Armor Reinforcing 07/05/2011 05:58 PM CDT
Couple of things with armor reinforcing...

1. There's a typo when you study the book. The sentence about having to POUR oil on the piece has an "m" where there should be a space.

2. The book doesn't list anywhere what additional materials are needed to complete the process, and that big, unmistakable message about ASSEMBLING things doesn't come up when it's time to do it. Trying to proceed makes it reasonably obvious, but it may as well look like the rest of the system.

3. I was kinda surprised that I failed at reinforcing a dome helm (ridiculously easy piece to make) that's 70% high carbon steel and 30% oravir with 420 ranks of Mech and the appropriate techniques. Is the difficulty of reinforcing set properly? The book says it's easy to do...I also failed on a 70% medium carbon steel, 30% lead great helm. Failure does a LOT of damage to the piece, too.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/05/2011 07:06 PM CDT
>3. I was kinda surprised that I failed at reinforcing a dome helm (ridiculously easy piece to make)

I once talked to Kodius about enhancements. Basically if you fail to get masterful on every single step, due to mistaken action, low tool quality, whatever, the process fails.

>Failure does a LOT of damage to the piece, too.

It's meant to do enough damage that you can't just whip out a brush and repair it yourself.



Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
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Combat Balance Sheet:
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/05/2011 07:17 PM CDT
<<I once talked to Kodius about enhancements. Basically if you fail to get masterful on every single step, due to mistaken action, low tool quality, whatever, the process fails.>>

Even so, I'm surprised I wouldn't be performing flawlessly at such an easy task on such an easy item with so much skill, even using store-bought tools. It feels off.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/06/2011 12:39 AM CDT
Enhancement is the difficulty of the type of enhancing, plus a modifier depending on type of item you are enhancing. Essentially, a tier 3 item might become a tier 4 or 5. I'll probably relax the requirement to 95 quality, to allow for one mistake or something.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/06/2011 11:31 AM CDT
I see. After thinking a little more about my failures, I suspect that the material purity of the base items is the culprit. I keep forgetting that no amount of skill can overcome that and let you get masterful workmanship, as it's rather strange to me. I was probably using items that were crafted from unrefined storebought metals from after their purity was reduced. I'll try again on a piece that's made of refined metal when I get a chance (namely the one I tempered back when I made it)...I'm almost sure it'll succeed.

Is there any chance you could add a way to tell the actual difficulty of enhancing a specific piece? Like maybe COMPARE it to the crafting book when it's on the enhancement page or something?

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/06/2011 01:15 PM CDT
A master crafter can do wonders with common quality ingredients - specifically if you invest in th techniques that bonus ingredient quality. But it just doesn't make sense for crap metal to yield the same finished output as high quality ore.






"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/08/2011 06:01 PM CDT
Now that I've gotten it to work, the results of reinforcing seem a bit underwhelming. On a morion, weight jumped from 68 stones to 81, and there was no apparent difference in any of the protection or absorption stats, even using COMPARE. A ~20% weight increase for a protection increase that's so small as to be imperceptible by any means available doesn't seem worth doing. I did have a great helm bump up to the next range in slice and electric protection, so I know it's doing something. I did find it odd that the messaging for completing the process specifically says that absorption is increased, when it was protection that I noticed improve.

The helm on which I noticed an improvement was made of straight high carbon steel, while the morion is made lighter, using 70/30 high carbon steel/oravir.

Also, the book now lists small leather backing as the other ingredient when in fact the process calls for some leather strips.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/08/2011 06:55 PM CDT
>A ~20% weight increase for a protection increase that's so small as to be imperceptible by any means available doesn't seem worth doing.

I play a Gor'Tog who would basically just ignore the weight difference. I'd ask to have it done to all my armor. The fact that the majority of players have ignored Strength (and are likely to suffer for it soon), doesn't mean it's a poor upgrade. Just a niche one.

>I did find it odd that the messaging for completing the process specifically says that absorption is increased, when it was protection that I noticed improve.

Yea, it's a messaging error. Big K said it's supposed to be protection.



Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/08/2011 07:28 PM CDT
I think you may have interpreted my emphasis differently than I intended it...I don't care so much that it costs weight, but rather that it doesn't seem to improve protection by enough to actually make a difference in the armor's performance.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/08/2011 08:38 PM CDT
>>make a difference in the armor's performance.

Just because a difference doesn't show up as a different appraise level (some of which are equal to a 40% change in defensive properties) doesn't mean the protection isn't better.

We are butting up against the higher limit of allowable armor protection, and this is the best we can give until C3.0 allows us to adjust some things. That being said, you get NO increase to hindrance for the extra point of protection provided to all defense types. I have plans to adjust appraisal a bit more to give armor additional levels of feedback (like weapons), and that should help it show up too.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/08/2011 08:51 PM CDT
<<Just because a difference doesn't show up as a different appraise level (some of which are equal to a 40% change in defensive properties) doesn't mean the protection isn't better.>>

Yeah I get that, but the difference doesn't even show up in a comparison, which I thought gave pretty tight ranges. Aren't there several levels of protection above "great" though, anyway? Appraisal is even more messed up than I thought if it takes a huge difference in actual performance to show up and the middle of the scale corresponds to the highest allowable levels...

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
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Re: Armor Reinforcing 07/09/2011 08:54 AM CDT
Appraisal is quite messed up. I should have some new ranges in and available for testing later today.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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