Well isn't that special? 07/31/2019 12:14 AM CDT
So I just figured out why finger wagglers spam snap casts of low cost spealls at barbarians in PVP. I learned this from PVE combat keeping Serenity up in cabalists.

Whenever a spell is cast at a Barbarian it appears that Serenity fires first, causing IF loss, not after determining if the spell hits or causes damage. This means we take an IF hit from Serenity whether we actually will be hit or not. This is unacceptable. Serenity should be the LAST check in the defense against magic contest. Please look into this and fix it right away. We've already given up BMR but now we are sitting ducks against a MU that knows how to tanks us with snap casts. I've experienced this in Wyvern Trials but didn't know what I was seeing until now.

Test case for GM testers is to take a HL barb into cabalists and have MED SER up. For me, I block all damage, evade, or block every spell for hours. However with Serenity up I will lose my IF and can potentially drop my other abilities if I drop to zero IF. Not good. Please look into this!

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
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Re: Well isn't that special? 07/31/2019 02:12 AM CDT
Serenity is a potency barrier, which means it needs to be applied to a spell before the system checks that spell's potency. To have Serenity apply after the hit is determined would make it worthless--it would be lowering a number that is no longer relevant.

Since potency plays a role in accuracy (or the stat contest, for contested spells) this means that Serenity applying before the hit is checked makes the spell less likely to hit at all. If you want protection that is checked last, that's what Tenacity and Toad are for.

As for Serenity being vulnerable to spam snap casts, I think you'd be on firmer ground asking that low potency spells cause less IF loss.
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Re: Well isn't that special? 07/31/2019 05:17 PM CDT
That makes sense. I was a bit irate when I posted and didn't think it through. I'll spend some time thinking what the best proposed solution is. Thanks for the clarity!

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
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Re: Well isn't that special? 07/31/2019 11:51 PM CDT
I'm on the fence with Serenity.

On the one hand, my testing indicated it to be an exceptionally powerful potency barrier that probably needs a downside like other powerful barriers such as Aether Cloak and Ghost Shroud. On the other hand it's possible to be played around with such an easy cheese strategy, but the cheese is more a function of the game's spell-casting mechanics and how mana pools scale to high level, where min-casting a spell over and over again as fast as the game engine/RT will allow is a trivial cost at 1000+ magics (not infinitely, but well within the margins of a typical PvP fight).

I think the inner fire hit aspect should be removed completely, and the negative modifier to roars should be increased substantially, even to a point where roaring for all practical purposes is an ineffective strategy. That puts it more in line with AC, where a powerful defense has a commensurate cost to the one enjoying the barrier's protection.

I'm not sure it's a 1:1 strategy, you still have a class with a huge potency barrier that's weapons primary, but frankly I think Barbarians could use something that's a little broken in PvP. Backstab is broken, WM TM is broken. If there's one thing that should be broken in PvP for Barbarians, it's magical defense.
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