I have tested both at mid-level PVP. It's hard to say what's mid-level but I have 600's in weapons + "magic" skills and 900s in masteries + expertise. Wail tends to not have as many counters as Strike (immobilize vs stun). There appears to be more anti-stuns in the game than anti-immobilized. Also, Wail is easier to get off effectively for some reason (probably because of the anti-stun spells). End game? I don't know.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Rage is more useful than Anger, endgame you will probably never use Anger in pvp. I did use it a bit in low level pvp situations.

Rage is a really great roar to use in hunting as well as it helps you kill faster and keep your IF moving.

I use Rage to train with all my barbarians. Currently I have anger as well but that is simply to open up the tree.

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Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

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Debuff generally means to penalize and the two are pretty much synonymous within DR. Not as a hard definition since debuff literally means to remove a buff, but colloquially as in the opposite of a buff. In DR jargon, dispel would mean to remove a buff. If unsure of an actual effect from a game description, the wiki is pretty explicit about these things in the effects line of spells and abilities. Those two are listed as -Evasion skill and -Shield Usage skill respectively, for example.

I feel these don't last particularly long - I know that's a function of the svs failure, but I think this is one reason pulsing debils like dema, or cyclic debils like dalu or hyh or EE feel so much more potent.

Maybe if the effect in pve was longer id find a more significant impact with them. As is, I roar rage quietly to hit all engaged, then whirl, and treat this as a way to train debil (which is easy) and get a few tics of le/lb/offhand in. Hardly a tool I consider clutch for barbing it up.

> In PvE enemies die in 3-7 hits anyways, so you feel the difference a bit better.

But there's no point in offensive debuffs in PvE if one of the critters will be dead in 3-7 swings anyway, and the other three will shake the debuff in about that time as well. Unless the intent is that we ROAR ANGER every ~45s (I don't think that's the intent).

>Cyclics have long been a problem compared to every other spell and ability out there. We really need better rules - but writing those rules will upset a significant portion of the player base any way you cut it.

I think the issue is that cyclic debils 'do their thing' ALL the time, to EVERY critter engaged. Non-cyclic debils don't, and offensive debuffs are effectively useless as a result.

>This is about how often I cast Mind Shout or Demriss' Resolve, so it's not out of the ballpark in terms of how often an AoE debilitation should be getting used normally.

But you aren't relying on voice pool. There is no way to keep this up for more than 4-5 times in a row at the high end. The cost to voice compared to mana is non-existent. We have one berserk (which uses IF very fast) that increased our voice recovery. How often do you run out of mana or the ability to use your debil? Our voice pool is static, you have the ability to get into more mana with skill and with objects and with harness.

If you come to the barbarians folders be ready to discuss barbarian issues on our terms with your eyes wide open and with all the facts on your side, positive or negative.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

Well my intent is not to be obnoxious. My intent is to make sure that the discussion is on a level that compares reality to reality. If you are offended, I'm sorry. I've known your characters a long time and always respected them. However, when comments don't add to the reality of the situation being discussed what do you expect? Would you put up with that in the cleric folder? Really?

I'm being a bit aggressive/obtuse here because I'm seeing the fate of our guild at a precipice. Higher level/Older barbs are not happy with how things are going and if we don't focus on the reality, in a positive way, then we can kiss the guild goodbye. No one will ever play a barbarian again except as a novelty.

Please, understand, I appreciate your posting here and hope you continue, but please make an effort to understand our situation and provide all the information in context to our guild abilities otherwise it's just noise.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

Okay - I'll submit. I'm sorry. I really wasn't attacking you even though looking back at my posts it definitely could come across that way.

So, to bring this back on topic and to address your post more in line with being positive.

>so it's not out of the ballpark in terms of how often an AoE debilitation should be getting used normally.

Yes it is out of the ballpark in terms of being a barbarian because our AOE debilitation can only be effectively "cast" 3-5 times max in a row with no rest to our voice.

I understand we are Magic tertiary. However, barbarians are by definition not Magic Users, even less so than Thieves and Traders. I believe we deserve special dispensation to our Supernatural Abilities that go around Magic 3.0(+) rules because we are not and never will be Magic users.

Is there an easy answer to this from a code perspective. Of course not. But philosophically we deserve the ability to debilitate critters and players as often as MU guilds because we are "intimidating" again by definition.

Again, please accept my apologies for being a bit to aggressive in my posts.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

Here's an additional hint: You seem to think that I'm arguing against something for some reason, presumably because I'm a magic user. I'm not.

>This is about how often I cast Mind Shout or Demriss' Resolve, so it's not out of the ballpark in terms of how often an AoE debilitation should be getting used normally.

Wow, curious. I guess I don't use DMRS or DEMA all that often because I'm not over hunting on the Bard right now (and DALU trains Debil quite well and quite fast).

<<Wow, curious. I guess I don't use DMRS or DEMA all that often because I'm not over hunting on the Bard right now (and DALU trains Debil quite well and quite fast).

I don't have DALU currently, and am generally using Pyre or BOTF as mana demands. I just cast it with min +1 mana. My script prioritizes buffs, then TM to 5/34, then debil to 5/34, then TM to lock, then devil to lock. At that point, if everything is up and locked then it defaults to debil cast. All with a min mana threshold of 40% or it doesn't cast. I.e. if I'm not casting another spell and have at least 40% attunement then I'm casting DMRS.