no longer purely stat based. You may consider picking up the Cyclone Berserk for enhanced roar recovery to help you train. Also, roaring on a group of targets will teach better than one at a time (though it is harder).
Much like anything in DR, it may take a little work to find your ideal learning spot. If you cannot affect your enemies at all, then I'd recommend getting to melee and shoving them on their back first. Or perhaps stunning them first. Both help make the contest easier. And in that case, be sure to roar just AT the one target.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
All Guilds must now learn Debilitation. It is more annoying, but we hope it is also more balanced because the contest is no longer purely stat based. You may consider picking up the Cyclone Berserk for enhanced roar recovery to help you train. Also, roaring on a group of targets will teach better than one at a time (though it is harder).
Much like anything in DR, it may take a little work to find your ideal learning spot. If you cannot affect your enemies at all, then I'd recommend getting to melee and shoving them on their back first. Or perhaps stunning them first. Both help make the contest easier. And in that case, be sure to roar just AT the one target.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DUNEPLAY
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/19/2014 10:08 PM CDT
Kodius I know you had to make things work with the other guilds so we now have to learn magic. But do you know how hard it is to convince someone to teach this little barb debilitation, augmentation and warding? I shuddered each time I asked for :shudder: magic training.
So I was wondering has anyone made up any kind of backstory as to why barbs now learn magic?
I can see why the guild leaders just pass us a note saying what we can choose. I wouldn't want to speak the magic words either. : P
Shinarah
So I was wondering has anyone made up any kind of backstory as to why barbs now learn magic?
I can see why the guild leaders just pass us a note saying what we can choose. I wouldn't want to speak the magic words either. : P
Shinarah
ALGOTHI
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/19/2014 10:28 PM CDT
>So I was wondering has anyone made up any kind of backstory as to why barbs now learn magic?
Its Inner Fire, not magic. What Barbarians do, lorewise, is quite different from what Mages do to cast spells. Barbarians dont deal with mana, spell patterns or spell energy. Its named the supernatural skill set for Barbs and Thieves for a reason.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Its Inner Fire, not magic. What Barbarians do, lorewise, is quite different from what Mages do to cast spells. Barbarians dont deal with mana, spell patterns or spell energy. Its named the supernatural skill set for Barbs and Thieves for a reason.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
JARAGONA
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 06:02 AM CDT
Once upon a time, I could have sworn that MUs would not be able to teach magic skills to nonMUs, and vice versa. Not that this has been implemented, but I thought it was going to be. Maybe that'd help with the RP schtick.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
CARAAMON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 08:19 AM CDT
I agree with Squanto.
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Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 12:11 PM CDT
Then think of it less as magic training and more as 'using your skills to affect yourself and opponents in specific manner'. Someone made a pretty compelling argument for replacing 'Targeted Magic' with 'Offensive Force Manipulation' or something the like, to accomodate pets and different kind of TM spells.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 12:16 PM CDT
I wouldn't mind renaming TM if I could think of an alternative that didn't offend me.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
BADGOPHER
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 02:14 PM CDT
Offensive bowel control?
Preternatural accuracy or targeting or aiming?
I'm not even sure how a barb or thief would TM something given how barb and thief mechanics work. If I could even imagine that, I could start guesstimating names.
Preternatural accuracy or targeting or aiming?
I'm not even sure how a barb or thief would TM something given how barb and thief mechanics work. If I could even imagine that, I could start guesstimating names.
COVERG
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 03:23 PM CDT
Distance Strike
Far Attack
Directed Damage
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
Far Attack
Directed Damage
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
TEVESHSZAT
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 03:43 PM CDT
Directed Damage would make the most sense, since TM doesn't require a specific range.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
CARAAMON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 04:08 PM CDT
>Directed Damage would make the most sense, since TM doesn't require a specific range.
Yeah, but not all TM spells are damaging. At least, not since the Empaths got their doohicky.
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http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Yeah, but not all TM spells are damaging. At least, not since the Empaths got their doohicky.
Weapons for Sale:
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Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
TEVESHSZAT
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 05:14 PM CDT
>>Yeah, but not all TM spells are damaging.
Eh, it depends on how you define damage, really. I'd consider having someone's arm go numb or fall over immobile pretty damaging.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Eh, it depends on how you define damage, really. I'd consider having someone's arm go numb or fall over immobile pretty damaging.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ROBERTDH
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 05:40 PM CDT
Paeldrynth's wrath is just an engagement modifier.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
BADGOPHER
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/20/2014 05:40 PM CDT
>Distance Strike
Sounds like a ranged physical attack.
>Far Attack
Bow use.
>Directed Damage
All damage is directed, except possibly Fire rain and similar AoE spells. This term would include regular weapons too, since those are 'directed' damage.
Sounds like a ranged physical attack.
>Far Attack
Bow use.
>Directed Damage
All damage is directed, except possibly Fire rain and similar AoE spells. This term would include regular weapons too, since those are 'directed' damage.
ABSOLON
CARAAMON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 03:08 AM CDT
Hmmm.
Channeled force?
Targeted energy?
See, here's the issue I'm coming up with. Since we've made the Magic skillset encompass all supernatural things (a good thing I think) we've removed the primary defining characteristic of these skills, namely that they're magic.
An illustration of this would be thief ambushes. Why is clubbing someone in the back of the head Debilitation but clubbing them in the face Small Blunt? The obvious answer is because it doesn't do damage. The problem comes up when you then ask why clubbing them in the face isn't Targeted Magic, since it does damage.
Basically, we need a better definition of what falls under Targeted Magic or it's successor before we can really start talking about renaming it.
Weapons for Sale:
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Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Channeled force?
Targeted energy?
See, here's the issue I'm coming up with. Since we've made the Magic skillset encompass all supernatural things (a good thing I think) we've removed the primary defining characteristic of these skills, namely that they're magic.
An illustration of this would be thief ambushes. Why is clubbing someone in the back of the head Debilitation but clubbing them in the face Small Blunt? The obvious answer is because it doesn't do damage. The problem comes up when you then ask why clubbing them in the face isn't Targeted Magic, since it does damage.
Basically, we need a better definition of what falls under Targeted Magic or it's successor before we can really start talking about renaming it.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
ABSOLON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 03:35 AM CDT
<<Hmmm.
<<Channeled force?
<<Targeted energy?
It doesn't need the adjective. It's not Magical Warding or Supernatural Utility, for example, despite both of those adjectives being correct. Force would be enough to describe it, and it's placement in the magic/supernatural skillset is enough to keep the definition within that scope.
It also allows for a larger scope than just aimed magical damage, which is something that Empaths and now Barbarians and Thieves have had to work around in different ways. Even standard MU classes have butted heads with the term's definition on occasion with spells like Paeldryth's Wrath effects that don't do damage in a way that would normally be thought of as capable of being physically dodged, such as blanket AoE's or purely mental effects (e.g. Chorus of Madmen). Force would cover all of these quite easily since it just implies that you're exerting a force effect against someone, but doesn't limit it to a certain way conceptually.
<<Channeled force?
<<Targeted energy?
It doesn't need the adjective. It's not Magical Warding or Supernatural Utility, for example, despite both of those adjectives being correct. Force would be enough to describe it, and it's placement in the magic/supernatural skillset is enough to keep the definition within that scope.
It also allows for a larger scope than just aimed magical damage, which is something that Empaths and now Barbarians and Thieves have had to work around in different ways. Even standard MU classes have butted heads with the term's definition on occasion with spells like Paeldryth's Wrath effects that don't do damage in a way that would normally be thought of as capable of being physically dodged, such as blanket AoE's or purely mental effects (e.g. Chorus of Madmen). Force would cover all of these quite easily since it just implies that you're exerting a force effect against someone, but doesn't limit it to a certain way conceptually.
JARAGONA
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 05:15 AM CDT
Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel? Also, it seems we've drastically drifted from the topic of this thread. Typical for us, of course.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
ABSOLON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 05:33 AM CDT
<<Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel?
The wheel has already been reinvented. We're just still calling it by it's old name despite it being different enough to warrant a new name.
The wheel has already been reinvented. We're just still calling it by it's old name despite it being different enough to warrant a new name.
JARAGONA
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 05:39 AM CDT
Has it been reinvented or just expanded?
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
ABSOLON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 05:42 AM CDT
Given that non-damaging non-aimed non-spells are using a skill called Targeted Magic I would classify that as reinvention.
ILLIENA
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 05:50 AM CDT
I'm partial to Devastation, since it fits with Augmentation and Debilitation. While we're at it, rename Warding to Protestation or Mitigation.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 06:19 AM CDT
This is the most non barb topic I've ever seen. Leave tm to the finger waddlers and call it finger blasting for all I care.
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JARAGONA
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 06:20 AM CDT
>>This is the most non barb topic I've ever seen. Leave tm to the finger waddlers and call it finger blasting for all I care.
^^ Phil always says things best.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
^^ Phil always says things best.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
BADGOPHER
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 08:00 AM CDT
I'm an idiot. The most obvious, glaring, name is destruction.
We have augmentation, warding, TM is simply magic based destruction.
We have augmentation, warding, TM is simply magic based destruction.
CARAAMON
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 08:04 AM CDT
.... I like it. Destruction.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
DISCOTEQ21
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 08:55 AM CDT
But not for empaths try don't destroy.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
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TEVESHSZAT
Re: MEDITATE RESEARCH debilitation
05/21/2014 08:56 AM CDT
Hear that? Caraamon likes destruction magic.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
